1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The Official 2013 MLB Post Season Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Ray Finkle, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Interesting comments from Maddon about Hellickson:

    http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/bo...ins-why-the-quick-hook-for-jeremy-hellickson/

    His plan was to get Hellickson to get through the order at least once and possibly until the 2nd time Ortiz came up, then he would have gone to Torres.

    Again seems kind of strange to have a pitcher going in an elimination game that you hoped would give you 3 or so innings. Was Archer really that bad of an alternative option?
     
  2. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

    30,774
    5,433
    113
    Jan 6, 2010
    Thats the thing, if they trade Price.....Moore is your #1, followed by Cobb and Archer....not bad by any means but I would be a little nervous....

    However that being said you make the deal as it comes IMO.....if the haul is grand and you dont want to do it because you are afraid of you rotation being thin, IMO that isnt an excuse to not make that deal...you have to make that deal and hope the pieces develop as per your research...
     
  3. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    Shields made 15 mil last year.
     
  4. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL
    Kazmir was done and a dump off. Shields and Davis was really the first time they showed they would trade pitching for hitting. They traded Garza, but that was kind of a different story. They had like 7 major league ready arms.
     
  5. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    I would expect Hellickson to bounce back, I would hope at least. He was a damn good pitcher before this year. But your top 4 starters being Cobb, Moore, Archer and a bounced back Hellickson is pretty damn good.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    True with Kazmir it was the beginning of the end with him. The Garza trade, whether they had depth or not, was a very good trade though. I think we can all agree that the Rays are starting to become like the Braves of the 90s or Oakland of the early 2000s where if they're trading players they're ultimately going to "win" the trade because they know exactly when the right time to trade them is.

    A rotation of Cobb, Moore, Archer and Hellickson while good seems a bit underwhelming to me. Granted teams can do a lot worse but I don't know maybe it's just because I'm so used to seeing clear front line stuff with Price, Shields, Garza etc.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  7. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    While I certainly don't think we have a Price among them. Cobb is a lot like Shields. He has the stuff and the command. Moore has the potential to be a price, if he can be consistent. And I think Archer could be better then Garza. Now there are a couple ifs and could bes in there, and that's why I don't think they will trade him. But they could certainly go with those 4 and come out as one of the top rotations again next season.

    By the way. With the Garza trade, I meant we had to many arms, we had to make a trade. Not that we just had depth. We had to trade someone. And garza was the oldest and most expensive. And he wasn't the best.
     
  8. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    I like Moore and Cobb a lot. I think both guys can be solid #2s with Moore having ace potential if, like you said, he can get better command and control. I need to see more of Archer. Hellickson, I think is what he is. Again not trying to put those 4 guys down because I think they could be one of the better staffs in baseball again but I could also see them being middle of the pack too because there are a lot of questions with them, assuming Price of course is dealt.

    I also think injury risks were another reason why they wanted to trade him sooner rather than later, which again was the smart move.
     
  9. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL
    Ah yes. I did forget about them being weary of injuries with him. Your right.

    Also, I think we can both agree on those 4 in the rays rotation for next year. It could easily be another top of the league rotation, but could also be a middle of the road rotation. Which is the main reason I think they will keep Price one more year. Just to see how Hellickson bounces back, how Moore improves and how Archer will do in his first full year.
     
  10. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Agreed on everything you said but Price. Only because I have no freaking idea on whether he will or won't be traded. I don't think the Rays themselves know either yet. But if I'm a team that is seriously considering traded for Price, I'm calling TB today and seeing what they want.
     
  11. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

    30,774
    5,433
    113
    Jan 6, 2010
    Why today though? Wouldn't the price for Price be higher right now? Pardon the pun.
     
  12. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    When would it be lower?
     
  13. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

    30,774
    5,433
    113
    Jan 6, 2010
    Trade deadline of his walk year no?
     
  14. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    That's not for a couple years. And I think trade deadline his value would probably be at an all time low. Also, TB and Texas. Only 2 teams in baseball to win 90 games the past 4 years. I don't see Tampa going anywhere. So it's unlikely they would be sellers at the trade deadline. Although it's possible.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  15. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Because right now you already have 6 teams not even thinking about next year right now and you try to get the deal done as quickly as possible so you're not fighting with other teams and having the asking price go up due to lack of leverage, plus it would then help your team in terms of planning for the rest of the offseason. Plus I'd be hoping that the Rays FO would be emotional due to just being eliminated from the playoffs and perhaps they let their emotions do the talking instead of their heads.

    Of course TB would be foolish to jump right into it without talking to each team first but I would at least open up the lines of communication and start to lay the ground work and see if it's even a possibly that you could match up to what TB wants. If you can't, you know that and move on and start differently.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  16. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Completely disagree. The best value/package TB can get for Price would be to trade him this offseason, that way the team getting him would have two years of control before he becomes a FA and have the possible draft pick tied to him. Worst time would be the trade deadline on the last year of his contract due to the lack of control and no draft pick. Plus an in season trade would lessen the number of teams in the playoff race that would be an option for TB.

    Teams really value both years of control and draft pick.
     
  17. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

    30,774
    5,433
    113
    Jan 6, 2010
    While I agree, you think they are going to risk going into free agency with just a compensatory pick coming back? Thats why many teams at the deadline walk year could simply be like "fine you have to pay him then"......Other teams will most certainly have leverage then....
     
  18. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    You disagree with me? You pretty much repeated everything I just said. Lol I'm confused.
     
  19. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    Oops. I see what happen. I said his value would be at an all time high for the trade deadline. I meant, an all time low.
     
    Ray Finkle and finyank13 like this.
  20. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

    3,088
    765
    0
    Oct 1, 2012

    • 4 years/$11.25M (2008-11), plus 2012-14 club options
      • signed extension with Tampa Bay 1/23/08
      • 08:$1M, 09:$1.5M, 10:$2.5M, 11:$4.25M, 12:$7M club option ($2M buyout), 13:$9M club option ($1.5M buyout), 14:$12M club option ($1M buyout)
      • value of 2012-14 club options may increase package to $38M
      • performance bonuses based on innings pitched, starts, and Cy Young voting may increase package to $44M
      • assignment bonus of $0.75M if traded
      • Tampa Bay exercised $7M option for 2012 10/31/11
      • 2012 salary increased by $0.5M to $7.5M with top 5 finish in 2011 Cy Young vote
      • 2013 option increased by $1.25M to $10.25M with escalators
      • 2014 option increased to about $13.5M with escalators
      • Tampa Bay exercised 2013 option at $10.25M 10/30/12
      • acquired by Kansas City in trade from Tampa Bay 12/9/12
     
  21. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

    30,774
    5,433
    113
    Jan 6, 2010
    Ain't nan new for the Lou eh Cash?

    Oh look another NLCS with the Cards in it.....I fear they may knock off LA and ruin my hoped for Red Sox/LA world series....
     
  22. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    You know Yank, you are absolutely right. I was 100% sure he made 15. What I was thinking was, 2012 was the year we picked up the team option for 15 mil. In reality, we picked up his option for 2013 for 10.25 mil. But then we traded him, so that 10.25 never came off out books.

    Price is set to make 13 million next year. Which is an absolute steal. If we can't afford that, then we need to close up shop.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Got to tip your hat to St. Louis, just a model franchise of consistency. Always good at the MLB level, drafts and develops well, makes smart trades, etc.

    Hey so far so good about my predictions, 5 for 5. Hopefully I will get the big one right.
     
    finyank13 likes this.
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Cards are usually overlooked as a team in the playoffs.
     
  25. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

    30,774
    5,433
    113
    Jan 6, 2010
    Speaking of the devil...
     
  26. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    I think that title is misleading. He said he is preparing himself to be. Not that he expects to be. Big difference.
     
  27. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

    30,774
    5,433
    113
    Jan 6, 2010
    I think the end game is the same however...
     
  28. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

    30,774
    5,433
    113
    Jan 6, 2010
    Interesting.....

     
  29. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

    3,088
    765
    0
    Oct 1, 2012
    The way they are running things is good enough to put playoff teams on the field why would they close shop or change anything? Small fanbase and a crappy stadium its the only way they can compete. David Price is as good as gone. They are not going to come out and say they have to trade him because that will lower his value. They will say all the right things but he is done as a Ray.
     
  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    See, and that is one of the problems for MLB.

    Being a fan is not about "it's not personal, it's just business" fandom is always personal.

    "Gosh we would be winning more games and having a more fun experience if it weren't for the business side of things"

    Yep, that should pack the seats.

    To use an analogy, if Michael Jordan was in MLB, the Bulls would have to trade him, despite his obvious greatness b/c "that is the nature of the business".
     
  31. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

    3,088
    765
    0
    Oct 1, 2012
    The NBA and MLB have nothing in common. 3 great players in NBA with role players can pretty much lock you in for a chance at a ring year in a year out not so in MLB. MLB is more of a team sport. Teams have a budget. If X player takes up to much of a salary then you ruin your chance to compete.

    When you have a budget around 60 million you simply can not pay a player 12-13 million who only plays 1/5 of the games no matter how good he is specially when pitching is your strength...

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tgIp3wMqRUbYKz17SoXACQg&output=html

    Says it all.....
     
  32. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Well I feel smart.

    Also, St. Louis has the home field advantage, but the way their rotation lines up, L.A. May be up two games before Wainwright sees the field. If that happens, he may only be faced one time in the round while Greinke/Kershaw may go twice. Winning game four against The Braves was huge for L.A. for a number of reasons.
     
  33. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

    12,957
    7,256
    113
    Dec 7, 2007
    Las Vegas
    Bad baserunning all around for St Louis right there... Wasted two outs on the bases
     
  34. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL
    Greinke has been pretty damn good tonight.
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Beltran was even better. Guy is a just a flat out hitter but gets forgotten about because he's older.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    I did not like the Beltran move by St Louis, but when you watch him get hit after hit in the playoffs and throwing out runners at home plate, I just think the guy is clutch in the playoffs.
     
  37. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

    10,193
    4,187
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Bradenton,FL

    He's been a very good all around baseball player for a log time. Why wouldn't you like the move at the time?
     
  38. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    2 years at 26 million was an absolute steal for St. Louis, great move to get him.
     
  39. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,465
    37,345
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Keep in mind, Beltran had micro fracture knee surgery while with the Mets, he was always injured.
     
  40. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

    13,500
    4,315
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    Hey remember when Greinke wouldn't be able to handle the pressure of a big market or he would fold in the playoffs because of an anxiety issue he had 7 years ago? You don't hear a lot about that now.
     

Share This Page