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The dilemma that is Darren Rizzi.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fame, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    We all love Rizzi. He's passionate and great at his current job, but one issue that everyone needs to understand with Rizzi is that he has built up his good will and great reputation while in a job that's completely different from the one he's interviewing for as head coach.

    In his role as ST coordinator and assistant HC, Rizzi has performed exceptionally well on the field and his players obviously adore him. The problem is that is he won't have the same luxuries if he becomes our HC that he was afforded as a coordinator; namely that all the tough decisions would now fall on him. He'll have to make unpopular decisions going forward for the betterment of the team. He will have to cut, trade, or release guys who love him. He will have to tell others they need to take pay cuts, and others that they're no longer going to be playing as much.

    Rizzi did not have to make any of those decisions as a coordinator, and he built up that good will from a position of opportunity. Going forward, it won't be easy to garner the same good will because his job will be much, much tougher. Not impossible, just much much more difficult. So therein lines the dilemma. What happens to a "leader of men", "gets guys fired up" type of coach after they're forced to make the tough HC decisions? He doesn't bring any special offensive or defensive plan to the team, so if he somehow loses that love from his players then he will lose everything. Drake called him a great "players coach", but can that really continue to work if he becomes HC?

    The last time Rizzi was afforded the opportunity as a college head coach, the outcomes were not very good. Why don't I see any of his former college players supporting his potential hire? Why wasn't he able to get those teams to play hard for him and win more?

    He's a great dude and he absolutely deserves the attention he's getting because he's so good at his current job, but is it worth the risk?
     
  2. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Well-Known Member

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    Nice post! I am intrigued by Rizzi, but you make some very good points. Another thing you got me thinking about is as ST coach I am pretty sure that is all he focused on. I know as assistant HC he had other duties to probably help out the HC, but was he really involved in the whole game plan? I wonder what his offensive and defensive philosophy is and what would his plan be to give us a competitive advantage? I am curious to what John Harbaugh did and how he was able to become successful. Surround himself with guys smarter than him and let them do their jobs?
     
    resnor likes this.
  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I know people like to make the Harbaugh comparison, but I find that to be faulty as well.

    Harbaugh was not just a ST guy, but also involved in the defense as DB coach too. He also came from extensive time under Andy Reid, who has shown an ability to produce good coaches. I'm not sure Rizzi really has a comparable background or mentor.
     
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  4. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    If we are going this route, I'd rather hire Dan Campbell who while not an offensive guru, certainly understands that side of the ball.

    I'd see if Rizzi would stay in his current role and Campbell would probably not mind.

    However, Campbell isnt my top choice.
     
    texanphinatic likes this.
  5. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Well-Known Member

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    That's fair. I guess we would have to say Rizzi had extensive time under coaches who weren't exactly successful as Dolphin HC's (Sporano, Bowles, Philbin, Carpenter, Gase). Yikes! With all the HC's that specialize now, I am not sure what attributes we should be looking for in a HC.
     
  6. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I love Rizzi and I'm glad he's getting the exposure and interview. I don't want him as the HC, but I will be sorry if/when he leaves.

    Bienemy or Fangio are my top picks.

    I also like Flores.
     
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  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    We need to stop finding benchmarks that apply to groups and then use them to grade individuals.

    Examples of things that don't actually matter in the coaching search:

    - HC experience.
    We've had coaches with and without HC experience in pros and college and they've all meant nothing. If people would rather have a HC with experience over a HC rookie, then should we hire Philbin? Cameron? Gase? Fisher?

    - Age.
    Young coaches win. Young coaches lose. Old coaches win. Old coaches lose. Age doesn't matter.

    - Experience on a given side of the ball.
    Same as young and old, defensive coaches win and lose as do offensive coaches.

    This stuff is all chaff. None of these are really indicators of future success. We need to look for indicators that actually apply to the job of being a HC.

    Like:
    - Organized.
    - Leader.
    - Recognize coaching talent.
    - Quick and decisive decision making.
    - Ability to adapt to talent on team.

    Find the people that check those boxes.
     
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  8. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Well-Known Member

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    Fin D: That was what I was alluding too when I asked about HC attributes. Are we over thinking it? Does Rizzi have those attributes you listed?
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Honestly I don't know if he does.

    I don't think we can know, to tell the truth. There's lots of qualifying information we aren't privy to, as outsiders.

    I know there's a segment of the football fans that think ST coaches are better suited to becoming HCs because they have to cobble together a functioning unit out of leftovers. To do that, they have to be very flexible and work around their talent. Which is all true and speaks well to becoming a HC. On the other hand though, STs is the one unit that can be perceived completely different by one really good player: kicker or returner.

    For me, the first thing I would look for, was the coach a successful coordinator running different systems. But even that is hard is because systems have become the main focus for lots of coaches.
     
    Surfs Up 99 likes this.
  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I say give rizzi the job. He deserves it, there are no other demosntrably better candidates out there right now and I am not willing to mortgage the future to trade for john harbaugh. Harbaugh also used to be a st coach. Give rizzi the shot at least for one season then reevaluate.
     
  11. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I mean, what do you mean by "demonstrably"?

    As for the Harbaugh to Rizzi comparison, I feel it is innacurate - see my post above.
     
    danmarino likes this.
  12. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, Fangio has demonstrated for years that he's a great coach. Flores took over from Patricia, albeit with BB still there, and has the Pats defense ranked 7th in the NFL. I think that demonstrates good coaching. Bienemy and Harbaugh have demonstrated that they are good coaches. Rizzi has done the same. I don't understand the opinion that Rizzi "deserves" it anymore than these other guys. All may turn out as busts or all may turn out to be HoF caliber...

    Saying that, people like who they like...even if they feel the need to make up stuff in order to push their agendas.

    I have my favorites: Fangio and Bienemy. Not because I think they "deserve", but because they both have been extremely successful and both have had assistant HC experience (like Rizzi), but for longer. Not to mention the Andy Reid coaching tree has done great things and Fangio has led very good defenses.
     
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  13. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Rizzi isn’t getting this job. I think the owner is going to stay away from hot head coaches.
     
  14. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Well-Known Member

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    Not that things are set in stone for me regarding Rizzi or any HC candidate, but you are beginning to sway me on Fangio and Bienemy. I understand ST is equally important as the defense and offense, but of the 3 it might be an easier position to fill. Especially if Rizzi decided to stay. Having a HC who brings a certain specialty in either defense or offense to the table might be the way to go.
     
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  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    None of the othee candidate being talked about have HC experience. They are just good coordinators same as rizzi. Rizzi has a history with us and has the backing of the players. He is a proven leader and motivator which is the most important trait we should be looking for in HC imo.
     
  16. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Fango has demonstrated for years he is a great defensive coordinator. Rizzi has demonstrated for years he is a great ST coach and natural leader and motivator as evidenced by his countless player endorsements.

    None of the coaches being considered have any head coaching experience except for harbaugh so no they are not demonstrably better than rizzi, and I'm not in favor of giving up first round picks for harbaugh so no, just hire rizzi. He has been with us for years and has earned his shot.
     
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  17. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I don’t want him as HC we need new blood all around. Our special teams has been nothing special IMHO
     
  18. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't want Rizzi as HC, but his ST have been some of the best in the league for years.
     
  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    He's also been our assistant head coach. :smile:
     
  20. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    So we are going to rely on a gm who has been with us for 20 years and has won nothing while also promoting an assistant coach who has been with us for 10 years and has won nothing? Typical Dolphins.
     
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  21. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    huh?
     
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  22. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Just using your to reply to Tony...

    The Dolphins have had 3 head coaches we've had with NFL head coaching experience; Don Shula (Baltimore Colts), Jimmy Johnson (Dallas Cowboys) and Dave Wannstedt (Chicago Bears)...and that was the last time we were significant.

    Since then, it's been an experiment of giving a shot to coordinators (Cameron, Philbin, Gase), position coaches (Sparano) and college head coaches (although we BLEW it with Saban). The experiment has not panned out well for our team.

    We need to get a head coach with NFL head coaching experience, proven winners as coordinators and pray that Grier will execute EVP of Football Ops as it needs to be.
     
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  23. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    I would rather have a HC that actually WANTS to coach the Miami Dolphins, than a coach that wants the highest bidder. I would like a team that is loyal to the coach as the coach is loyal to the team. That would be my favorite situation.

    As sad as it may seem, Munchak may be the right coach. Not for reasons I just said, but he has HC experience and he coaches the position group that I believe Miami has been pitiful at for the longest time. As few have said here, if the OLine were good, our QB would be HOF bound.
     
  24. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    Love ya man but never use Wannstedt as an example of when we were successful. He was the one that started this decline. The team won in spite of him, not because of him.
     
  25. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End

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    LOL, well I dont know about hum being "HOF bound" but i do agree the offensive line has been horrible for YEARS!
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    All of them started as rookie HCs.
     
  27. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. People still don’t understand that being a great assistant coach doesn’t mean anything when it comes to a head coach? I’m not saying Rizzi is guaranteed to be a great head coach, it’s more about management, motivating(players and coaches), relationships(players and coaches) and putting people in the right place to be successful(players and coaches) more than it has to do with schemes.

    We don’t know how any of the coaches will transition, but Rizzi is clearly a great motivator and great with relationships.
     
  28. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    One thing is for sure, ALL of the available options for HC have some serious red flags and/or question marks. None of the candidates are head and shoulders better than the others. The options are so uninspiring that our ST coordinator seems to be the fan front-runner for HC.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  29. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Yeah it's a pretty underwhelming group but that's what happens when your business is run on emotion instead of logic. Should have let Gase and Tannehill stay one more year and then do our organizational changes in 2020 when much better candidates would be available
     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree I drink your milkshake! Club Member

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    Jimmy Johnson was one of the best rookie head coaches
     
  31. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Please, just no on Rizzi. Sure, I can see giving him an interview out of respect, and I think he's a great ST's coach, and from the sounds of it the players love him.

    NONE of that leads me to believe that he'd make a great HC.

    He's learned under some very poor to underwhelming HC's. And his only stint as a HC was in college where he was really bad.

    This franchise needs fresh blood.

    Fangio
    Bienemy
    Flores
     
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  32. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Are you serious?
     
  33. JamesyEsq

    JamesyEsq Active Member

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    As long as you pair Rizzi with a very experienced OC and DC then i think he is the perfect guy for the job. I would love to see..

    HC/ST - Rizzi
    DC - Todd Bowles
    OC - Jim Caldwell
     
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  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Beg to differ Tony. Shula was already a Super Nowl appearing coach with the Colts, having lost the Namath and the Jets.

    Johnson has already won the Super Bowl with the Cowboys
     
  35. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Just pointing out the facts
     
  36. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Who has Fangio learned under?

    What on earth suggests Flores would be a good HC? I’m asking seriously.
     
  37. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    I’m in for this.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    You misunderstand because I wasn’t clear but All head coaches start as rookies. In fact Don Shula and Jimmy Johnson each made it to the Super Bowl with their original teams.
     
  39. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Thought you meant they were rookies in Miami. Sorry
     
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  40. Fame

    Fame Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately, Rizzi is probably the right call to make, not because he's the best option available but because it makes the most sense for a complete gut job. He may have some input on roster decisions, but he isn't going to have any control over the players we bring in, so he won't necessarily impact the direction of the franchise. That being the case, there's nothing really lost if he turns out to be a bad coach over the next 2-3 years.

    Rizzi isn't necessarily the most talented option, but he's definitely the no-cost, high upside, low downside option. If he's awesome, great. If he sucks, no big deal because the guys we would pass on to hire him all seem risky anyway.

    There's no question Rizzi most likely doesn't pan out though and we're looking for a new coach again once we rebuild the trenches and get a real QB, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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