The Dark Knight Spoiler thread. Don't come in if you haven't seen the movie.

The reason why I think it would be a mistake is that it would be too much like the Joker. I would be afraid to have "The Joker Light" which I feel a serial killer Riddler would be.

I think he could be as dark and "Killer" as ever, however I believe it would work better if he just didn't care about people because they weren't as smart as him.

I just feel, "Killing for enjoyment", how is it THAT much different than the Joker.

 

CW is a good character, shes a turncoat, freelancing vigilante who sometimes helps Batman and sometimes helps the supervillians. Her real ID, Selina Kyle, is not like the one in "Returns" or the atrocious Halle Berry version, but rather shes a complex woman whom Bruce Wayne becomes entangled with. She would work for a Nolan story because of her complexity. You just never know what side she is on.

 

I guess I don't follow. The joker and Riddler are two very different characters with entirely different modus operandi. There would be little similar if the Riddler were a serial killer (which he is).

I agree in part. That's part of his egoism.

It's not, but he doesn't kill for enjoyment. He does it as a larger part of a game (death traps). He commits crime for the challenge. The thrill of getting away with it. Taunting his victims and police with clues they aren't smart enough solve.

 

You also have to know that all supervillians kill for the enjoyment, thats a given. But Batman characters are complex and have depth, theres soemthing bigger to their crimes than just doing it because they like it.

 

Is Gambol supposed to be dead when the Joker cuts his face?

 

You could die from a relatively short fall, it all depends on how you land.
You fall off a two story building and land on your neck or head, you're pretty much a goner.

 

I think so but when you think about it you wouldn't think that would kill him.

 

meh...he probably just passed out and then someone killed him, to please the Joker.

 

Ya I was wondering the same thing. I always thought Michael Jai White was pretty bad *** so I wouldnt mind seeing his character grow. If he had more of a story, Id rather see him then the Scarecrows goofy *** for 5 mins.

 

Is it just me or does anyone else find it kind of hard to realistically think the Joker would really be able to do the things he does. Specifically the pencil scene. Although it was extremely amusing, after he killed somebody like that in a room full of thugs, wouldnt you think one of them would of capped his ***? Same thing with the scene where he lights the money on fire.

 

Suspend. Disbelief. Its Batman, not Law and Order: Gotham City.

 

lol I kno Im real critical of things like that.

 

Oh yea I get liek that too. Im still wondering how Gordon figured out how to drive the Batmobile in Begins.

 

Looking at that makeup, I have to wonder something. Take a look at the picture closely.

The left side looks like a clean cut, almost as if someone had taken a knife and cut. This would jive with the Joker's story about his father early in the film.

The right side looks a lot rougher, almost as if it had been cut multiple times by razor blades. This would explain the self-mutilation story he tells later in the film.

Is it possible the Joker wasn't lying at all, and was, in fact, playing a joke on us by telling us the whole truth?

 

Could be. The thing with his father could be that thing that pushed him over the edge.

 

I explained in an earlier post that the Joker was telling us bits and pieces of his origin.

 

Not sure really, but if you think about it for a guy that has been stealing all their money to come and interrupt their meeting and then promptly after killing Gamble's goon with a pencil I think they would hear him out. Then when Gamble himself got up to do it himself Joker was ready to pull a grenade and kill everyone.

Wasn't the Hispanic dude the only one there with a few of his boys when he lit the money on fire and was outnumbered by a lot compared to Jokers men. I think that was the case and he clearly had no chance against Joker, when he said his men were working for him now and then threatened to chop him up the guy looked scared ****.


Edit: And a guy who wears war paint on his face you know something isn't right and that in itself can make people feel a little uneasy even gangsters.

 

I duno, Im not a gangster, but if I saw a talking mime who looked like he drunkenly painted his face I dont think intimidated would be the word.

The Hispanic dude Im not sure about but that might of been the case, cant remember.

All those gangs were kind of ******* imo tho. That asian dude was a joke. I wish they would of had Falconi in this one, he was a proper mobster.

 

maroni looked like a smart *** weasel, not a tough mobster. I agree, the goons looked like worse than the half *** guys batman fights in the comics.

 

Maroni was a joke. Neither were tough guy mobsters like Gamble. But that scene with Falconi in his restaurant when he gives that power speech was great.

 

ya that was good. The gangsters were the only problem I had with this film.

 

Just saw the movie. It was amazing. Ledger was amazing and I am instantly bummed again about him dieing. They hinted toward the end that he had a feeling that they (Batman/Joker) would be doing this forever. I think it is obvious they planned on using him again in the future.

I also think the plan was to kill Two Face. I don't think he is a strong enough villain to carry a third film. I think the initial plan was probably to kill him and have The Joker carry the third one again.

Characters like Black Mask, Zsasz, Bane and Firefly are easy enough to build a story around and still keep with the grittiness of this series. Black Mask is very itruiging and Firefly could work in terms of having a lot of fire and explosions (he is a pyro).

Whatever it is, they need to make sure they don't do one of the silly villains like Killer Croc who is a mutant. Keep it within reason, and we will buy in.

I think the key to the villains in this series is the believability behind them. There is a certain grit and gravitas that makes them seem real. That is why Ledger and Nolan should be praised like they have been. They didn't over do it with the Joker. His hair wasn't crazy green and the clothes were a dingy purple. The facepaint covered up the scars on his face instead of some ridiculous storyline of falling into a vat of acid which made him smile like that permanently.

They made an over the top villain seem real. And that is rare.

I trust Nolan, but I doubt you would see that form someone like Mr. Freeze, The Penguin or Poison Ivy. I also think that those characters have left a bad taste in the fans mouth and should probably be better served to stay away from.

I do think Philip Seymor Hoffman could play an excellent villain.

 

BRAVO! Your reasons are the exact reason I love these two new Batmans. I would like to see a return of the Joker though.

 

How about Kate Beckinsale as catwoman?

 

The New Batmobile

This is going to used in the next Batman movie.

 

Bruce Wayne's company tanks in the ever dwindling economy and Lucius Fox quits and begins working for the government, no longer caring for Batman. Wayne cant let go of Batman, with the Tumbler destroyed in the Joker chase scene, he has to get a car from CarMax and turns it into the next Batmobile.

 

Well, it is a Benz...

 

looks more like a beat old volvo

 

I saw the movie again in Imax over the weekend, unbelievable. It just gets better every time I see it. And Imax is pretty amazing.

I had a question. At the end when Gordon and Batman are talking, Gordon says 5 people are dead, 2 of them cops. The implication is that Dent killed these people and someone has to be held responsible, in steps Batman and we know the rest. Who are the 5 people that Dent killed though. The mafia head and his driver, the old bald cop in the bar and?

 

The camera pans away when he uses the knife. For all we know once he got done telling him the story about where is scars came from he dropped the knife to his throat.

If the gangsters had pulled out a gun he would have simply reached for his grenades and that'd be that. Not to mention they were interested in what he had to say and probably couldnt care less about some enforcer for another mob guy.

As for the money, the Hispanic guy stepped up immediately and Joker and his men were ready for it. Most of the people around the money were Jokers guys.

 

I saw it again tonight too, 3rd time. My dad wasn't quite convinced the first time so I went with him and I think he was convinced. I wish I could see it in IMAX though.

I was wondering about Dent's body count too. I can't think of who he killed aside from who Don listed.

 

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the...fice_guru_wrapup_the_bat_smashes_more_records

 

he would make a great Riddler...

but he also might be the only guy (off the top of my head) to get inside the Joker character and due it justice after Heath Ledger defined it for the ages.

if they bring back the Joker, and if they continue past number 3 in the series, they have to IMHO, DDL is a great choice to do it.

and from what i have read about him, he would enjoy the challenge of playing that role, and trying to improve upon it, if that is even possible.

 

The more I see the movie and the more I think about it, the more I'm willing to entertain brining the Joker back. He is just the perfect villian for Batman. If they can't make the Riddler or someone else work in Nolan's environment then I might be willing to have someone like Daniel Day Lewis take over for Ledger.

 

They could make the Riddler work. THey would just have to make him very un JOker like so he isn't constantly compared to the Joker.

Hell if Two Face works in his world, nearly anyone can. Maybe not clayface.

I don't understand why he doesn't think the penguin would work. He is the only villian who would actually exist in our world.

 

I thought I heard somewhere that Philip Seamore Hoffman(spelling) was to be the penguin???

 

I think the Riddler and the Penguin could work. I've only heard someone, FinSane originally, suggest that Phillip Seymore Hoffman would make a good Penguin. I haven't heard anything other than suggestions.

 

I thought I saw it on reels channel..??