The Dark Knight Spoiler thread. Don't come in if you haven't seen the movie.

I just hope they got a good actor who can accomplish with what they want to accomplish.

 

oh god.....sorry brotha, I love ya and everything....but matt damon as riddler would be TERRIBLE...imho....

although that's what they said at first when ledger was casted....

but it just doesn't fit for me...

 

I'll trust whoever Nolan casts

 

I just saw the Dark Knight, and I gotta say, holy friggin cow. The joker doesnt play. That movie was BY FAR the best Batman movie EVER. It truly captured what Gotham and Batman are really about. Gotham has always been a metaphor to our own society. It's really sad that there are far too many jokers in the real world, but far too few people who would carry the burden that Batman puts upon himself for the sake of others. Maybe GW Bush is Batman, maybe hes the joker, who knows. But if Osama Bin Laden were to take off his mask and turn himself in, how many troops would stop dying? If we had more oil and a booming economy, would our presence in Iraq be the same? I think Heath Ledger was a brilliant man, a true artist. His execution of his role was one of the best performances Ive ever seen.

 

Matt Damon is too dry to play the riddler. He is hardly the type to play a "witty" type of role.

You basically described Jim Carrey.

Jim Carrey has acting chops. Look at some of his roles. he can play "dark". he can play goofy and funny as well.

 

Regardless, there is no formula that people have to follow in any movie. There is no "this is how movies work" at play. It's up to Nolan and only him (or whoever decides to take the reins). You might as well say you know for sure that the Two-Face in Batman Forever lives and believe me there are those that still adamantly believe in that (ironically also a fall).

Exactly my point. At this point we don't know anything except that Bale is signed on for the 3rd movie and Rachel's dead as a doorknob (or is she? ). We will have to wait and see on Joker's and Two-Face's fate then. Until then, NOBODY can say they know for sure if they're dead, gone, or not.

 

Honestly I think Matt would be good. It is my opinion what makes the Riddler, the Riddler is the fact that he is cocky. He is a cocky son of a *****. The Riddler of the campy tv show was goofy/funny/witty.

The Riddler is a genius, who knows he is a genius and who may or may not be obsessively complusive in leaving clues on how to catch him. I read something that compared the Riddler with the real life Ted Bundy. The type of guy who commits the crimes and gets the jollies off the fact that even with the clues the police cannot catch him.

 

IF, and this is just an IF, they make a 3rd, and the Riddler is to be in it, I personally don't think there is anyone better for the role than Edward Norton. Of course, with his Hulk ties, he may not be able to fulfill my dream casting.

 

I think Alan Tudyk can pull off the Riddler. He can be funny without being silly and over the top like Carey.

 

He is dead.

A). Story is complete
B). They found him dead unlike the other guy who Batman dropped
C). Had a funeral for him

In Conclusion: Dead

 

A). Is it?
B). Did they really?
C). Did you see his body? They said that he was never found after the hospital exploded.

He is not dead

A) ruins the story
B) Batman is not a murderer
C) Film point forshadowing points to him surviving

 

What does the hospital explosion have to do with this? We saw Eckart long after that scene.

I agree the story is complete with two-face, they could always make up more, but he's served the purpose Nolan wanted him to serve. He pretty clearly wasnt writing him in this movie to set him up for the 3rd one.

It wouldnt make Batman a murderer, he wasnt trying to kill Dent, he was trying to save the boy.

I dont think it's impossible that Two-Face is still alive, I'm not convinced he is but it's possible. Not sure how you can possibly claim with such certainly that he is alive though.

 

The hospital scene is what was shown to the general public. After that no one knew where harvey dent was.

He chose one life over another. That makes him an executioner.

 

carrey is excentric. and his style is worn out now. we will have to disagree on damons abilities though.

 

A) Ruins the story for you maybe, but it makes sense to have Dent's story completed (already encompassed his rise and fall).
B) Yes, he's not, he grabbed Gordon's kid but that bumped Dent over and Batman can only save the kid and not both.
C) List the film points so I can debunk them as shown.

 

A). Yes, it is. His story was a revenge story. He succumbed to the Joker's plans of taking the best of us and turning him into the worst of us. It was a small part as two face, but perfectly done. The character is to unrealistic to continue with. It works great as temporary insanity.

He judged everyone he needed to. End story. Perfectly tied together.

B). Yes... Right in front of their eyes. Dead.

C). Ugh... They only said that because that was the PLAN. Harvey dies a hero, Batman takes the fall for the murders. They made it up to cover up his crimes.

A). In your opinion. I think it worked to perfection. Again, Two Face is not a realistic character for Nolan's franchise. With the parameters Nolan laid out (Temp insanity/Revenge plot) it worked seamlessly. Any continuation of two face would be redundant and ruin the story, IMO.

B). He's what ever Gotham needs him to be, according to Batman. It wasn't Murder in cold blood. It was accidental by all counts.

C). No it doesn't. Never at any point. All evidence to the contrary is in the minds of the people who want to believe he is alive.

 

lol, to say an accidental killing is an execution is ridiculous. It may fit in with your theory but it certainly doesnt make it true.

 

Also, if he isnt dead and Dent just comes back in the next movie doesnt that defeat the entire point of Batman taking the fall for the killings and letting the city chase him? It makes the entire end of this movie pointless to an extent.

 

Looks like your mind is made up and you are not into a debate

 

It doesn't make the end of the movie pointless. It is something that can come back and bite them in the butt in the future.

 

Yes it would.

 

Jack Black as the Penguin would be pretty sweet. just for fun.

 

I don't expect this to be a question that gets answered during the next film, barring a change in director or something catastrophic like that. I can see the argument around why is or is not dead, but I personally believe that Dent is probably stashed somewhere in Arkham, along with the Scarecrow and Joker. I think it's cool that Nolan left it open-ended like that so that we, as fans, can discuss the merits and meaning behind what he was intending. It's all according to plan ...

 

WOW...IMDB now has over 69,000 votes so...it is nearing a pretty solid overall rating.

it now has a 9.6 for #1 alltime.

 

Are we not led to believe that Ras al'Guhl in BB is dead? (Forget about his immortal comic book storyline) Therefore, wouldnt Batman be a killer based on his actions if indeed Ras al'Guhl is dead? Is Two-Face's potential for being dead and Batman's actions any different?

I know folks hold onto the "Batman doesnt kill" mantra, but the way they are filming this series with all the explosions, lethal projectiles from his bat-suit, bullets (I thought they were bullets being fired???) from Bat-cycle, etc, it sure seems like the likelihood is very high that he could contribute to the death of an adversary!

Am I way off base on Nolan's style here?

 

You're right. There's no way that Batman would consider Two-faces' death an execution. The first movie established that Batman does kill. He just won't be an executioner.

 

I would say the same for you considering you keep claiming for sure Dent is alive without providing any conclusive proof or even considering the other side. I want to know what film points you have and you aren't giving. And before you have any misconceptions on where I stand on Dent's status, I believe it's ambiguous and can go any way. I can see how he can be alive but there is nothing short of a statement by Nolan, Eckhart or the actual 3rd movie itself which will let you say for sure as you are doing right now that Dent is alive.

 

i don't see how they can have Two-Face come back. Batman and Gordan were standing RIGHT THERE and one of them would have noticed if he still had a pulse or was breathing. Not only is the character itself too unrealistic to bring back but him coming back itself would be too unrealistic.

 

But it didn't.

 

I would love to perform the Pencil Trick on a few of my fellow co-workers ASAP.

 

although i disagree whole heartedly about your opinions regarding kate as catwoman(she has many wonderful dramatic performances and could play catwoman in her sleep, and physically fits the role to a tee), i agree about two-face 100%.
they try to keep these movies somewhat human and feasible. with batman and gordon hovering dent, i'd think they'd be able to tell if he was dead or not. and didnt gordon even make mention of batman breaking his rule? and batman mentions how you DIE a hero. i dont think theres any metaphor here. the point was the gotham citizens not freakin out because dent turned bad. dent can't die, and have two-face live on, and pull this notion off. they'd be like "hey, that half skull face guy is harvey dent, look, the other side of his face is perfect. we're screwed!" i think we're reading too much into things. and i do agree, that the character two-face was short-lived.

now i gotta go back and read the other half of this thread.

 

Two-Face dead or alive?

I really don't think it is that ambiguous, I think he is dead. Is there wiggle room? Sure. So far in this series two major characters have been presumed dead, only to turn up later in the same film. The reason I doubt he is alive is because I don't see the payoff in having him turn up again in a later film.

Where did they put him? Did they send him out of town after he was threatening the lives of Gordon's family? How do they cover up holding a funeral for him and still putting him in Arkham?

Give me a good story that audiences wouldn't just laugh off as bull****. And give me a good reason to hold onto a twist like that for a third or fourth film that Nolan and his writing team aren't even committed to yet. I just don't see the purpose of Batman and Gordon pretending that Dent is dead without one line of dialogue after he laid lifeless that would suggest why.

I disagree with others who claim that Dent's story is completely over. I think that the story they suggest is to come would have to deal with Batman's redemption, and Two-Face fits that perfectly. Until they showed Dent's funeral I was hoping that Gordon and Batman were discussing letting Harvey go, out of guilt or something. But if Nolan intended to leave it truly ambiguous there would have been something in that final scene to suggest Two-Face survived the fall. There was nothing.

I also hate when they kill the villains in these movies. Having them locked up with the threat of escape is one of the best parts. I loved getting the little cameo from Scarecrow. I would love to have a reason to believe that Two-Face is still alive, I really would, but if they brought him back, I and 99% of the audience would feel cheated. Because they made it very clear that for the purposes of The Dark Knight that Two-Face is dead.

 

that, and his chat with harvey were the two funniest scenes in the movie.

the line about being a dog chasing a car, for the sake of chasing it, not knowing what to do if he ever actually caught it was wonderful.

 

I like her a lot. She fit's the physical mold. But she is british, which may help. But I don't know of anything I've really liked her acting in. Can she even pull off an American accent?

If someone can think of an extremely talented British or Australian actress, Nolan seems to love hiring non-Americans to play Americans, who fits catwoman I'd love to hear it.

Kate Beckinsale
Naomi watts
Rachel Weisz
Helena Bonham Carter
Cate Blanchett

For the Riddler, I'd suggest the guy who Nolan used in Memento: Guy Pearce.

 

I found her impression of Ava Gardner in the Aviator was pretty darn good. The Last Days of Disco is another that I've heard where she does a very good performance (won her some top London award I believe). She can act if given a good role and a good director at the helm. Honestly, she's better than all the other female actresses that have been in Nolan's Batman films.

 

i agree. great post. sure theres always wiggle room. and the whole two-face thing was forced in my opinion...and rushed.
they rushed him out of the hospital, had him flippin coins and shooting people all over gotham in a rushed manner. it was almost getting to be too much. why do this, if theres a whole future for him? i'd have kept him under wraps much more, if i had plans to resurrect him in the future, but the simple fact that he flipped on a dozen lives in half an hour, left me with the strong feeling like they were trying to get everything they could out of this character, because this was it for him.

this movie isnt really like the sopranos series finale. it kind of is what it is. you can conspire about characters pronounced dead, being alive, and say that its your opinion/theory. but if you tell me harvey dent is alive in this series, i'm telling you you're wrong. and thats something i hate to do, because its rude.

 

she was supposed to be great in Closer. and guy pearce can play a great nerdy, arrogant prick, like in LA Confidential.

 

The only purpose at this point for Two Face to come back is to hold a fake trial against Batman like in the comics, but even then, why bother?

 

The Riddler? Hmmm..