The Dark Knight Spoiler thread. Don't come in if you haven't seen the movie.

Maybe more accurate would be X-men 3. Both in terms of a new director taking over and re-using the same Villain with same plot (Mags and war on humans) I've always thought the entire SM franchise was overrated.

Agree with you on all counts.

 

Well #1 simple movie logic. #2 batman doesn't kill. If Two-Face is dead then the whole movie was a waste of time and he should of just ran over the Joker. He kills Two-Face, Joker wins as he turns batman into a murderer.

It cannot go either way. It can only go one way for the movie to work.

 

He shouldn't try to duplicated it. He should try to create the best movie he can.

I don't see the Riddler as a serial killer murderer. That doesn't fit any characterization I have read about of that character. He would fit as a pompus ***hole who is there to match wits with Batman.

 

I don't see it that way. It can be said that Batman was trying to push Two-Face to prevent him from shooting an innocent kid and his dad, had to react quickly to do so, didn't think if a 3 story fall could lead to death since Maroni didn't die and neither did Batman.

Nolan made his death ambiguous. That means you cannot say for certain he is dead and he is not. His death is not definitive and his being alive is not definitive as well. Nobody knows except Nolan and maybe not even him. There is no "one way". You can swing it in different directions.

 

I wouldnt be suprised if they do this with the next one:

2 Face doesnt die, but somehow he gets revenge on the Joker and kills him for what he did to Rachel. Obv this would have to be summed up and explained that it happened between films. This way the Joker is gone and 2 Face is still there. But if they throw in another villain besides Scarecrow or Raj, I would be clueless as to who it may be.

 

What makes me think that he is dead is that his character ark that was created for this movie was completed as far as I'm concerned. If Nolan does bring him back I dont think it was intention all along. I believe he said he wasnt thinking about a 3rd movie at all when writing this one, so I dont think he was really consciously setting up two-face for the third movie. It could work out that way, but it could be cheesy because I dont think that was necessarily the plan all along. I also think the two-face that Nolan created can be a villain that carries a movie. Two-face could be a part of it, but he'd still have include someone else.

 

I had one problem with this film (I thought it was Oscar nomination worthy BTW).

The Joker has/was/always been a Chemical expert.

Why no Chemical weapons? I think it would have been cool if they still kept that part of The Joker lore in The Dark Knight.

 

That is not how movies work. If a 3 story fall doesn't lead to Maroni's death and then it doesn't lead to Two-Faces. Unless that is part of the story and the next movie is going to have Batman feel guilty about killing Two-Face.

I can say he is not dead, because he is not.

 

I don't agree that if Two-face is dead then it made the movie meaningless. Batman had to act to save the kid. He didn't specifically try to kill Two-face. And IMO Two-face is dead. Some director may decide to bring him back later but in this script he is meant to be dead.

 

I agree whole-heartedly that this movie should garner consideration as Best Picture of the Year, as it stands right now.

I like the fact that the Joker didn't really specialize in anything, except for causing chaos. The unpredictability was a nice touch. The hospital scene was fantastic.

 

Yeah, they definitely could have at least suggested it, even if he never got around to using them. But after a chemical weapon attack was so central to the plot in Batman Begins, I understand why they stayed away from it this time around.

 

No kidding, Nurse Joker walking away, a little miffed that the hospital didn't blow, repeatedly clicking the button on the detonator was priceless. I also liked the inmate on the ferry taking the detonator from the guards hand and chucking it out the window,

 

yeah how great was Nurse Joker???
he looked hilarious

 

He wasn't walking, he was skipping because he was so excited with what was about to happen. Then he had a medium explosion, which was okay, and then he got what he really wanted. It was a perfect summation of the character without saying anything.

 

I seen it last night, definitely one of the best movies as of late. I felt Ledger played the Joker extremely well and I think it would be crazy for anyone to even try to follow up and fill his shoes. There's absolutely no way the public would accept the new Joker, just no way...

I think this is Oscar Award material, but I know some people are calling it the greatest movie of all time, which I don't agree. (Maybe not people here, but I have heard this thrown around). Everything was well done, there wasn't really anything that seem to get boring or anything. Overall a great performance as a whole, definitely one of the best movies this year.

 

That moment summarized the entire approach to the Joker, and the approach to the movie that Nolan was taking. Just a moment after laughing out loud at the Joker clicking the button then sprinting away once it finally blew, Nolan held on the wide shot of the hospital blowing up. And he reminded you that The Joker is a terrorist and I felt a little guilty about laughing.

 

New avatar

 

I dont see any Comic book film topping this.

He woudlnt take the role, He only stars in a movie once every 7 years.

He can beat people to death with a bowling pin!

 

I would very much like to see you fall 3 stories head or back first and see if you're still around to post here. Maroni went feet first so head and spine stay intact. There's a lot of things Batman can feel guilty for in the next movie (i.e. Rachel's death, etc) so just tack that on to the list. I can believe a 3rd Batman movie that ties in his guilt and dark dilemmas into a redemption.

You cannot say he's not dead. You don't know for sure. Probably not even Nolan knows. That's why it's ambiguous at best (though I think it's more likely he's dead than Ra's Al-Ghul). Heck, people were still saying Ra's Al-Ghul is still alive and this whole Dent affair could be no different.

 

I think you guys are looking too hard into this. There is no way of knowing until Nolan/Bale/someone involved with the franchise to confirm it, and we wont know for some time.

 

That's a good call. I completely missed that.

I think that bringing Ras al'Guhl back from the dead would really be stretching things. I mean, a train dropped on him, and then it exploded. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I think Nolan probably cares more about the credibility of his work than that.

I thought TDK was a fantastic movie. Definitely an 8.5 or 9 out of 10. But I'm left with some concerns. Frankly, I'm worried that they're repeating some of the mistakes of the first Batman series. I mean, the movie is called "The Dark Knight", not "The Joker, Harvey Dent, Jim Gordon, and Oh Yeah, That Batman Guy, Too." As awesome as Heath Ledger was (and man, did he knock that role out of the park; I seriously did not know he had it in him), it still felt more like an ensemble movie than a movie about a superhero. No, we're not at "Batman and Robin" level yet, not even close, thank goodness, but I am concerned.

Now, if they come back in 3 years and the movie is essentially Batman vs. the GCPD, forget I said anything. But if the movie ends up featuring The Penguin, The Riddler, a resurrected Two-Face, Catwoman and Jack Nicholson as The Joker, all engaged in a giant, scheming plot, I'm going to be seriously pissed. I don't think that's going to happen, but I'm very worried about the "too many villains, too many characters" direction.

 

I seriously think people think I am nuts when I watch movies like this at the parts I laugh at. I cracked up during the pen trick.

 

It is a movie. Unless pointed out, everything works the same. That is how American movies work.

I do know. He is not dead. Ra's is a bit ambiguous as you did not see him die. There wasn't any forshadowing in the movie about him surviving the situation.

Honestly, you are not giving Nolan enough credit.

 

Ugh. No offense, but I hope you're wrong. If you're going to kill off The Joker, at least do it on film.

 

If you're nuts, so was the entire group of people I saw the movie with. Just about everyone in the audience was howling at the pencil trick, myself included, of course. That was one of my all-time favorite moments of black comedy.

 

Give us Batman vs the PD, as he is forced to redeem his name and toss in a little of this guy just for kicks.

 

I feel the mistakes of the first Batman Series was that Warner Bros wanted to sell toys to kids instead of trying to make a good movie. The first two movies, they did not seem to know exactly where they wanted to go with the film. They did decide to do a comic book movie that was a little dark. The third movie and fourth movie they practically went the route of turning the Adam West tv show and taking it in the modern day. With over the top villans who design their outfits for all their thugs.

 

Ya but that means replacing him so good luck on that task.

 

This is what I'm hoping for. Well, not Clayface, but Batman vs. the cops. Maybe create some corrupt cops as the real villains or something. Not every movie needs a MEGA-VILLAIN, you know. Besides, any attempt to create one after Ledger's Joker performance is doomed to failure anyway.

I think that's a very accurate assessment, and I dearly hope they've learned from their mistakes. TDK has the potential to be better for me with the next installment, if I'm assured that they're not headed down the "ensemble cast" road. Then, I might upgrade it to a 9.5 or 10. But right now, my concerns prevent me from doing that.

 

Dude, you do not know for sure Two-Face is not dead. You can conjecture all you want, but you don't know. And this is no ordinary "American" movie. There is no textbook that says everything must be the same in a movie.

And I will note that I've heard the movie novelization has him dead .

 

Yeah Clayface was a joke, actually. Batman vs the cops, throw in Catwoman and the mob and you've got an interesting flick.

 

Got an idea for the next villain.

Batman.

vs. the Gotham PD. That is what the movie suggests, that is what it should be.

If they must use a "villain". Then I say riddler. You can probably get Jim Carrey to reprise the role. (Nolan style of course)

 

Penguin would be good if youre considering a plot with Batman vs. the Cops. Penguin, as Oswald Copplepot, runs as mayor on a campaign against Batman and wants to "empower the police". Similar to returns, but you can make him less disgusting and more of a guy who makes the police force even more corrupt

 

how awesome is this fan made poster??

 

It would bring back too many memories from the last series and no matter how good/different he played the part that stigma would hurt this new franchise. IMHO, of course.

 

I think whoever the "villain" is Batman vs the cops will be a good part of the first half of the movie. Then perhaps this villain forces the city to turn back to Batman for help, or Batman is left to question why he's risking his life to fight this villain for people who are so ungrateful. I think Nolan would find someone new for the Riddler, if he goes in that direction. I was watching the Carey movie yesterday, and Nolan can definitely find someone better.

 

i didnt like carrey as the riddler. Id prefer someone who is really good with witty type roles. Believe it or not, I think Matt Damon would make an incredible riddler. But only if he followed Ledgers lead and took it to the next level.

 

This is a normal american movie.