The Official 2013 MLB Post Season Thread

"LiferYank wrote:

What do you think is possible/ you would like to see.

It was obvious they need another bat around Longoria... Myers i think will be great be he isnt yet....

Myers was still really good this year.

To be honest, at this moment. I don't have the slightest idea of what's possible. I haven't looked at possible destinations and what they have to offer. What I would like to see is a package similar to what Rays got for Shields. Rays also gave up Wade Davis in that deal though, but Price is a better talent then Shields. A top ML ready hitter, like a Taveras, another good prospect, or a couple mid level prospects as well.

I am in the minority with what I BELIEVE will happen however. I think unless the Rays are blown away(Shields type haul), I think the Rays keep him. Rays value pitchers to the max. They, before the Shields trade, refuse to trade or get rid of pitchers, even with more then enough depth. Their view was, you can never have enough.

With Moore not being consistent yet, and Cobb in his first dominate season with the Rays, I think they will be reluctant to get rid of their ace just yet. They have no problem paying him really good money for one year. They did the exact same thing with Shields. Paid him 15 mil the last year with us, then trade him after that season. I could see the same blue print being used here. But like I said, I'm in the minority.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

I have to agree. Hitting was a real concern here. Our best/2nd best hitter(Myers is that good), had 2 infield singles in the series. Zobrist struggled. We have some great pieces, definitely need to add to that if they plan on competing for a championship.

Maddon's claim was because Moore wasn't a reliever, he didn't know how long he would successful in that role. Which makes no sense to me. I think he simply outsmarted himself in this series.

He never said anything about Archer, I cant only help but think that he just didn't trust archer. But then he brings him in a very tough and stressful situation later in the game?

A lot of what he did this series made no sense. I've always thought his actual game management was a tad over rated. But he certainly pushes the right buttons with the players. So you take the good with the, not so good.

Yeah the Sox pitching did a really nice job of really attacking Myers with fastballs in and getting him to chase off speed stuff away. If you're looking for the goat of the series it probably goes to either him or Price. You can't have your 2nd best hitter going 1-16 in the series. It was strange because outside of the play in RF, Myers never looked nervous or had the deer in head lights look.

To be honest with you, and obviously you'd know this better then me, I do remember Maddon having a poor 2008 WS but don't remember how he did in the other series before or after. But his explanation for Moore doesn't make sure to me. If that was me you have to ride Moore until he looks like he's gassed or in trouble. He looked fine to me. You're right I think he just outsmarted himself.

You may very well be right with his thoughts on Archer but I can't kill him for bringing him in against Pedroia in the 9th, it was obvious Rodney had nothing and couldn't find the plate. You can't have someone like that pitching with the bases loaded with a good contact/patient hitter up.

My thoughts on Maddon is he is absolutely a great clubhouse manager and does a great job managing individuals. Like Escobar for example, who had issues with the two teams he was on but it seems like Maddon got him under control. I can't speak for his in game stuff because usually the only TB games I watch is when they play the Sox, Yankees or are on national TV. But it does seem like at times he tries to be too cute with moves or does outsmart himself.

"LiferYank wrote:

Price for Taveras? Price for Castallanos ( spelling??) Might as well get the crystal balls out and hazard a guess.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

I doubt either would happen. Castellanos isn't our type of player, and I don't think he's that great anyways. And I don't think the Cards would be interested. Although I certainly would be for Taveras.

I think trading Price for Castellanos would be selling Price incredibly low. I don't think Castellanos is that type of impact prospect. The Rays should be targeting at least top 5 prospect so you're talking about a Tavares, Bogaerts, Profor, Yelich, Lindor, Buxton, Sano type and then a couple of lesser prospects. Basically the return they got for James Shields is a perfect example.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

Myers was still really good this year.

To be honest, at this moment. I don't have the slightest idea of what's possible. I haven't looked at possible destinations and what they have to offer. What I would like to see is a package similar to what Rays got for Shields. Rays also gave up Wade Davis in that deal though, but Price is a better talent then Shields. A top ML ready hitter, like a Taveras, another good prospect, or a couple mid level prospects as well.

I am in the minority with what I BELIEVE will happen however. I think unless the Rays are blown away(Shields type haul), I think the Rays keep him. Rays value pitchers to the max. They, before the Shields trade, refuse to trade or get rid of pitchers, even with more then enough depth. Their view was, you can never have enough.

With Moore not being consistent yet, and Cobb in his first dominate season with the Rays, I think they will be reluctant to get rid of their ace just yet. They have no problem paying him really good money for one year. They did the exact same thing with Shields. Paid him 15 mil the last year with us, then trade him after that season. I could see the same blue print being used here. But like I said, I'm in the minority.

Shields made 7 million. Price will probably get 12 in arb. Big difference for a team with that small of a payroll although the Rays barely have anything commited to next year. It would not surprise me if a team like the Rangers would go all in for price. Not sure how that match up though. With Profar being pretty bleh this year it would take alot with him to land price. A team that is close like the Braves get desperate specially with their lack of playoff success lately. The Tigers owner is desperate for a ring and he isnt exactly young. If Price is made avaible i think he is gone for quite a bit.

Dont forget they got Archer and Lee for Garza.. Garza and Shields being traded worked out well for them i cant see them keeping Price with what they got for the previous two trades..

"Nappy Roots wrote:

Myers was still really good this year.

To be honest, at this moment. I don't have the slightest idea of what's possible. I haven't looked at possible destinations and what they have to offer. What I would like to see is a package similar to what Rays got for Shields. Rays also gave up Wade Davis in that deal though, but Price is a better talent then Shields. A top ML ready hitter, like a Taveras, another good prospect, or a couple mid level prospects as well.

I am in the minority with what I BELIEVE will happen however. I think unless the Rays are blown away(Shields type haul), I think the Rays keep him. Rays value pitchers to the max. They, before the Shields trade, refuse to trade or get rid of pitchers, even with more then enough depth. Their view was, you can never have enough.

With Moore not being consistent yet, and Cobb in his first dominate season with the Rays, I think they will be reluctant to get rid of their ace just yet. They have no problem paying him really good money for one year. They did the exact same thing with Shields. Paid him 15 mil the last year with us, then trade him after that season. I could see the same blue print being used here. But like I said, I'm in the minority.

See I think it's kind of the opposite in that the Rays have never been afraid of trading away pitching (Shields, Garza, Kazmir, Davis) since they always have replacement arms in the minors ready to step in but they tend to keep their hitters (Upton, Crawford).

Interesting comments from Maddon about Hellickson:

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/10/09/joe-maddon-explains-why-the-quick-hook-for-jeremy-hellickson/

His plan was to get Hellickson to get through the order at least once and possibly until the 2nd time Ortiz came up, then he would have gone to Torres.

Again seems kind of strange to have a pitcher going in an elimination game that you hoped would give you 3 or so innings. Was Archer really that bad of an alternative option?

"Nappy Roots wrote:

Myers was still really good this year.

To be honest, at this moment. I don't have the slightest idea of what's possible. I haven't looked at possible destinations and what they have to offer. What I would like to see is a package similar to what Rays got for Shields. Rays also gave up Wade Davis in that deal though, but Price is a better talent then Shields. A top ML ready hitter, like a Taveras, another good prospect, or a couple mid level prospects as well.

I am in the minority with what I BELIEVE will happen however. I think unless the Rays are blown away(Shields type haul), I think the Rays keep him. Rays value pitchers to the max. They, before the Shields trade, refuse to trade or get rid of pitchers, even with more then enough depth. Their view was, you can never have enough.

With Moore not being consistent yet, and Cobb in his first dominate season with the Rays, I think they will be reluctant to get rid of their ace just yet. They have no problem paying him really good money for one year. They did the exact same thing with Shields. Paid him 15 mil the last year with us, then trade him after that season. I could see the same blue print being used here. But like I said, I'm in the minority.

Thats the thing, if they trade Price.....Moore is your #1, followed by Cobb and Archer....not bad by any means but I would be a little nervous....

However that being said you make the deal as it comes IMO.....if the haul is grand and you dont want to do it because you are afraid of you rotation being thin, IMO that isnt an excuse to not make that deal...you have to make that deal and hope the pieces develop as per your research...

"LiferYank wrote:

Shields made 7 million. Price will probably get 12 in arb. Big difference for a team with that small of a payroll although the Rays barely have anything commited to next year. It would not surprise me if a team like the Rangers would go all in for price. Not sure how that match up though. With Profar being pretty bleh this year it would take alot with him to land price. A team that is close like the Braves get desperate specially with their lack of playoff success lately. The Tigers owner is desperate for a ring and he isnt exactly young. If Price is made avaible i think he is gone for quite a bit.

Dont forget they got Archer and Lee for Garza.. Garza and Shields being traded worked out well for them i cant see them keeping Price with what they got for the previous two trades..

Shields made 15 mil last year.

"Ray Finkle wrote:

See I think it's kind of the opposite in that the Rays have never been afraid of trading away pitching (Shields, Garza, Kazmir, Davis) since they always have replacement arms in the minors ready to step in but they tend to keep their hitters (Upton, Crawford).

Kazmir was done and a dump off. Shields and Davis was really the first time they showed they would trade pitching for hitting. They traded Garza, but that was kind of a different story. They had like 7 major league ready arms.

"finyank13 wrote:

Thats the thing, if they trade Price.....Moore is your #1, followed by Cobb and Archer....not bad by any means but I would be a little nervous....

However that being said you make the deal as it comes IMO.....if the haul is grand and you dont want to do it because you are afraid of you rotation being thin, IMO that isnt an excuse to not make that deal...you have to make that deal and hope the pieces develop as per your research...

I would expect Hellickson to bounce back, I would hope at least. He was a damn good pitcher before this year. But your top 4 starters being Cobb, Moore, Archer and a bounced back Hellickson is pretty damn good.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

Kazmir was done and a dump off. Shields and Davis was really the first time they showed they would trade pitching for hitting. They traded Garza, but that was kind of a different story. They had like 7 major league ready arms.

True with Kazmir it was the beginning of the end with him. The Garza trade, whether they had depth or not, was a very good trade though. I think we can all agree that the Rays are starting to become like the Braves of the 90s or Oakland of the early 2000s where if they're trading players they're ultimately going to "win" the trade because they know exactly when the right time to trade them is.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

I would expect Hellickson to bounce back, I would hope at least. He was a damn good pitcher before this year. But your top 4 starters being Cobb, Moore, Archer and a bounced back Hellickson is pretty damn good.

A rotation of Cobb, Moore, Archer and Hellickson while good seems a bit underwhelming to me. Granted teams can do a lot worse but I don't know maybe it's just because I'm so used to seeing clear front line stuff with Price, Shields, Garza etc.

"Ray Finkle wrote:

True with Kazmir it was the beginning of the end with him. The Garza trade, whether they had depth or not, was a very good trade though. I think we can all agree that the Rays are starting to become like the Braves of the 90s or Oakland of the early 2000s where if they're trading players they're ultimately going to "win" the trade because they know exactly when the right time to trade them is.

A rotation of Cobb, Moore, Archer and Hellickson while good seems a bit underwhelming to me. Granted teams can do a lot worse but I don't know maybe it's just because I'm so used to seeing clear front line stuff with Price, Shields, Garza etc.

While I certainly don't think we have a Price among them. Cobb is a lot like Shields. He has the stuff and the command. Moore has the potential to be a price, if he can be consistent. And I think Archer could be better then Garza. Now there are a couple ifs and could bes in there, and that's why I don't think they will trade him. But they could certainly go with those 4 and come out as one of the top rotations again next season.

By the way. With the Garza trade, I meant we had to many arms, we had to make a trade. Not that we just had depth. We had to trade someone. And garza was the oldest and most expensive. And he wasn't the best.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

While I certainly don't think we have a Price among them. Cobb is a lot like Shields. He has the stuff and the command. Moore has the potential to be a price, if he can be consistent. And I think Archer could be better then Garza. Now there are a couple ifs and could bes in there, and that's why I don't think they will trade him. But they could certainly go with those 4 and come out as one of the top rotations again next season.

By the way. With the Garza trade, I meant we had to many arms, we had to make a trade. Not that we just had depth. We had to trade someone. And garza was the oldest and most expensive. And he wasn't the best.

I like Moore and Cobb a lot. I think both guys can be solid #2s with Moore having ace potential if, like you said, he can get better command and control. I need to see more of Archer. Hellickson, I think is what he is. Again not trying to put those 4 guys down because I think they could be one of the better staffs in baseball again but I could also see them being middle of the pack too because there are a lot of questions with them, assuming Price of course is dealt.

I also think injury risks were another reason why they wanted to trade him sooner rather than later, which again was the smart move.

"Ray Finkle wrote:

I like Moore and Cobb a lot. I think both guys can be solid #2s with Moore having ace potential if, like you said, he can get better command and control. I need to see more of Archer. Hellickson, I think is what he is. Again not trying to put those 4 guys down because I think they could be one of the better staffs in baseball again but I could also see them being middle of the pack too because there are a lot of questions with them, assuming Price of course is dealt.

I also think injury risks were another reason why they wanted to trade him sooner rather than later, which again was the smart move.

Ah yes. I did forget about them being weary of injuries with him. Your right.

Also, I think we can both agree on those 4 in the rays rotation for next year. It could easily be another top of the league rotation, but could also be a middle of the road rotation. Which is the main reason I think they will keep Price one more year. Just to see how Hellickson bounces back, how Moore improves and how Archer will do in his first full year.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

Ah yes. I did forget about them being weary of injuries with him. Your right.

Also, I think we can both agree on those 4 in the rays rotation for next year. It could easily be another top of the league rotation, but could also be a middle of the road rotation. Which is the main reason I think they will keep Price one more year. Just to see how Hellickson bounces back, how Moore improves and how Archer will do in his first full year.

Agreed on everything you said but Price. Only because I have no freaking idea on whether he will or won't be traded. I don't think the Rays themselves know either yet. But if I'm a team that is seriously considering traded for Price, I'm calling TB today and seeing what they want.

"Ray Finkle wrote:

Agreed on everything you said but Price. Only because I have no freaking idea on whether he will or won't be traded. I don't think the Rays themselves know either yet. But if I'm a team that is seriously considering traded for Price, I'm calling TB today and seeing what they want.

Why today though? Wouldn't the price for Price be higher right now? Pardon the pun.

"finyank13 wrote:

Why today though? Wouldn't the price for Price be higher right now? Pardon the pun.

When would it be lower?

"Nappy Roots wrote:

When would it be lower?

Trade deadline of his walk year no?

"finyank13 wrote:

Trade deadline of his walk year no?

That's not for a couple years. And I think trade deadline his value would probably be at an all time low. Also, TB and Texas. Only 2 teams in baseball to win 90 games the past 4 years. I don't see Tampa going anywhere. So it's unlikely they would be sellers at the trade deadline. Although it's possible.

"finyank13 wrote:

Why today though? Wouldn't the price for Price be higher right now? Pardon the pun.

Because right now you already have 6 teams not even thinking about next year right now and you try to get the deal done as quickly as possible so you're not fighting with other teams and having the asking price go up due to lack of leverage, plus it would then help your team in terms of planning for the rest of the offseason. Plus I'd be hoping that the Rays FO would be emotional due to just being eliminated from the playoffs and perhaps they let their emotions do the talking instead of their heads.

Of course TB would be foolish to jump right into it without talking to each team first but I would at least open up the lines of communication and start to lay the ground work and see if it's even a possibly that you could match up to what TB wants. If you can't, you know that and move on and start differently.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

That's not for a couple years. And I think trade deadline his value would probably be at an all time high. Also, TB and Texas. Only 2 teams in baseball to win 90 games the past 4 years. I don't see Tampa going anywhere. So it's unlikely they would be sellers at the trade deadline. Although it's possible.

Completely disagree. The best value/package TB can get for Price would be to trade him this offseason, that way the team getting him would have two years of control before he becomes a FA and have the possible draft pick tied to him. Worst time would be the trade deadline on the last year of his contract due to the lack of control and no draft pick. Plus an in season trade would lessen the number of teams in the playoff race that would be an option for TB.

Teams really value both years of control and draft pick.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

That's not for a couple years. And I think trade deadline his value would probably be at an all time high. Also, TB and Texas. Only 2 teams in baseball to win 90 games the past 4 years. I don't see Tampa going anywhere. So it's unlikely they would be sellers at the trade deadline. Although it's possible.

While I agree, you think they are going to risk going into free agency with just a compensatory pick coming back? Thats why many teams at the deadline walk year could simply be like "fine you have to pay him then"......Other teams will most certainly have leverage then....

"Ray Finkle wrote:

Completely disagree. The best value/package TB can get for Price would be to trade him this offseason, that way the team getting him would have two years of control before he becomes a FA and have the possible draft pick tied to him. Worst time would be the trade deadline on the last year of his contract due to the lack of control and no draft pick. Plus an in season trade would lessen the number of teams in the playoff race that would be an option for TB.

Teams really value both years of control and draft pick.

You disagree with me? You pretty much repeated everything I just said. Lol I'm confused.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

You disagree with me? You pretty much repeated everything I just said. Lol I'm confused.

Oops. I see what happen. I said his value would be at an all time high for the trade deadline. I meant, an all time low.

"Nappy Roots wrote:

Shields made 15 mil last year.

• 4 years/$11.25M (2008-11), plus 2012-14 club options

  • signed extension with Tampa Bay 1/23/08

  • 08:$1M, 09:$1.5M, 10:$2.5M, 11:$4.25M, 12:$7M club option ($2M buyout), 13:$9M club option ($1.5M buyout), 14:$12M club option ($1M buyout)

  • value of 2012-14 club options may increase package to $38M

  • performance bonuses based on innings pitched, starts, and Cy Young voting may increase package to $44M

  • assignment bonus of $0.75M if traded

  • Tampa Bay exercised $7M option for 2012 10/31/11

  • 2012 salary increased by $0.5M to $7.5M with top 5 finish in 2011 Cy Young vote

  • 2013 option increased by $1.25M to $10.25M with escalators

  • 2014 option increased to about $13.5M with escalators

  • Tampa Bay exercised 2013 option at $10.25M 10/30/12

  • acquired by Kansas City in trade from Tampa Bay 12/9/12