The Ireland question(s): When does he have to produce by? *SURVEY*

IF he is not fired this year, then I'd imagine that he would have to produce a winning team (9+ wins). Tannehill and Philbin would be in their second year, the team would have some stability, and we should still have a very good defense. Anything other than that would be more of the same mediocrity.

 

If Ireland survives this season, I don't see how he can survive a non-playoff season, even if it's 9-7.

We need to make the playoffs next year, or everybody, including Philbin is on notice.

 

2011. Whoops.

 

Another head coach or two and then they must draw the line.

 

It's basically in practice, and should be dependent on Ryan Tannehill. If Ryan Tannehill looks like he's going to be a good starting quarterback next year, then Ireland stays. If not, he gets fired.

It's not a matter of "producing". Jeff Ireland has produced pretty well. Not to the satisfaction of the fans in specific areas, but overall his success rates in play acquisition have been pretty good.

 

So 3 Head Coaches under his tenure as GM? Jeez. Supreme Court Justices don't have that kind of job security.

 

Produced ''pretty well'' .... illuminate us how yet one more failed season can be regarded as produced pretty well?

 

How has he produced? The team has gotten worse every single year. Tannehill has done nothing to show that he could be a franchise QB, other than being drafted 7th. Ireland has picked 5 DE, 4 within the first 72 picks in his 5 years here. Is that great drafting? Trades Samson Satele, signs a guy to replace him that plays 9 games and retires. Ernest Wilford, Gibril Wilson, Pat White... He has just 2 of the 8 1-3 round draft picks from his first 2 years still on the team.

 

Go look at what actual draft and free agency results look like in practice, and get back to me. Hell, just pick a single team even. Do some research. Go through the effort to have an informed opinion.

 

Don't you get it. Because alot of other GMs are just as bad as Ireland and get similar results that makes Ireland "good" and thus immune from criticism.

You would understand this if you did a little research and came up with an objective analysis that is actually meaningless, because what other GMs are doing is irrelevant to what Ireland is doing, but when you've joined the Ireland Doomsday Cult you do what you need to do to keep the flame burning.

 

Not exactly meaningless. All things are looked at in context. I don't see how you can determine success in drafting without a comparative threshold.

 

Ireland has already produced. It is not his fault the coaches can not coach up these players.

As far as wins, isn't that really the job of the coach to produce wins?

Philbin's fate is in Philbin's hands. Although I think he is in the perfect position. Due to circumstances, he gets a pass no matter what kind of crap he puts on the field. If we suck it's because we have a new rookie QB who is learning. If he never put it together he will just blame it on Ireland and the talent he has.

I do not disagree that there is still a lot of work to do here. But, we are a competitive team and we have managed to play right along side two of the best teams in the NFL and they could not handedly beat us. It came down to the wire in both games. We do have talent as evidenced the last 2 weeks. We also have glaring holes to fill, namely wide receiver. One thing I do know about Ireland is he will not bet the farm on one player, that is a good thing.

 

The proof is in the pudding: OUR RECORD

2008 - 11-5
2009 - 7-9
2010 - 7-9
2011 - 6-10

Notice a trend? I don't care how good the talent acquisitions look "on paper" (and really, they don't look so good). The team, under the supervision of Jeff Ireland, has regressed.

 

We have and provided that to you previously , you have a different view on how you worship Ireland than others , the statement was he has produced pretty well, how is this record he is responsible for in any way to be considered that? By saying that you are telling everyone you are ok with the way this franchise is producing , oh right you have said that.

Well I am not and thankfully others are not as well, unfortunately it doesn't appear that Ireland will be relieved of his duties , we will have yet another year for Peter Principle to take us to the playoffs.

 

The 11-5 team was pretty much a fluke. It wasn't like his GMing contributed to that. Pennington fell into his lap, and he used the #1 pick on Long.

 

Untrue. The fact that most lawyers are average does not mean you should necessarily be satisfied with an average lawyer.

Or doctor.

The criteria I use fior evaluating Ireland is what he chose to do with the ammunition that he had. The fact that other people passed on Jimmy Graham too doesn't matter. I want to know why Ireland passed on him.

I want to know why Ireland traded down from 12 to 28 to take Odrick and Misi rather than staying put and taking Earl Thomas, or Dez Bryant or JPP. The fact that other teams passed on JPP doesn't matter to me.

 

The record doesn't count, because they're a result of bad QB play. Just don't ask who acquired the QB's, because that throws a wrench into things.

 

Don't compare his record w/ qbs he drafts vs. qbs he didn't draft lol.

 

What trend the regression? With the exception of Pennington, We didn't have a QB worth a **** until this year. Then this year we are given Tannehill, who is very raw and probably is in over his head. The last 2 weeks we have played two of the best teams in the NFL and given them fits. If our QB was further along we would have won both games and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 

lol this excuse is nothing short of pathetic.

 

resign.

 

It's not a excuse.

Its a fact.

Jeff Ireland has nothing to do with coaching these players.

 

No you haven't

You can't measure a GM by a record. It's simplistic and inaccurate.

 

We could probably just set up some type of custom script so posters can just automatically post the team's record every time a thread is created. Would save a lot of time and still keep traffic up.

 

I'd say we need to see a team that can make a serious playoff push by the 2011 season.

 

Yes I have, which you do remember and know ,but whatever , doesn't matter to me that you chose to believe your blind faith tinged thoughts. You can measure a GM by won/loss records, again you chose not to , but hey whatever , certainly doesn't mean you are correct , which you aren't.

But let's just let Ireland continue to be in charge of an underproducing franchise where not making the playoffs is deemed producing pretty well. Glad that you feel that merits accolades.

 

2011 , and have we seen that?

 

No. My point really was that Ireland is about to wrap up his fifth year on the job and we still have no idea when this team might be a contender.

 

It's pretty ridiculous to say it doesn't matter how other people do. You simply can't judge someone without comparing him to his peers. Just as it would be moronic to complain that a player is too slow because he can't run a sub-4 second 40 without taking into account the fact that no human being in history has ever been able to do that, it is ridiculous to complain about the job a GM has done without comparing his performance to that of the other 32 very well paid and experienced personnel people who are doing the same job.

Most lawyers or doctors aren't average. Most are either above or below. And in most instances one should be satisfied with an average lawyer as most things asked of lawyers don't require special or extraordinary abilities. But that is beside the point, as you haven't established that Ireland is only average because you refuse to even consider what most other GMs have done.

Yes, the fact that others (all others) passed on Jimmy Graham does matter. Unless your position is that every GM deserves to be fired for passing on Jimmy Graham. And that may well be your position, but it is a pretty silly one. Of course, the other reason why it matters what others have done is that if you fire him you have to replace him with someone else. It makes little sense to do that if the odds are against finding someone better. If Ireland is exactly average, then the odds of finding someeone better are the same as finding someone worse. But if he is 66th percentile then the odds of replacing him with someone worse are twice as great as replacing him with someone better. You seem to want change for the sake of change and therefore don't seem to care about that, but it is perfectly logical for others to be concerned about the likelihood that his replacement is worse.

If what you are looking for are explanations for why Ireland did what he did then you'd have to ask him. It's pretty clear that he felt getting two good players was better than getting one. He could pretty easily justify passing on Earl Thomas by saying that he had Reshad Jones targeted for the later rounds and felt Jones was the bigger. better player. Jones has significantly outplayed Thomas this year in virtually every conceivable category or stat. Not taking Dez Bryant could be pretty easily justified by saying the team had just traded for a big, talented doucebag WR and didn't need two. Probably couldn't have even survived two. And Dez Bryant is a pretty huge douchebag. JPP was clearly a talented athlete but he was very much a boom or bust guy. Great athletic ability, but he really wasn't very productive in college. 6.5 sacks and 7 hurries against the likes of Wofford, Charleston Southern and a Big East schedule is just not all that impressive. A guy with his size and athletic ability should have been much more productive. So why wasn't he? Many considered him lazy and not all that bright. The bust potential was very high. It didn't happen. But the fact that someone will win the lottery doesn't make buying a bunch of lottery tickets a good decision. With a still pretty loaded DL, the Giants were in a good position to gamble on greatness. The Dolphins were not in that same position.

 

Before Parcells shat on us and tried to contort Ireland into his image, young Mr Jeff was quite successful, talented, promising and highly thought of by the NFL. God knows he's been groomed for it. 2012 was a good draft. He gets 2013 b/c of it. Not only have we transitioned our entire roster outside of 2 players, but we're now transitioning into a vastly different style offense and different defense. Having a year for the improved coaching staff to settle in, develop the players, and transition them into their new system should be enough time to see results when the 2013 season arrives, with the help of any FA and draft pick additions. As such, it should be a defining year as to whether or not we're on the right path. Based on our past 3 games I'd say we're on the right track.

 

Now, I know the win-loss column isn't exactly inspiring this year, but in order to become a winning team, some gradual & observable progress ON THE FIELD typically has to be made at some point before the transformation in the win-loss column pursues. Even before San Fran's overnight win success with Harbaugh you could see glimpses of a promising team.

So for a moment I forget about the season as a whole and look at our most recent games to see what kind of strives, if any, are being made.

• Over the past 2 weeks against the NFL's hottest team, N.E, and a top San Fran squad, excluding a few mishaps and missed opportunities, it was difficult to tell who the better team was through the first 55 minutes of each game. Considering the massive arse-whippings NE just put on Houston, Indy, NY, and StLouis, and the Niners whipping the Bears a few weeks ago I'd say we're making progress.
• The week before that we looked as good or better than 8-5 Seattle who recently beat Chicago and crushed Zona 58-0.
• We lost to 9-4 Indy b/c of 1 play. (We lost to the Jets & Cardinals b/c of 2 missed FGs despite looking like the better team.)
• Plus we did it minus Brandon Marshall & Vontae, minus any big time free agent signings, and while transitioning into an entirely new offense.

The team obviously has talent to compete with the NFL's best. With Tannehill's development, a few weapons added, and less boneheaded plays, we're right there with the Niners. We looked the better team verse Seattle, and IMO we still have greater room for improvement than they do. With us being so close to turning the corner, I don't see a reason to risk prematurely jeopardizing it all on a new GM who might ruin everything we're building. And, respectfully, I think it's irrational to throw it all out the window simply b/c fans are upset the WR position isn't better.

 

wow, just wow. Very impressive post

 

Jeff Ireland doesn't coach, that's true. Simultaneously, coaching isn't the issue this year. This team is well coached, certainly much better than the previous two head coaches and possibly better than Nick Saban.

However, coaching doesn't magically turn bad players into good players. Coaching can correct some deficiencies and can improve some strengths, that's all. Coaching is not a magic elixir. Coaches can only work with the players they're given, and if the players aren't good enough, then coaching can't change a thing.

Jeff Ireland was reportedly frustrated with Tony Sparano, or at least Sparano's staff, because he believed the players he was providing weren't being properly utilized. So the coaching staff was changed, presumably to better utilize those remaining players (Davis was traded, Gates was cut, etc), and we're now on a path to either fall short or tie last year's record. Given the emphasis you place on coaching, this should tell you that the problem isn't the coaching. The problem is the players.

 

To add to Fineas' point, and not that I really need to as I think he addressed it well, you seem to be harping on a number of moves you don't like and blinding yourself to the big picture because of that. If you want to say whether Ireland is good at drafting you have to establish a threshold. A few here have done so by comparing Irish's drafts to that of top GMs in the league. He's right there with them as far as number of good picks, busts, etc. He's not average; he's above average... and if Tannehill works out, he'll be one of the great ones. To pick out a few moves that weren't well thought out or that you simply disagree with is not particularly persuasive to someone like me - very much on the fence.

That being said I think his record as a 'team builder', considering all aspects (draft, FA, trades) is far worse than his ability to draft. He strikes me as a fantastic scout and a decent GM. Lets hope he's improving with time if he sticks around.

 

Knowing the subject matter before you speak on it doesn't matter to you either.

Jimmy Graham is a pass catching specialist. It makes sense for a pass first team to draft him. A pound the ball/play defense type of team wouldn't value him as much. If you look at the types of TEs we were acquiring at the time you should get an idea of what Ireland was looking for. And John Jerry is a starter who's been giving us decent snaps all year. If he gets his weight down he can be an upper tier RG.

Dez Bryant is a WR. We had just traded 2 2nd round picks and given big up $$$ for Brandon Marshall. Trading down allowed us to recoup one of those 2nd rounders while still getting two decent players who start for us. It's one thing to not like the guy. But you're describing some of his better moves as reasons he should be fired. Kinda silly.

 

Talent at the Wide receiver position ......ok I'll give you that. But this team is loaded with talent. Talent that Jeff Ireland has put in place. Ireland has completely turned over this rooster in less then 5 years. The last 2 weeks it took the entire game to figure out who the better team was among 2 of the top teams in the NFL, the San Francisco 49ers and the New England patriots. Had it not been for a couple over thrown balls and missed opportunities we would have beat them both. We also lost to New York and Arizona because of a missed field goal. Lost to Indy because of a single play. all this and we could still end up 8-8. Talent is not the problem.

 

LOL, they dolphins had no chance of beating either the 49ers or Pats, to say the game was in question the entire time is false.