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****The Official 2014-15 NBA Thread****

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by schmolioot, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    There are plenty of teams who can counter Lebron without Durant. Where do you get this idea that Durant is the only counter to Lebron in NBA?
     
  2. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It was more of a statement that they need another franchise player, I never said anything about Durant being the only counter, I'm not sure where you got that from at all.
     
    TooGoodForDez likes this.
  3. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    When did that happen?
     
  4. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have no idea what team she's a fan of. I don't generally focus on characterizing people into "us vs. them". I value sound information. I just don't find your information sound. I didn't attack you about it, I just posted a different opinion. You're the one who pretends everybody who doesn't agree has an agenda or doesn't follow basketball. When she called you on it, you didn't even deny it. You just tried to justify it several ways, "people don't get my humor", "you took one post out of context" and "some Heat fans are so arrogant" (so apparently it's okay to be a D-bag to all Heat fans?). In the end regardless of what justification you use, you're still just being a D-bag. So I'll take your advice and put you on ignore, not b/c I care whether or not you're right, but b/c I don't care to waste reading the opinions of somebody trying to be a D-bag to others no matter how justified he feels he is.
     
    NaboCane likes this.
  6. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    For such an upstanding poster you sure do like throwing around sugar coated stories and a few insults. I will refrain from doing the same and move on. Again...that ignore option....it's there for you.

    It's been 4 years of over the top arrogance, people being called haters and trolls etc....now the shoe is on the other foot and many just can't handle it. You wanna read "D-Bag" go back through four years of Heat fan (SOME NOT ALL) posts, then pretend YOU are not a Heat fan, then maybe you can look at things with an open mind. If not? Ignore
     
  7. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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  8. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Young....don't win. Period. Ever.
     
    Boik14 likes this.
  9. Desides

    Desides Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No one's singling you out, or including you in the bad apple group, don't worry.
     
  10. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would give them a good shot at getting through the East but winning against whoever makes it out of the West? I think they need another vet and probably a year or two of playing together. I think the Cavs and Lebron are looking at the longterm, people expect them to be a contender but no one is penciling them in for a title yet.
     
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  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lololo
     
  12. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that team makes it through an even unhealthy Bulls team. Their dynamic is going to be terrible off the bat. I'm sure they get it going during the regular season but they will flounder in the playoffs.
     
  13. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Vegas has Cleveland at 4-1 to win it all.

    Fun fact: Knicks at 60-1, Heat at 75-1

    http://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/futures/

    Vegas is smarter than all of us X2, they have Cleveland as the favorite. Says a lot. NY teams are always bad odds by comparison due to the high volume of bets they get. I'm sure that why Knicks are less of a longshot than the Heat.
     
  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Those are a week old. Heat was 25-1 last I checked.

    And it's not do much that Vegas knows what the results will be, but they are great at figuring out lines that encourage bettors.

    Futures odds is just a guess. Game lines have far more research into them
     
  15. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Vegas gets max info on every line they put out, you're right about enticing bettors though. Either way, it's obvious they think Cleveland is a championship contender, let alone a "top team in the east"
     
  16. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Its called HYPE. And right now the ONLY thing its doing is encouraging bettors. And rightfully so. Man i pray the season starts like this with people expecting CLE to be a championship team and the Heat to be garbage.. Would make this season beyond entertaining.
     
  17. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Win share analytics has been shown to be far more accurate at predicting futures outcomes probably b/c they're just objective analysis rather than attempts to influence or capitalize on bettor emotions.

    IMO 18/1 - 25/1 is about where the Heat should be. That's the range I've seen here in Nevada. But the last link I saw still had Indiana at 18/1 which I think is way too high. The loss of Stephenson will hurt them quite a bit. By the end of the season George's inconsistency had made Stephenson their #1 offensive option. They had become a poor defensive team (except for the few games where Hibbert showed up) and poor offensive team outside of Stephenson and George. With Stephenson gone George would have be on Lebron's level to give them a chance most nights, which isn't going to happen. I think they're best hope is Hibbert's defensive revival. And by "best" hope I mean "not good at all". With reports that they're trying to trade Hibbert I don't think they even see that as likely.

    Chicago should have the best odds to come out of the East. There are question marks with Rose's health and whether Gasol is a good fit for them. I think he may struggle in their defensive system. And I doubt he'll provide the minutes their coach demanded of Boozer. While I like what Gasol brings offensively, it may be limited. Either he'll play few minutes all season or he'll be worn down by playoff time. And he may be a defensive liability that will mute his net offensive impact.

    Cleveland I believe is currently way over rated. They're simply a young, immature team in terms of coach and key starters. And they've been a very dysfunctional organization that's relying on Lebron and his entourage to change the culture. Reality is that betting on a young, immature team to win is betting on something happening that has never happened before. They'll win a ton of games just on Lebron's ability and consistency, but Kyrie (whom I like) is still a couple of years away from providing near enough support for any chance of a championship. Thinking Wiggins or any rookie will be that third guy in year 1 is a fool's bet and no other starter is worth mentioning. Love would provide more than Wiggins in the short term. His rebounding and and scoring would more than off-set his defensive short-comings, but it would also handcuff their bench for years. A bench that I see as too thin too provide much support as it is. The Cavs have to battle the handicap of being located in Cleveland. They'll either wait and hope for Kyrie and Wiggins to develop and not be good enough to win it all, before they most likely leave or they'll trade for Love and be better in the short-term but still not be good enough to win it all (kind of like the Lakers with Kobe and Gasol's crippling contracts since 2010). All in all though, Cleveland is relevant again so fans there should be happy. I don't like their odds of ever getting Lebron a title there, but the team will be exciting.
     
  18. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess if Rose is 100%, I don't think they are all that great. The Wizards dominated the Bulls.....the Wizards....and I'm a Wizards fan. I understand Rose is obviously a great player when healthy but if Rose is at 75% they are still a 2nd round and out team. They aren't a serious contender to me until Rose shows that he can play at an MVP type level and that is wishful to say the least.
     
  19. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    If healthy (a big if), Varejao is still worth mentioning. It is possible that Waiters and Thompson playing with Lebron (and therefore falling one spot down the pecking order in regards to opponents' focus) and just their offseason development could make them worth mentioning as well. Thompson (IMO) has been on the cusp of being a good NBA player the past two years (right now I would say he is average), and if he can get his jump shot developed further then he will be good. Waiters' problem is strictly shot selection IMO as well as being a victim of lack of calls at the rim (whereas someone like Harden gets way more than his fair share).

    But, if Cleveland is currently viewed as the favorite for the title, then yes I think they are overrated.
     
  20. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not as high on the other starters as you are. I basically see them as net negatives against most other teams. I think that you'll need Lebron or somebody else to not just out-produce their opponent, but out-produce them by more than those other guys are being out-produced by their guys. As great as Lebron is I think that's a heavy burden. He's obviously done just that in the past, but IMO this team with those other starters, young starters and a thin bench will ask him to do more on most nights than he had to do in Miami or even what he had to do when he took Cleveland to the finals that one year. On a team with great chemistry you can end up with a case of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect that from a young team that doesn't have much of experience playing together. We'll see how it works out of course, but I wouldn't consider them the favorite. They were listed as such by those Vegas odds that the Sun-sentinel posted, but I see that as over-rated. I think the win-share data is more predictive and I believe they have Cleveland about third. But I also think that you have wild-cards in Washington, Toronto, Atlanta and Charlotte. I could make arguments for any of those teams to out-perform their expected seed just like I could make arguments for any of the top three to under-perform their expectations. Basically I see the East as pretty wide-open. If I were to rank the most likely outcomes, I would rate the odds of a team with more veteran starters coming together and making a title run as much higher than those of a young team doing the same.
     
  21. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    FACT: Never in the history of the NBA has more win shares, wins produced, and total Eff. Points been produced by the 2nd and 3rd best players on a pro basketball team.

    In short..Lebron James had a better supporting cast than Magic, Jordan and Bird

    THAT is the needle he has to thread. He Better trade for Love. It is his only shot at a title in Cleveland.
     
    eltos_lightfoot likes this.
  22. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Kevin Love's phone beeps; he looks at the screen. "305?"

    "Hello?"

    "Kevin?" The voice of Pat Riley makes Love instinctively weak in the knees; he sits. "Yes. Hi, Coa..." Whatever he was going to say with a quiver in his voice is cut short by the calm, almost mellifluous voice on the other end.

    "Listen carefully—don't miss a word. You'll only hear it once."

    "Umm...ahh..."

    You go to Cleveland, I make your wife a widow."

    "Wh...wh..."

    "Got that?"

    "Y...yes."

    The line goes dead before he even finishes. Love's hands are shaking badly; he drops his phone. He steps on it without even feeling it crunch underfoot as he goes into the other room, where his management team is gathered. They all look up to see the very tall man with the chalk-white face and the greenish tint around his lips.

    Kevin Love clears his throat; "You make a deal to put me in Cleveland, and I make all your wives widows."
     
  23. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Humphries is a nice piece for the Wizards. They keep getting better, even if it's only by increments; they could be the fly in the ointment next May.
     
  24. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Heats team was really bad outside of Wade, Bosh and Lebron, maybe in the regular season and some of the playoff series they were good, but they were all embarrassed by the Spurs. Maybe it was just a 5 game anomaly but saying the Heats' supporting cast was better than some of the greatest teams ever is kind of a stretch. I guess the question is whether you think Lebron is better than Bird, Magic or Jordan, I think the jury is still out on that one, he has a ways to go IMO.
     
  25. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you're under rating how good that Spurs team was. I don't think it makes much sense to say they were good in the regular season and playoffs, but then throw all that out and focus on that five game stretch as dis-positive.
     
  26. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    How is it a stretch. It is based on regular season numbers of every NBA team through every season in history. It's not a stretch at all. It's like a team in the MLB setting a record for combined batting average and then saying it's a stretch to say that there were the best hitting (average wise) team in MLB history.

    It's a fact that proves a further fact. Not a stretch by any means.
     
  27. Desides

    Desides Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It makes perfect sense… if you had never watched a Heat game prior to the Finals.

    I think that's the real discrepancy here.
     
    rafael likes this.
  28. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    I used the word "fact" for a reason.

    I am perfectly fine with giving my opinion.


    Understand...this team performed well enough around lebron to win Three in a row going into this last Spurs series.( Lebron cost us the Mavs series)

    Now, if you are going to willingly dismiss the previous 15 series and care only about the last three games if the 16th...then i have nothing to say.
     
  29. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Its as if Mario Chalmers didnt have a 14 PER.

    And he was the 5th-6th best player on some of these teams.
     
  30. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Spurs team was great this year, no doubt about that. But how do you place a team in the area of greatness when they get demolished in a Finals series? I get regular season stat comparisons but what do they really matter when you end up in 2nd place and not even competitive in the Finals? You can't be considered a great team at that point, you just can't.
     
  31. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know it was all Lebrons fault. God you guys are amazing, you turned on a guy that gave you a legendary run, I mean seriously. I get the regular season number comparisons and they are fair but what does that matter when you get hammered in the Finals? I mean I'd rather have a crappy regular season slide in at #8 squeak out a title then have a legendary regular season and lose in the Finals in embarrassing fashion, stats or not.
     
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  32. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't live in Miami so I don't watch the regular season games outside of TNT/Espn games, etc. But I did watch probably 90% of their playoff games, the team does interest me even though I'm a Wizards fan. And if you ever read anything I posted about them I don't trash the team outside of their performance against the Spurs, they had a legendary run. You're frankly on the troll level here.
     
  33. Desides

    Desides Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The irony is strong with this one, especially considering the post you made prior to this.

    Describing the Heat team as "really bad outside of" the Big 3 is wildly inaccurate. This is like describing the Jets as a Super Bowl contender.
     
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  34. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Aren't you considered a great team if you make it to 4 consecutive finals and win two of them? I think you'd have to be. It seems like you want to forget everything this team has done outside of the one series against a team you admitted was great. That seems awfully selective or at a minimum just being a prisoner of the moment.
     
  35. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Shoutout to my young Rockets. We're in the Summer League championship. D-Mo and Canaan getting it done.

    By the way, the Heat should've kept PJ Hairston...that kid can ball.
     
  36. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    It'd be great if we did have the pieces to put something together for Smith. He would be a great get at this point. We just don't, though.
     
  37. TiP54

    TiP54 Bad Reputation

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    Live from the Internet.

    Wait, FFS72 is Stugotz? It all makes sense now...
     
  38. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Ehhhh no thanks on JR. Hes fun to watch on others teams, not your own.
     
  39. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    That moment when you realize your team has fallen from grace. (Wish we could get JR Smith)
     
  40. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    He's the only one trust me. :lol:

    JR is fun to watch when he plays for someone else and you don't care about his major short comings.
     
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