****The Official 2013-14 NBA Thread****

PPG isn't really a good stat. Harden is the man on his team while Wade is sharing shots with a bunch of other guys. I think PER is the best indicator and they are very very close.

 

harden shares alot of shots too. the rockets just believe at playing at a higher pace, therefore harden has to do more. he scores more, he assists more, and he rebounds more than wade per game. that's called effort. honestly, win share % tells me all i need to know about a player. it tells me how important he is to his team's success. harden has a higher %. i dont see how anyone can look at the stats and not see harden is better than wade right now. they dont watch the rockets, thats for sure. they will get another chance to see the best sg on sunday though.

 

I cant argue statistics with somebody that doesnt understand them.

All i am gonna see sunday is see Wade own Harden......Again.

 

Yes. Because they are. Your goal should be to agree with me.

 

it's cool, bro. his argument is so ridiculous and laughable to me that i cant even get angry enough to respond how i normally would to the namecalling.

 

"Ridiculous"......

See what i mean?

 

So in your opinion Harden is better than Lebron? He averages more PPG.

 

boik, i hear what you're saying, but again how anyone can call a player who defers to his teammates as much as wade and plays sparingly whenever he chooses to better than james harden who pretty much is carrying his team most nights is beyond comprehension. wade is better at defense because that is what miami's culture is. harden doesnt have to focus as much on defense because the rockets havent had a defensive culture since the 90s. i dont even remember the last time we had a top 10 defense. but, we've had a top 5 offense for five straight years. this is what daryl morey believes in, which is why he hired offensive minded head coaches such as rick adelman and kevin mchale.wade may know how to win because he's 32. he didnt start winning until shaq showed up. harden is 24 and doesnt have a shaq to learn from, but he is figuring it out. he has turned this team from an 8th seed to a 3rd seed in a conference that is as tough as it has ever been.

 

lebron has a higher win share% than both harden and wade. i never said ppg was my ultimate determinant. i specifically stated win share% tells me all i need to know about who the top players in the league are. so, to answer your question, lebron is the 2nd best player in the league this year according to that stat. and harden is better than wade.

 

"Wade didnt start winning till shaq came along"

Shaq came to miami in wade's 2nd year.

As a rookie, wade went to the second rd.

 

well, if you consider simply going to the playoffs as a winner, then harden is a winner because he's been to the playoffs every year. i thought we were discussing rings. what you're suggesting only helps my argument for harden. thanks, i knew you would come around.

 

Yawn. You missed the part where I said that Wade was going to the ECF's in his second year, and winning the title and Finals MVP in his 3rd. AS a rookie he went to the second round. Harden is a notorious playoff choker. Get real.

 

BTW..I let it slide, because what is the sense in calling somebody an idiot over and over....But WHAT THE **** IS A WIN SHARE %?

I have heard of Win Shares per 48
Offensive Win Shares
Defensive Win Shares
Total Win Shares
Wins Produced
Win Score

etc....

Now...if you are arguing based on Win Shares....DeAndre Jordan has better Win Share numbers than Harden...so I guess he's better than Harden too?

If you are arguing for PERCENTAGE of Total Win Shares...then you are dumber than I thought, because that stat is skewed toward ball hogs, and Harden would be right there with Lebron James and Kevin Durant.

 

For ****s and giggles...

James Harden vs. Dwyane Wade Head 2 Head:

Wade 9 Games 23.8 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.9 apg, 46%FG
Harden 9 Games 16.2 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.6 apg, 49%FG

Playoffs:

Wade 5 games 22.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 5.2 apg, 44% FG
Harden 5 games 12.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.6 apg, 37% FG - OOOF....


Choking sucks.....

 

win share percent is the same as ws/48. wow, i seriously needed to tell you that. ws/48 is a percentage, thus people calling it win share percentage. wow. and you are caught in a lie. deandre jordan's is not higher than harden's. are you so frustrated that you have to start making stuff up...lol. by the way, its higher than wades. i wonder when wade had his highest win share% and the heat stunk a couple a years ago before lebron came, did you think wade was trash?

 

so you're giving me stats when harden was a backup....ooookay. how about a comparison on this year head to head since we are talking about whether wade is currently better. his days in okc literally mean nothing to me, i'll wait.

 

First of all...I work with statistics. it is not called Win Share "percentage". It is called WS per 48.

and YES..DeAndre Jordan has more win shares than James Harden:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_leaders.html

Love how you said I was making stuff up BTW..or "caught in a lie". There is your lie in link form.

The Heat "stunk" before Lebron James got here? They won 47 games, and were the #4 and #5 seed the two years before Lebron. I know you started watching basketball this year, but at least brush up on your history.

I will help you out a little....

Win Shares are minutes driven, and based on Usage, so in essence, they are worthless to measure efficiency.

 

"Backup"? No such thing. He was playing starter minutes. He just came off the bench.

Head 2 Head this year? They played one game..and both played well: (But since you like ppg...Wade outscored Harden in that game..so he must be better right?)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201403040HOU.html

 

That is fair enough, though win share % IMO is a stat that tells nothing.

 

I never understood why it bothers Heat fans so much when teams celebrate like they won the Title when they beat the Heat.

That is Part of having a great team. Now....I will admit..the only guy that really bothers me when he celebrates is Paul George. The guy regularly gets shut down by Lebron...hits one shot...and goes nuts.

Paul Pierce...LOL...let the old man have his delusions. Joakim Noah..guy is awesome and there is nothing wrong with him losing his mind when he beats us.

Now the fans of these teams....other story.

 

I don't get mad exactly but its just annoyong and stupid. If you've accomplished nothing, act like it. Beat us in the playoffs and you can throw a keg party for all I care. Regular season? You've done nothibg but win 1 of 82 games. Noone goes craxy like that when they beat other teams.

 

no such thing as a backup, huh. so norris cole is your starting point guard and you would compare his stats with chris paul. mmmkay. also, i still dont know what your references to his okc days has to do with this debate about current issues. and, since you like per as a stat so much, please enlighten me if wade's per was higher than harden's during their loss to the rockets this year. i'm sure wade destroyed him, as you love to point out, mr. statistic.

 

well, to be fair everyone on this board went crazy when we beat the steelers and patriots. it happens. put yourself in their shoes. lord knows i totally understand their reaction.

 

culture has a lot to do with it. for example, dwight howard is a 4 time dpoy and he is not very good on defense since joining the rockets. its not a major emphasis on this team. terrance jones came from the calipari tree at uk in college where they won the title as a defensive team. he comes to the rockets and cant play defense worth a lick. if wade was a rocket, his defensive numbers would go down too. i bet his scoring would increase though.

 

Norris Cole is a rotation player...and you CAN compare him to Chris Paul with per 36 and per 48 numbers. You can also compare him to those guys using Win Score and Wins Produced per 48.

We are gonna compare individual games now? Wade shot more free throws, but Harden had more assists. Statistically, that game was a wash between the two. Rockets won. celebrate.

 

Speaking of which...Norris Cole has absolutely sucked for two weeks now.

 

I agree and disagree.

When a guy blows by you over and over 1-1 that isn't a culture issue. At some point its on the player to man up and just play defense.

I do agree that the type of team does have an impact on defense sone though.

 

head to head matchups is something you brought up. like i said, if you're going to compare head to head, keep it relevant to this year since our debate is about this year. i know you're a wade fan and stuck in the past with him vs. a 20 yr old okc james harden. i could care less about the past. im not an okc fan and didnt care about harden then. i said harden is better right now...as a rocket. per, ws%, ppg, rpg, apg...pick one and it favors harden.

 

Stop saying WS%. it doesn't exist. and you only listed what favors you. You are accusing me of something YOU are doing. And Harden was 22 in those Finals. He is 24 now.

 

I'd like to again say....I like Harden. He's one of my favorite players. Its not about that. I also like the Rockets. If I had to pick a second team they would be in contention.

 

I watch game 3 and game 6 Finals highlights from 06 at least a dozen items each year. I had those games on DVR for a couple of years as well. No matter what happens with Wade after this season, nobody can take away his 3 (4?) championships and The Single Greatest Finals Performance in league history.

Not saying this as a response to this discussion btw, just pulled up the highlights again and decided to share. Wade launching the ball in the air as time expires is my single favorite HEAT memory.

Also, TODAY Wade > Harden :P

 

And with Hardens **** game tonight...Wade takes lead in PER

 

Went through the thread....Wade is the better player now, Harden has his time coming, and I'm sure he will overtake him soon, but not yet. PER is king IMO, stats don't like.

 

But but but...I thought he was going to work from MONTANA.MONTANA.MONTANA??