The Continuity Conundrum

In a league where teams quickly go to the playoffs with new coaches all the time (see the OP) taking 3 years to make 9-7 is grounds for firing.


Playoffs or blow it up.

 

you want continuity. Heres continuity. We seem to be starting Dallas Thomas again..at RT. Anyone who wants Philbin back must be a masochist.

 

I tried rephrasing three times, you gave me three posts of what i would consider not clear nor concise answers..I mean I pride myself on welcoming new posters and making them feel at home and really trying to understand your pov, but your answers were just not clear.

 

greg, there are scenarios that would require a dismissal..losing all three...losing two out of the last three..

if we win the next three I would reconsider everything just like all of us should.

 

We aren't winning the next 3 games DJ...

 

Not trying to talk for DJ, but I think he realizes were not winning our last three games. He was trying to make a point that that would be the only way he would consider retaining Philbin.

 

I think he's one of the few people who's making a reasoned argument.

Last year we were 8-8, fans wanted Ireland and Sherman gone. They're gone. One year later they want Philbin gone. It's looney. If Ireland was so terrible then perhaps it will take more than one season to clean up the mess. People ask for major changes but don't even have the patience or attention span to see if they work.

 

What we have now is not working. And it will never work until we make serious changes to our coaching staff. We need a WINNER to lead our team. We don't have one right now.

 

Cool. Lets call 1-800-WINNER and order us one! Do they deliver or is it carry out only?

 

Just curious how you feel hes making a reasoned argument when he states these last three games mean nothing regarding Philbins future. We have a talented enough team ,injuries and all,to be a better then 7-9 team. If that happens I'll be first in line to hand Philbin his coat.

On the other hand,as I mentioned earlier, if were competitive in N.E. and then win our last two then I'd have no problem keeping him. The point I'm trying to make is these last three games certainly are relevant.

 

I think he's saying the last three games aren't decisive.

 

The word he used was "irrelevant", in regard to Philbins future. Pretty much the same as indecisive. Bottom line is if we do lose our next 3, or even 2 out of 3, then Ross will probably make a change regardless of our opinions of Philbin. Rightfully so ,I might add.

Do you personally feel these last three are irrelevant? Just curious.

 

No.

 

just saying cash

 

i hear lots of talking but I don't hear your expectations for the rest of the season as it relates to him staying or going..

so based on your lack of answering direct questions, ill just assume your good with philbin returning if we lose the next three or lose the next two out of three, cause I know where you stand if we win 2 out of the next three.

wow, so let me think about this, if we lose the next three or two out of three could I find it within myself to keep Philbin based on your defense, and that is because we let sherman and ireland go last year, we should be patient with philbin..

ok, ill try to think about it.

 

Fin?? I know you will answer a direct question...where do you stand on Philbin? and do you have any expectations in order to retain him in the last three games.?

 

baby steps.

 

were back again..what the hell does that mean?...the last three games aren't decisive?

 

There are a lot of people around here who could respond to "Fin" as a shortened form of their screen name. Who are you asking?

 

I realize that Fineas thats why I always make it a habit to call you by your full name Fineas..

i call Fin-D ''Fin'' because I don't want to type out Fin-D every time I respond to him..lol

 

We should play a game called how many of the coaches on your list would this forum have been in favor of firing after 3 years. I doubt anyone would be honest since they know most of these coaches were successful after having mediocre records their first 3 years. I'm willing to bet most of these teams had more continuity within their first 3 years than our team has. Tannehill has already learned one too many offenses, if people get their way, he will be learning another offense.

 

I was thinking as I read this that Phiplin should stay, but then I realized that there is no "punishment" for his players that play bad. They continue to get shots at playing like Thomas still starting. Ellerbe, Wheeler there has to be some accountability.

 

DJ, I want to make sure that we understand each other because you seem to be be dismissive of several of the points that I have raised. I honestly thought you were trolling me because I would answer your question and it was as though none of my words had registered. After 50+ posts on the topic of Philbin this week, I have a hard time believing that I haven't put forth my views sufficiently.

For the sake of respect, let me outline my primary view on our coaching situation for you alone. I want to see Philbin back next year. That does not mean that I love Joe Philbin and think he's the greatest coach. It doesn't mean that there aren't possibly better options available in free agency. The #1 reason behind my support of Philbin being retained for another year is the question in my mind of whether or not this past off-season's huge influx of talent is something we can rely on. Long term success in the NFL mandates that a team do what we did last season, which involves positives moves in free agency and good drafting.

While I could write an essay on what we did well this past off-season, these would be my highlights:

(1) We moved on from Ireland and found a GM candidate that was willing to be a team player.
(2) We got a dark horse candidate in the 1st round that has wildly exceeded our expectations and filled a huge hole.
(3) We have hit on a great 2nd round pick who may be our best WR.
(4) The rest of the draft gave us a good deal of developmental talent at core positions.
(5) We signed several free agents that panned out very well (Albert, Delmas, Finnegan, etc.)


These final 3 games are not irrelevant to me as a fan. I'm certainly going to watch the games and root for the Dolphins, however, I'm not going to learn anything that I don't already know about Philbin and the team's current roster. DJ, if you're at a place in your assessment of this team in which these final 3 games are going to be the deciding factor, you haven't done very good work.

I'm not trying to be condescending or mean, but we are not going to see anything that we haven't seen before. At this point the team has clear faults which it must attempt to game-plan around, so to me, whether they are close wins or close losses won't change my mind on on what the Dolphins need to do this off-season which is much more important that whether we beat the Vikes and Jets to close out the year.

I assume you're in favor of Philbin getting fired--which is a fine opinion to have--but you haven't explained why you're letting that decision rest on the next 3 games.

What do you think you'll see during these final weeks that hasn't already been put on display?

How could your opinion possibly rest on such a small sample of data during a time when the outcome of the games won't affect our ability to get into the Play-offs?

 

Last week impacted our ability to make the playoffs. Also this week is extremely important because if we finish 10-6 we are still most likely in. Not much changed except NE became a must win.

I'm not going to throw a tantrum if Philbin stays. I find him to be very average in all respects. Like I said in another post he reminds me of a socially awkward Marvin Lewis. Decent...but not great in any respect.

My reason for wanting him gone is the fact that when the chips are on the table, that is when coaching matters most. When you have adversity such as injuries...coaching matters most. I just feel Philbin has failed in that regard two years in a row.

Fwiw though you seem like a very level headed poster who cares about the team, so I do hope you enjoy the site and decide to keep posting.vwe can always use more of that.

 

I understand what you are saying, but would prefer to see Philbin go barring an unexpected turn of events. That scenario over the last 3 games would be to win out in impressive fashion and make some noise in the playoffs. But I'm not really game-result oriented. If that happens, it would likely indicate that the players respect Philbin, believe in one another and believe they have a chance to be great. It likely would also mean that Tannehill is playing very well and continuing to develop into an upper-echelon QB. If those things are happening, the benefits of continuity would outweigh my general impression that Philbin is not a very good coach and I'd be inclined to give him another year.

 

ok, so I honestly couldn't figure out where you stood...so before we continue this offseason, I just want to be very clear about this, your telling me that you have made your mind up already at this point?..That means that you would be ok with losing the last 4 games and the 5th being a poor performance against the jets.?

your sure? because your critiquing me for allowing three full seasons when here you are saying that your mind is decided to retain when theres a possibility we could lose our last 4 games...id really like to hear that reasoning.

 

agreed.

 

We would all love it if that happened, however it is equally likely that I win the lottery. We aren't capable of making a deep Play-off run.

I just hope we all understand that accomplishing those feats requires us to do things we're incapable of doing at the present moment.

Anyone who still believes that heroic outcome is possible simply isn't doing their job in evaluating the current holes and limitations of this team.

That outcome is so unrealistic, you'd be wasting your time talking about it.


It might piss some of you off to hear me say that, but I'm trying to stay honest and keep these conversations grounded in reality.

 

#1 . DJ is one of the most respected AND respectful posters we have here. He does his homework and has damn good reason to think these last 3 games are extremely important regarding Philbins futrure.

#2 .Yes, he has, numerous ways.


#3. Quite possibly the most assinine thing I`ve read on this forum in a long,long time.


(For good measure I`ll throw in a #4)

#4. I`m convinced you LOVE to type regardless of the illogical content you provide. Also, to be honest I`m starting to think you are messing with us just to see how far you can get with some far out comments. I.E. " the outcome of the games wont affect our ability to get into the play-offs". Thats a funny statement, unless you`re NOT joking then it has no humor to it at all. Then its just plain rediculous.

 

Haha...you're a trip.

I'll give you 100 to 1 odds that we miss the Play-offs.

If you are so optimistic about our chances, do you want to take that bet?

 

I think he meant that the last three games are throwaway games that don't impact playoff chances. However that is untrue. New England is now the biggest game of the season. If we pull out a win our chances are very favorable. However winning will be extrenely difficult. Philbin woyuld have to create the best game plan of his life honestly.

 

Are you seriously losing it or something? Where did I EVER say I`m optimistic about making the playoffs?? I stated that your comment about the last three games will have NO affect on us making the playoffs was an assinine statement. The last three games have EVERY affect on our slim chances. I dont think for one minute were playoff bound but to say the remaining games are meaningless is nuts. You seem to be quite convinced our 7-6 record is good enough to call it a successful season regardless if we finish 7-9 . So much so that you`d give Philbin a free pass straight into next year.

How about last year after our first 14 games? Did you see enough at 8-6 that the last 2 games were meaningless? C`mon man this is a very respectable forum, dont mess with our intellect.

 

Of course its untrue, thats my point first and foremost. We have a VERY slim chance of making the playoffs but to say the last three games wont be a deciding factor is rediculous.

 

Huh.. Just reading some of the above.

Personally I don't want Philbin as a Head Coach. I've watched him long enough now to know hes not cut out to be the head coach of the Dolphins.

There are certain qualities a Head Coach must have to be succesful in the NFL. One is he has to be flexible and creative. he must be able to take yours and beat his, and his and beat yours. He must be able to inspire young elite level athletes, many who grew up dirt poor and now are awash in millions, and ask them to run through a wall for you. You have to bring some tangible quality to the table that is a defining asset to the franchise. Meaning a master game planner. A master motivator. Something you do must be of such a high quality that it gives your team some kind of edge on Sundays.

whats one thing the Philbin does, that gives us an edge on Sunday? does he inspire players to exceed their abilities every time they step on the field? no. Is he a master game planner, consistently keeping other teams playing catch up? No infact I'll point out an instance where it's opposite. Baltimore knew Nada was out, and Miami would be testing the middle of their defense, so they used this to their advantage by sending blitzes up the A gap... So we were predictable and able to be exploited. Philbin has not figured out how to get our team to start games faster. Has he tried something different to create a spark? No, still defers to second half. Refuses to start games going full on hurry up and try and pressure teams from the onset.

Are any of our players willing to run through a wall for him? does he inspire then to greatness?

What does he offer to the Phins?

But if he gets this team with its injuries to to win in New England against a clearly better team and both home games getting us into playoffs, then he's done something remarkable and should probably get one more year. But thats the only way.

 

Yep. Honestly the only thing that makes it slim is this week. A win and you could almost say our chances are favorable.

 

Tell that to the throngs of posters who have already decided they want Philbin fired.

 

You're the only voice here that is being hostile towards anyone else, my friend.

You've chosen to be confrontational solely to defend the exceedingly small probability that represents the Dolphins Play-off chances.

Of course everyone with a brain understands that there is a mathematical chance the Dolphins make the play-offs...you're getting all heated up about that?

I'm not going to get into an argument with you over the fact that a 5% chance is slightly more than a 0% chance.

They both indicate that Miami is not making the Play-offs.

If you think there is some argument going on here and that you've won, feel free to pat yourself on the back.



I'll remind you that the discussion I'm trying to move forward with involves how those last 3 games do or don't tell us about Philbin. My contention--for about the 5th time in this thread--is that we should be well aware at this point of what this team and its coach are.


Seriously...instead of looking for the argument. Just chill and discuss the issues.

 

As an engineer, I'm sure you know how much hyperbole you threw in there. The odds are nothing like winning the lottery. Not even close. Vegas is pretty good at this stuff and they should be -- they have a lot riding on it. They are saying the dolphins have about a 1 in 4, or 25% chance, of beating the Pats. If we do, we'll certainly be favored over the Vikes and Jets at home. Let's call those both 65% win probabilities. If so, the probability of winning out is approximately 10%, which isn't good, but it hardly lottery-like.

There have been so many teams in recent history that have backed, or snuck, into the playoffs and then made SB runs that have looked no better than this team at this point in those seasons. The Giants did it. The Packers did it. The Ravens did it. Etc. If we play well we are capable. Can we beat Denver in Denver? Yes. We came pretty close just a few weeks ago. I wouldn't bet on it, but then again I'm not much of a gambler. But we are capable. If we beat NE this week we'll have proven that we can beat them on the road. After Denver and NE, all the other AFC teams are very beatable if you get them at the right time.

But by all means, you are free to be as pessimistic as you'd like. Whatever works for you.

 

I'll take those odds. How much?

 

I think the problem here is you`re not used to a forum where respectability is #1.



What do you mean the last three games wont tell US anything about Philbin? Its only YOUR opinion.


Also, its quite obvious the only opinion that matters to you is your own. If you were more observant you would`ve noticed that I said numerous times that we , in ALL PROBABILITY, will NOT make the playoffs. However, 10-6 and actually 9-7 is better then 7-9, playoffs or not. We were 7-5 at one point, if we finish 7-9 it means nothing according to you. In my book that's colossal meltdown #2 under Philbins watch. Try to keep up with the rest of us.


And, that subtle attack on DJ, for not agreeing with your "logic" was uncalled for.