So, they were moved, and we got maximum value. Then what did we do with that value to help this years team ? How was their talent replaced ?
The Dolphins had 61,000 season ticket holders for the 2009 season. As of today, a scarce 3 seasons later it stands at just over 39,000. Unless Ross is a complete idiot (which I'm still not decided he isn't), he can clearly see the business model they have used is not working and needed to be changed. Why that didn't mean a complete wipeout of the old regime, is beyond me, but it seems to prove to me my opinion of Ross is valid. He's a clueless ****.
Of course it does. Attendance was starting to wane after Satan left. It fell off some for 2007 and then took a real dive at the beginning of 2008. That got rectified by the end of the year and then because we made the playoffs there was a spike for the 2009 season. But since then unless you are blind, you can see a steady erosion of less fans at almost every game. The exception being New England. This year is the 1st in my memory that there must have been at least 10,000 empty seats for the Jets game.
The thing is I don't think attendance will get worse for next year. I think its been pared down to that hardcore fan base that would go even if the Dolphins players were actually the Sisters of the Poor.
Like this whole season as 8 of 9 are not even on the team anymore. That isn't just bad luck, that is bad GM'ing.
That's a superficial statement. The 2011 Niners needed not endure NEARLY as much transition as we're experiencing now, as much of their roster fit nicely into the change from one regime & coaching staff to the next, where as our transition is significantly more drastic. San Fran's offense revolves around the run and Oline play, and all the significant pieces existed BEFORE Harbaugh and their new GM took over. 4 of 5 best Olinemen were already there, including 3 first rounders: Joe Staley ('07), Anthony Davis ('10), Mike Iupati ('10). 1st round TE Vernon Davis Alex Smith Gore Crabtree Defensively, 9 of 11 2011 starters existed previously (Smith, Willis, Bowman, McDonald, Brooks, Sopoaga, Tarrell Brown, Goldson, Harylson) The additions made were center (Goodwin), safety (Whitner), cornerback (Rogers), and drafted Aldon Smith. That's it. Those are nice additions but not nearly enough to qualify as being the difference between 6-10 & 13-3 as you're insinuating. Case in point, after a 7-9 2009 we added Marshall, Dansby, and unleashed Cam Wake, yet we still finished 7-9. Not enough credit or criticism is thrown at coaching, player development, execution, and scheme. From San Fran's 2011 & 2012 draft: Only 3 starters: Aldon Smith, Bruce Miller (fullback), and Kaepernick (if you can call him a starter yet). Only 2 backups are seeing action IIRC: Kendall Hunter & Chris Culliver. The remaining 13 draftees see little to no snaps, and 3 of their 2012 picks are no longer with the team. Heck, their 1st round WR doesn't see the field, yet Miami fans complain about our raw 3rd round TE. So, contrary to your assertion, San Fran didn't do anything crazy personnel-wise to turn the team around. It was a combination of the young guys needing time to develop, a significantly improved coaching staff, and subsequently having the team execute consistently, which if we had done this year we'd be at least 8-4 at the moment. If Dolphin fans want to use San Fran as an example then they actually should NOT be upset for us trying to first bolster the oline with Pouncey & Martin before throwing high picks on playmakers, as San Fran spent 3 first rounders in 4 years to solidify their Oline before spending a 1st on a pass rusher & WR. If anything, Miami's 2011 & 2012 offseasons under Ireland were better than San Fran's. Also, I'm not sure what the Colts have to do with anything. There's no special skill involved with finishing last and having the #1 pick the year the best prospect of all time is available. We're 3 plays away from being 8-4 right now as well, and the Colts are 5 4th quarter Andrew Luck drives away from being 3-9. Perhaps it's our fault for not putting a gun to Indy's head and strong-arming them into swapping 1st round picks, eh?
It don't take tremendous cleverness to figure it out. Miami traded him for his maximum likely value going forward. Marshall is a ****-up, and he would almost certainly suffer a noteworthy suspension and loss of value during his remaining contract.
plus we got 2 years out of him. It's not like we immediately turned around & sent him packing 5 days later. Considering no one would give Pitt a 1st for Wallace, I'd say 2 3rds for Marshall wasn't too bad considering the circumstances at the time. What Dolfan22 seems to miss is how the reduced rookie wage scale has impacted the trade value of high-priced players effective 2011. There's no longer a greater incentive to trade a high priced draft pick for a high priced veteran (unless you're Oakland). The reduced rookie salary cost should make the value of draft picks increase. As such, what would fetch a 1st or 2nd rounder a few years ago would likely fetch less today.
I would like to get some idea as to how folks who like Philbin, will want ireland fired..isnt that a package of sort,are we assuming that Ireland wasn't as influential as Ross in the hiring?
It's useless, Deej. Some fans' beliefs are so slanted they wanna believe Ross actually drafted Tannehill #1 in spite of Ireland, yet will turn around and say Ireland was responsible for all our previous bad moves despite not even being in charge at the time. Hypocrisy at its finest.
It's impossible to say what he'd be worth in Miami RIGHT NOW since he's not in Miami right now. However, he was in Miami for 2 years, and his value after those 2 years was entirely different than his current Chicago value now that he's in a system tailored to having more balls thrown at him than a Turkish prison whore and while happily reunited with his old QB.
Love how you cushion yourself , "wasn't too bad" gets you ahead , like Miami's record the last decade pretty much.
Your thoughts on the hiring process?...why is there some confusion as to who really hired Philbin, especially considering the stuff that was out there about Ireland being fond of McCoy?.. Also the quote by Ireland when Philbin was hired " everybody loves him,I just hope he can coach" did that strike you as odd?
lol stop. now you're just being argumentative. we all know filling needs is a process, you can't fill every need in one draft or one offseason, but when WR is the biggest hole on your roster you don't wait until the second to last round to address it just because there isn't an AJ Green or Julio Jones coming out, especially when it's so pivotal to the development of the franchise QB you just drafted. if Ireland takes a Stephen Hill or T.Y. Hilton, at least then i can say he legitimately TRIED. Naanee and BJ Cunningham in the 6th round is not really trying lol. you don't think Hilton would contribute here? he is exactly the type of WR that we need, the skills he brings to the table, none of the guys that we currently have can offer. now adding a Hilton wouldn't be the last step, but it is one step in surrounding Tannehill with a dynamic group of weapons in a passing league. that's the problem, Ireland either passed on these guys in the draft because he thought Naanee/Clyde Gates/Roberto Wallace/Marlon Moore would step up, or he thought he could find some gem at the end of the draft like a colston or denarius moore who would come in and contribute right away, or he just doesn't value the position all that much. either way, he obviously failed in his evaluations and projections of the unproven receivers that were on the roster at the time or the guys he ended up drafting late. he gambled, and he got burned, and that gamble has crippled the offense.
What would it matter? We wouldn't want him back b/c he wasn't a fit here. Chicago traded for him for a reason, and we traded him away for a reason. It was to benefit both parties. We're lucky we had a buyer at the time, just as Chicago was lucky there was a seller. There was a reason he was excited about Chicago, and that was b/c he knew their offensive scheme and prior rapport with Cutler would benefit his production, which is exactly what's happening, where as in Miami he'd be in a Philbin offense that sees its top receiver catch only 70 balls/year, and that could've led to disaster and in turn been worth significantly less to us than 2 3rd round draft picks. It's quite easy to understand.
I don't put much emphasis in it considering the only report about him preferring McCoy was from a reporter w/o a named source. Every year there's a story about "NFL sources said and such" that turned out to be horse poo. And who knows, it's quite possible we showed interest in McCoy in the same way that Harbaugh showed interest in us, as leverage. All I know is Ireland is in charge and Philbin is our HC. I don't envision a scenario where Jeff is entrusted by Ross as the man in charge of the organization (which he is) and then the less football-experienced Ross hires a candidate Ireland doesn't endorse. That wouldn't make sense to me. Furthermore, if Ireland didn't endorse the hiring of Philbin, then why would Ross continue employing him rather than simply going his separate way with a GM who does? He might be new to football but he's not new to business, nor success for that matter. Not to mention, there's the affiliation between Philbin & Sherman, and it's documented Ireland had a chubby for Tannehill months before Philbin was hired and before Sherman was fired at TAMU, so it's quite possible Ireland had thoughts of Philbin & Sherman shortly after Sherman's termination considering it wouldn't be a special feat for Jeff to realize Tannehill should have an offense built around him similar to the one he already knows, is successful in, and seems fit for. There are some similarities between Tannehill & Aaron Rodgers's skill set, so it shouldn't be difficult to look at Aaron Rodgers and see Philbin's impact and then look at Tannehill and draw a parallel. It didn't strike me as odd necessarily. I thought he was mixing his quirky humor with the fact Philbin has no track record as an NFL head coach.
Marshall would definitely have more than 70 catches had he stayed here, when you have a younger Donald Driver, Greg Jennings and James Jones and then later a Jordy Nelson, Finley and Randall Cobb it makes sense to spread the ball around a little more. just Marshall being flanked by Hartline and Bess...? lol not so much.
There is a fundamental problem when your concern is more appearances than it is actually making correct decisions. No, it's quite plausible he passed on them because he didn't think they were among the most valuable players at any of his picks. And his tangible, meaningful gamble was Chad Johnson, and I don't think you can assume it was a bad one because he committed career suicide in a way that was unpredictable
Why would they he a package? On what basis? This off season they fired Sparano and retained Ireland. That stands as strong evidence that in Steve Ross' mind, the head coach and general manager are not at all tied to one another.
I think what it suggests is that Jeff Ireland did not hire Tony Sparano, nor did Jeff Ireland make the decisions during the Parcells/Sparano tenure that Ross viewed as instrumental in making the team play the way it did during that period. However, if Jeff Ireland hired Joe Philbin, the head coach and GM could be entirely tied to one another in Ross's mind in this instance.
Economy, yes. That and people who will choose not to spend their money on watching a bad team play. I don't blame em one bit, either.
That's a stretch, for a number of reasons. 1. Jeff Ireland was hired before Tony Sparano, helped conduct the interviews for the head coach job, and was very much a part of that hiring process. 2. Steven Ross wasn't even a part of the organization back then so he has no reason to think differently about it. 3. Jeff Ireland did not hire Joe Philbin, Steven Ross did. Joe Philbin DOES NOT REPORT to Jeff Ireland. He and Jeff Ireland are on equal footing underneath Steve Ross. That's the same exact way it was in 2008 when the Dolphins hired Bill Parcells who then hired Jeff Ireland and then Tony Sparano. Ireland was as much a part of that hiring process as he was this one, and he's got no more authority over this head coach than he did that one.
Do you really think Bill Parcells left the decision about whom to hire as a head coach to a first-time GM in his first year on the job? Sure he does. All he has to know is how it all went down from the parties involved, and that would tell him what to think about it. Well if that's true, then in Stephen Ross's mind, Joe Philbin indeed may be no more tied to Jeff Ireland than Tony Sparano was.
This is my point. In the Dolphins' organizational structure the head coach and general manager are set up essentially on equal footing just with different responsibilities. Jeff Ireland cannot fire Joe Philbin, nor can Joe Philbin fire Jeff Ireland. Nor can either man discipline the other should they do something wrong.
According to my recollection, a big part of the reason Parcells took the job in Miami instead of Atlanta was that he wanted an Ireland/Sparano package, which Atlanta wasn't sold on. Ireland was hired first, but the head coaching interviews were supposedly no more than a formality (even Rex Ryan, who was interviewed, made the comment that they basically already knew who they wanted) and short of being blown away (and supposedly Leslie Frazier came close), they were going with Sparano. But that's not to say that it was all a Parcell's thing, as Ireland was most likely 100% on board with it also.
So in that scenario, Jeff Ireland shouldn't be held accountable at all for what Tony Sparano did. And if it's true he didn't have the final call on the other major decisions that were instrumental in how the team played during that period, then it's not hard IMO to see why he's still here despite the absence of Parcells, Sparano, and Henne.
Last year two of our biggest weaknesses were at RT and QB. Enter Tannehill and Jon Martin. After that, Vernon, Egnew, Miller seemed to be value/need picks at positions we still hear complaints about today: pass rush, seam buster, play maker etc. It's not hard to see why we drafted any of those guys. But I don't believe for a second that any of this has to do with Ireland's picks. The team is losing so people have to criticize something, someone has to be fired, blah blah blah. Its a lot easier to do that than it is to go back, re-watch the games, and grab a clue or two about what's actually going on.
Sparano was nearly replaced in 2010 and fired in 2011. Ireland was involved in those efforts, and he was retained afterwards. Obviously the people above Ireland felt he deserved to keep his job at that point. So the question is, what has happened since to justify Ireland being let go? B/c most of the reasons, and I use that term loosely, for wanting him gone have to do with what happened prior to the decision to keep him after 2011. Many of them have to do with actions taken before he was the head personnel man, and some of them date back to before he even got here. I don't even like Omar, but he's stating what anyone with common sense should be able to see, Ireland isn't going to be fired any time soon. That's not going to stop people from wanting him fired, or from fantasizing about how much smarter than him they are. You're spitting into the wind trying to logically explain things to those people, but I admire the effort.
I never heard that. Every explanation I heard was that he used Atlanta to get a better offer from the Dolphins, which is how the Falcons' owner came away feeling about the whole thing. Also it should be pointed out that Atlanta actually requested an interview with Tony Sparano for the head coaching job. I can't remember whether that interview ever got conducted or not but the request was made and that was after Parcells left them at the altar so-to-speak.
I don't see how this is some great big revelation that absolves Jeff Ireland of all team non-success from 2008 to 2011. General Managers generally let their coaches coach and just make the decisions about the roster. That's what Ireland's done from the start.
