It is a nice gesture. Not his fault that a bunch of crazy people camped outside his house for absolutely no reason
Of course it is, but its also a save face with your neighbors gesture. Most prople do something nice for their neighbors when they annoy the crap out of them
While I agree with just about everything you say here, I do think Lebron leaving Cleveland was handled much, much worse than Lebron leaving Miami. The decision may have been the dumbest sports PR move in the history of the world. I realize there was no great way to tell Cleveland "hey, this team and city sucks I'm going to Miami to win titles" it could have certainly been handled better. You can dump someone in a way that you can remain civil or you can burn the house down and **** someone's best friend, Lebron and his obviously inexperienced crew handled Decision 1.0 terribly. I think the fans went too far and that "Whore" book stands out as one of the most ridiculous pieces of crap ever written but I do understand why they were so upset, it was cruel to do things the way he did. The fans did handle things with no class though so I agree I just think its a situation where you can give them a grain of salt.
Miami's run was great and their 2nd and 3rd year teams were great, this past seasons team wasn't great. I'm not sure what I've written that doesn't make that pretty clear. I mean Im not dumping on their run, the team had a legendary run, I'm not sure what we are arguing about here.
The idea that championship teams can only be great is just.....it makes no sense. Apply it to anything else in the world outside sports and you will see how ridiculous a notion it is. You know the term great doesn't mean the best. They are NOT the same and to pretend they are shows an agenda.
Serious question.... Do the Heat retire #6?: A) Yes, retire it Regardless B) Only if his only titles come in Miami. C) No, 4 years is not enough D) If he wears #6 in CLE, NO. E) If he wears #23 in CLE, YES. Oddly enough, most Heat fans I talk to take "E"
C. I honestly have to say he wasn't here long enough, even if those were great years. Kind of the same reason I'm hesitant to put Ricky Williams in the Dolphins Ring of Honor. Same thing with Shaq. It wasn't a long era and he kind of burned bridges on the way out. Not sure how badly the bridges are burnt here, but I imagine his exit plays a factor.
A. Retire his number, regardless. He's the best player in Heat history (in my opinion)....4 years or not. If they can retire Jordan's 23 (who never played for them), they should retire Lebron's 6.
Jordan's number isn't retired. Anybody who wants it could wear it for the Heat and LeBron could've worn it. Riley was simply honoring Jordan for how much he meant to the NBA. Dan MArino's number is "retired" at the AAA as well yet multiple players have worn #13.
Despite Riley's love for retiring numbers, I'd say C is most likely. 4 years is not a lot of time. Had he stayed two more years, then I'd say for sure. Now, I'd say there's a chance, but I don't think it's likely. Personally, I wouldn't mind if they do because he could very well go down as the best ever, but I also wouldn't be upset if they didn't.
No. I remember Jimmy Johnson being asked about some honor or another for Bernie Kosar, and he replied, "No. Bernie didn't finish what he started." I feel the same about Lebron. Let his jersey go be retired somewhere else. I'll wait for the next great Heat #6 to make it worthy. EDIT: And, BTW, I feel the same about retiring Michael Jordan's number on a Heat uni. Ridiculous.
If Jordan led Washington to 4 straight finals and won MVPs for them, then yeah, he should be considered the greatest Wizard/Bullet of all time.
oh, my fault. i've never seen 23 worn by a heat since it went to the rafters. feels like it was retired.
If you read about Riley's "forever men" and his overall philosophy, it seems pretty clear that he would not be in favor of retiring LJ's number. Of course, Riley will be long gone by the time this becomes an actual issue when LJ retires in 10 years or so, so sentiment could change. If the Heat never win another title or even come close in that time period, nostalgia could take over with a desire to keep honoring that "golden age" the same way the Phins keep trotting out the '72 team. But to me, LJ has forfeited that ultimate honor. He ran out the first door, as Riley said.
It may not be regularly assigned but I'm pretty sure any player of any stature could wear it if they wanted to. Including LeBron. Although part of the LJ/Riley history is supposedly Riley and LJ talked before a Heat/Cavs game in 2008 or 2009 and Riley convinced him to change his number since he should take his own path and leave 23 for Jordan.
C Though obviously the greatest four year stretch....I don't believe it is even the stretch that defines Heat history or was most important to the franchise. It would be akin to Wade Boggs going into the HOF as a Tampa Bay player. Lebron was obviously amazing but those titles were full team efforts. Appreciate what Lebron provided us but I can't say it was enough to put his number off limits forever.
There will be other ways to honor this group. But LJ walked out in the middle of a great run. It wasn't over until he decided it was over. His choice obviously, but that choice comes with consequences to his Heat legacy, one of which is forfeiting his right to the ultimate honor of a number retirement.
Wizards/Bullets had other guys that were just as accomplished and with longer careers too. So do the Heat. and of course..if you asked 100 random NBA fans on the street..who is the greatest Heat player of all-time..about 99 of them would say Wade.
Chris Bosh will absolutely have his number retired. Presuming he plays here the entirety of his next contract, that's nine years with at least 4 Finals and 2 titles. 100% in the rafters
What Wizard/Bullet can say they led a team to 4 finals, won 2 chips, and won MVPs? Also, you're probably right that most think Wade is the greatest Heat of all time. Okay, let's say you're right. What other Heat has accomplished more than Lebron did as a member of the Heat? In 4 short years, he's already done more than Zo or Timmy.
No doubt he had help...but, you can't dispute that he led the way. All great players have help. Leaders get the most blame and the most credit though.
I was just going to say, I'd bet Bosh's number gets retired, though. I don't know that I'd call it 100% because we'll have to see what happens, but he's probably going to be a HOFer and will do so spending most of his career in Miami along with at least 2 championships. That certainly seems like it'd fit the criteria.
I think it's really a tough call. I wouldn't compare it to the Jordan/Wizards situation at all. Nor does it fit comparison to the Shaq/Heat situation. Neither of those guys were playing their best basketball when they played for that team. They were not the same caliber player that goes into the Hall of Fame. When LeBron James was with the Miami Heat, he was the best basketball player in the world. It was a moniker that was used to describe him constantly. I don't remember that moniker being used much in Cleveland. I thought he was better in Miami than he was in Cleveland, and just to be one hundred percent truthful I think he will have been better in Miami than he will be at any point of his second stint with Cleveland too. So let's fast forward a bit. Let's say you've got a situation where LeBron James (who may be the best basketball player of all time) played the best basketball of his career with the Miami Heat. And let's say you've got a situation where the Miami Heat played the best basketball of its own franchise history with LeBron James. At that point, even if the stint was short...you have to commemorate that. You really do. And if retiring the jersey is the way you generally commemorate such things, I think that's probably the way you have to go. And I can understand Option E because you don't want a situation where two franchises are trying to retire the same jersey.
Hard to say..it's 4 years. if we don't care about service..then he can be #1, but service comes into play when going "all-time great". Just like nobody will ever say that Barkley and Drexler are all-time Rocket greats. The Miami Heat mount Rushmore is: Riley, Wade, ZO, and Micky Arison
Barkley won nothing for the Rockets. If anything, he stole money and he will admit that, lol. Drexler is one of the greatest Rockets of all time. It's about accomplishments, not service. Drexler works for the Rockets network, by the way. He is loved down here.
Tim Hardaway played for the Heat for 5 1/3 seasons and his number is retired, so C is a tough argument. LeBron was a 2-time MVP, the best player on a 2-time champion, 4-Finals appearance team with a chance to be the best player ever and spent his prime with the Heat - I think they have to retire it.
I agree. What's wrong with being a great Blazer and a great Rocket? You can be both. He was just great, period.
I think maybe the emotions are still fresh. But let me compare it to a similar situation. Paul Warfield. He was with the Cleveland Browns from 1964 to 1969, after having played locally at Ohio State University. He was a 1st round pick of theirs. He went to three pro bowls, including as a rookie. During his time in Cleveland he averaged 863 yards and 9 TDs per season. He was pretty damn good. But in 1970 he was traded to the Miami Dolphins...where he became a multiple CHAMPION and a multiple ALL PRO. The Dolphins achieved things during that stint that survive as "special" in NFL history to this day. And Paul Warfield achieved things during that stint that made him a HALL OF FAME player. But in 1974 after winning the Super Bowl with the Dolphins...he, Larry Csonka and Jim Kiick left the Miami Dolphins high and dry for what they considered greener, more lucrative pastures with the Toronto Northmen of the World Football League (which lated moved to Memphis). You don't think there were bad feelings about that, back then? I'm quite positive there were. By 1976 he was back in the NFL playing for, who? You guessed it. The Cleveland Browns. He went back home. He was never the same player again that he was in Miami. But clearly he still felt a connection with Cleveland and so he went back there. And when he retired he worked in Cleveland as a sportscaster for a few years, then I believe he worked in the Browns front office. Paul Warfield is in the Miami Dolphins Honor Roll. As he should be.
Hardaway has also spent another 10 years with the Heat organization on and off, and now works in the front office.
