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The elephant in the room

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Dec 18, 2016.

  1. dirtylandry

    dirtylandry Well-Known Member

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    My boys,
    I love Ryan Tannehill. I thought he has been given unfair circumstances since he has been here; bad coaching, bad line, lack of talent. I want Ryan back for Camp in 2017. However, there is going to be a QB controversy here and we should all be ready. I will say this, for the rest of this season, with Pouncey gone and our inability to run the ball, The one on one matchups with our skilled WRs on blitzes and loaded fronts, fits Matt Moore than it does Tannehill. This team from the jump at camp, had issues on the line and didn't have a set RB, and my thoughts were with these WRs, we need to be vertical. Things have gone up and down since then, however, here we are, the OL cannot run block, however, are doing a job well-done on pass protection. Maybe defenses will play softer and we can run the ball again, however, I think teams will dare us to pass, and with this Gunslinger, who probably is a bit more accurate and a better pocket presence, this could be a blessing in disguise, based on the circumstances with injuries this year.

    I want to stress the fact Tannehill is my boy, but the team around him right now fits Moore
     
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  2. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Its one game, and Moore will head back to the bench when Ryan is healthy. The way it should be.

    But to say this team is set up for Moore is a stretch IMO.
     
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  3. Sloopy

    Sloopy Member

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    There is some evidence for your perspective, in that when the Dolphins faced the Jets earlier in the year, coming off the two, 200+ yard games by Ajayi, the Jets were likely poised to stop the run, and the Jets' run defense was playing much better, Tannehill played much worse against them than Moore did last night, when the Jets were likely similarly playing to stop the run and make Moore beat them.

    Obviously there could be situational factors that made one or both teams play differently back then than they did last night, but I don't think we can confirm those like we can the obvious difference in how Tannehill and Moore played in those two games.
     
  4. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If there's a QB controversy, it'll mean that Moore led the team to the playoffs and won game or two or three. I'm down with that.
     
  5. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Why should it be that way if the offense is better with Moore?
     
  6. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I was really hoping the D would play to stop the run last night, I knew Moore could beat that. Quite honestly for the most part Gase played right into that calling runs on first and second downs often.
     
  7. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Because its a classic knee jerk reaction to a small sample size. The offense is not better with more. Realistically, it was simply an efficient game from Moore, that's it. The likelihood of that happening again is low, as it would be with any other QB. Now that there is actual film of him playing for the first time in 5 years we will see how teams approach us.

    Also, acting as if the Jets haven't just laid down for the remainder of the season, an the role that played in this teams ability to dominate the game cannot be overlooked. The Jets predominantly are looking forward to ending the season. Other teams may not be in the same position mentally. So, looking at one game as if it is a barometer of things to come is misleading given the mitigating factors that came into play.

    Otherwise, one is jumping the gun by a good margin. Buffalo wont lay down the way NY did. They haven't played like that, now maybe they do if they lose today, but until that happens, suggesting the offense is better with Moore after one game is closer to hyperbole than anything else. Not enough to go on to make that statement.
     
  8. Rickysabeast

    Rickysabeast Royale With Cheese

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    Way too early for this stuff. Not to mention, it's the Jets who are horrid this year. T-Hill is the better QB to me but looking forward to Moore putting up a good argument via amazing play. I don't care if freaking Santa is our QB as long as we win. My only loyalty is to the logo on the helmet.
     
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  9. Sloopy

    Sloopy Member

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    This is a very well thought out and sensible post. The issue though is that the rest of the season is also a small sample size.

    This is all very similar to the Ohio State team that won the National Championship in 2014, after Braxton Miller and JT Barrett were both hurt during the season. Cardale Jones came in after not playing a down all season, and immediately offset opposing teams' focus on Ohio State's run game (Ezekiel Elliott) by being efficient and hitting on bombs downfield to Devin Smith with his cannon arm (analogous to Moore's style). There were only three games in which he had to do that for them to win the championship, and he did it.

    So while I don't think anybody should make a knee-jerk conclusion that the team is better off long-term (next season and beyond) with Moore than with Tannehill on the basis of this small sample of games, I think a good case can be made for continuing to use Moore in the playoffs if he continues to lead the team in this way, even if Tannehill gets healthy enough to start.
     
  10. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    how many games will it take to determine IF the offense is better with Moore? Moore is averaging 20 years a completion, that is insane. I know it won't hold, but after 2 games he has played in is pretty cool.

    I know you say the Jets laid down for the season, BUT they just beat the 49ers the game before, Most teams laying down do not win games.

    Where in this game did you see the Jets lay down? Did the lay down stopping the run? I don't think so as we could not run all night, not even in the 4th quarter
     
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  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Matt Moore is too old for there to be a controversy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  12. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    The Jets are horrid, but so are the Browns, Rams. and 49ers all teams we barely beat.
     
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  13. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    It would be insane not to use Moore the rest of the season, unless he completely unfolds , which I do not see happening. Why risk injury to Tannehill.

    And while 3 games are a sample size these are 3 playoff type games! not just end of the year finish out the year kinda stuff
     
  14. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    lol, I was waiting for this, it's hilarious!

    fancy words, efficient team, it will be a blast this week! (finally, these 8-9 weeks, aside from the Ravens, were kind of a hard time, I get it), I am looking forward to it!



    [​IMG]


    (no Arnold in the booth, no ****ing Miracle yesterday for the Jets)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
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  15. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Over 1/3 of our rushing yards for the game came in the fourth quarter, see Drake's 15 yard run, Ajayi's 9 yard run; which makes 23 yards out of our 66 yard total. I don't think those two plays alone (and we ran more than 2 times) back up your statement regarding the 4th quarter. And from a statistical standpoint, 13 games would be required for it to be a statistical certainty, as 13 is the minimum standard required for a proof.

    Teams that have laid down do win games. Lucky bounces, stupid plays by opposing teams, turnovers etc., all play a part as they do on any given sunday - so trying to make an altruism on the subject simply isn't the best way to go about it. The sun shines on a dogs *** every once in a while regardless of how crappy the dog the actually is. Hence why there have not been many winless seasons in the NFL compared the number of 1 or 2 win seasons for example.

    Also saying a team laid down as a group does in no way negate the fact that some players regardless of record will continue to play hard for personal reasons - pride, new contract etc. Such performances can lead teams to victory even though as an overall collective the team did not/does not play hard or well. Again, mitigating factors.

    It would be a nice problem to have, but we will need to see how Moore does moving forward. If this thread was started after the final three games with Moore performing well, it would likely have more traction and evidence than it does now. We just have to see, and take into account who we played in what situations. It is what it is.
     
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  16. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    did you even watch the game and the ducks moore put up? If the jets had a competent defense they could of had at least 5 int's. I prayed for every throw over 10 yards. Punts in this game had less hang time than matt moore passes. If there is a QB controversy it will be matt moore and whoever is behind him.
     
  17. Sloopy

    Sloopy Member

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    If Moore continues to play this way, what's your opinion on Tannehill's future with the team when you consider his future salary cap hits, what the team could get for him in trade, and who the team could replace him with in the draft?
     
  18. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    IMO, it's too early to make a judgement about Moore. It's one game and teams really haven't had time to evaluate him and decide the best way to game plan against him. I know he's a vet and experienced and although there is game tape on him it is five years old. A lot can change in that time frame.

    That said, I like how quick he makes decisions. For better or worse he's gonna sling it. He made some great throws last night, but at the same time I can say Tannehill has made some great throws this year, too. My beef about Tannehill is he is more deliberate and holds the ball longer than I wish he would.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
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  19. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Even if Moore wins these last few games and makes the playoffs I don't think there will be a QB controversy, at least in Adam Gase's mind. Maybe the media will try to spin it that way, but it won't be a real QB controversy.

    Matt Moore played well and obviously has some traits that Tannehill doesn't have enough of, such as aggressiveness in key situations (though Tannehill is getting better at it). That being said, I think Tannehill is overall the better, more complete QB. He is just a more polished and consistent all-around QB than Moore is, IMO, and more reliable over the course of a season.

    Moore is going to have games where he is going to throw 4 TD's as he did last night, but he's also going to have games where he's going to get picked off multiple times, let's hope it doesn't happen this season (or post-season).
     
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  20. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Moore is a great stop gap. He's not half the QB Tannehill is. I like Moore. He's a gamer. He's intelligent. He's competitive. He is not, however, anywhere close to RT.
     
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  21. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    There will be ZERO QB controversy aside from ones fabricated by the Media. Zero. None. Period. Gase knows it, Tannehill knows it and hell Moore probably does to. Enjoy Tannehill starting next year.

    Accepting paypal and forum bets. :lol:
     
  22. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    If Tannehill played the exact same game last night all we'd hear is its 'just the jets' and the 'defense played great'. But since Moore was under center we're superbowl bound with a QB controvery.

    Puhhleaaaaaseeeeeeeee.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
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  23. Linus

    Linus Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Some of what I have read about Tannehill has been pretty unfair (not just this thread). He has been aggressive in big situations this year - pass to Parker against Chargers late, 3rd down against 49ers Stills TD, Bills game icer. Was top 1 or 2 in 40+ yard plays, won 7 out of 8 games, and had a slew of throws that were top 10 countdown type pass plays (from a physical standpoint).

    I loved what Moore did last night and have always been a fan, but Tannehill isn't Chad Henne.
     
  24. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    So criticize Moore the same way you did Tannehill? Don't praise him even a little and just talk about strength of the opponent
     
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  25. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    I've been a big Matt Moore fan. I've called for him to start in years past. And it's tough to come in and excel after 5 long years on the bench. Not to mention on a short week with a baby born during it!

    But the difference in skill was plainly visible last night. Particularly arm strength and accuracy. On a night where the running game struggled, the Jets weren't respecting the QB aspect of the read option whatsoever. You have to with Tannehill and that opens things up.

    The Dolphins score at least 40 with Tannehill at the helm last night. Zero controversy IMHO.

    Solid game for Moore. Here's to him leading us to the playoffs!
     
  26. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    With Tannehill playing last night I think it looks like that last Texans game but better.
     
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  27. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

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    The Jets have a bad secondary and also for some reason didn't respect Moore's ability to throw downfield. The result was predictable.

    Against better teams with better coaches we will see the warts. That's OK, the backup more than did his job the last 2 weeks.
     
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  28. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    There is not and will not be a QB controversy. Anyone who sees Moore and thinks the team needs to make him the starting QB and move on from Tannehill, simply doesn't know a lick of football.

    Forget the kneejerk reaction of a Jets pummeling in which Moore threw just 18 times. Lets also assume Moore plays decent the rest of the year.

    Simple fact of the matter is Moore has a weak arm, terrible footwork and is 32 years old. The talent difference between him and Tannehill is staggering. He is a good backup QB and is nice for the team to have him, but there is no controversy at all.

    Fans needs to learn to enjoy things without creating extra nonsense from it.
     
  29. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I said on Monday that if Moore plays well, there will be hot takes. And the hot takes have arrived.

    Moore is about as good of a backup outside of Dallas that you'll find. He played his game last night and it worked out. Happy as hell for him. 5 years without a start and he made the most of it.

    This is still Ryan Tannehill's team, and he'll be in there without hesitation when he's healthy. The good news is that we have a capable backup who can make plays when called upon. That's what you take out of this, not some bogus QB "controversy".
     
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  30. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    Someone who REALLY gets it. I dont understand why people need to stoke this QB thing. I, once again, assume that Adam Gase knows more about this than all of us and he started Ryan and had Mat as backup. Plus....MOST importantly he STATED that when Ryan is healthy. he is the STARTER...Period. You can use all the conjecturing and IFS and MAYBES but these are the facts
     
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  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    This is exactly right. It's the same old story with the same old posters. When Tannehill is under center, and he puts up top 10 numbers over a 7 or 8 game span, they talk about how it's the defense and receivers or run game. Moore comes in, and they attribute it to Moore. They attribute a losing record to QB play, but when it's not Tannehill under center, they give the QB credit for the win.

    There will be no controversy. The media might try to spin one, because that's what media does, as it generates Web clicks and television views, and some posters on here might try to spin one. However, Gase knows there is none. The players know there is none. Matt freaking Moore knows there is none. Moore knows his job is to come in if Tannehill can't go, and try to win games. He's not going to replace Tannehill.

    Matt Moore is the backup QB from Blue Mountain State.
     
  32. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Imo, shame on you for making this thread op, though it was bound to happen.

    Complete nonsense. Let's at least wait till the buffalo game, a much much harder matchup
     
  33. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I loved the show, lovely comparison lol (I mean it because MM seems like a dude that legitimately enjoys his life)
     
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  34. Runnincm

    Runnincm Active Member

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    Tannehill has played one of the weakest schedules in the NFL and all advanced statistics show him as a below average NFL qb.

    That was an all around great game and it has me excited that Moore is the starting qb.

    He spread the ball around. Landry wasn't targeted 10 times but still had a 100 yard day. That's the type of player Landry needs to be, not the 10 bubble screen a game player.

    Tannehill is like the Vernon gholston of qbs. All the physical talent but just can't seem to put it together. He is a lot better than henne though.

    If Moore finishes the season this well I would happily get rid of Tannehill and his contract.
     
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  35. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Let's be honest here. The Jets looked like a high school team last night.

    I'm super happy for Moore. He's had a hell of a week and he played great but shy of winning the super bowl there's nothing he can do to dethrone tannehill.
     
  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They certainly won't get rid of him this offseason.

    I think the QB position is one Miami needs to address - almost everyone Gase works with looks notably improved, and Miami should leverage that as much as possible. Even if you don't have the stomach to trade Tannehill, you likely will be able to showcase QBs you've drafted, and flip them for a decent profit. Worst case, you actually end up with a better and cheaper QB than Tannehill.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Hahaha

    Oh man, one game from Moore, and they all come out of the woodwork.

    Where were these guys during the win streak, when Tannehill was putting up elite type numbers?
     
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  38. Runnincm

    Runnincm Active Member

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    What elite numbers? When Ajayi was having 200 yard games? When Tannehill put up a huge 14 points against the rams? His 17-28 for 149 against the jets? Or maybe his 6 point performance against the ravens.

    This team is exciting with Moore.
     
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  39. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Turning over QBs is not a winning strategy in the NFL.
     
  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I'm not going to go through and read every post, but if there is a quarterback controversy it's going to be with the fans. Listen, Matt Moore did what he was supposed to do; what he is PAID to do...to come into the game when he's called upon and win games.

    I swear to God in this day and age of football, a back-up quarterback, in the eyes of fickle fans, is supposed to suck to the highest level of sucktivity. When a back-up quarterback starts a game, a team is supposed to lose and lose badly. So when a back-up quarterback starts a game, plays well and wins, there's supposed to be a controversy? Why?

    We are fortunate, so very blessed to have a quarterback like Matt Moore who has chosen to accept his place on this team...as the back-up and to be 100% ready to step in and play when he's called upon. And when Ryan Tannehill is healthy and is ready to play, Moore will graciously go back to his role, being the back-up and doing what he can to help Tannehill AND the Dolphins be successful
     

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