the combine

that's why I don't pay too much attention to mock drafts at this time. There's still so much that can happen between now and April. Not to mention whatever happens in FA will affect the draft as well.

"Rocky Raccoon wrote:

that's why I don't pay too much attention to mock drafts at this time. There's still so much that can happen between now and April. Not to mention whatever happens in FA will affect the draft as well.

The first five or so picks are usually fairly accurate by this point of the year. The others can change drastically.

Damn NFL Network. Looks like ima have to find a friend to stay with those few days

"REV KEV wrote:

Keep in in mind that the players currently ranked 1-5, 5-10, and 10-15 etc... will rise and fall after the combine..., Juniors are still declaring..., people need to show a little more flexibility with their thiniking....

I think OTs will climb and so will QBs..., the two most important positions to fill on any team...

Hey Rev, IF possible I would like to trade down and get a great OT. However, we all know the problems with trading down (you need someone to want to trade up). I am all for building this oline. However, I am NOT for spending a 2nd round pick on a QB. NO thanks. I think Beck will be ok... and we have WAY too many other holes.

"Oboy wrote:

Hey Rev, IF possible I would like to trade down and get a great OT. However, we all know the problems with trading down (you need someone to want to trade up). I am all for building this oline. However, I am NOT for spending a 2nd round pick on a QB. NO thanks. I think Beck will be ok... and we have WAY too many other holes.

OBOY..., if Brohm say fell to 32 you don't think that's a good choice..., while they rank high Qbs will fall as Jrs enter the draft

"REV KEV wrote:

Keep in in mind that the players currently ranked 1-5, 5-10, and 10-15 etc... will rise and fall after the combine..., Juniors are still declaring..., people need to show a little more flexibility with their thiniking....

I think OTs will climb and so will QBs..., the two most important positions to fill on any team...

"REV KEV wrote:

OBOY..., if Brohm say fell to 32 you don't think that's a good choice..., while they rank high Qbs will fall as Jrs enter the draft

:huh1:

I don't see us taking a QB on the first day. Maybe 3rd or 4th round.

"Motion wrote:

:huh1:

I don't see us taking a QB on the first day. Maybe 3rd or 4th round.

3rd means the first pick of the second day..., right... I'm down with that...

Qbs will climb at the combine that doesn't necessarily mean anything..., on draft day they always fall... Beck isn't mobile..., isn't very vocal... and if BP doesn't see saviour written all over him... I'll say it again if Beck ain't the saviour... (watch Beck's body language listen to Beck says in the media).... he is mired in QB controversey day 1. BP won't do anything to diminish Beck's worth or confidence by drafting a QB..., maybe light a fire within... He is supposed to be a professional everyone here wants to coddle the guy...

You draft all defense you are looking for a short term solution..., this team needs to think longer range... Defensive help will arrive during FA you'll see... There isn't a FA QB that I would be willing to pay the big $ to..., even FA QBs get there fair share of $..., still QBs go down like every other week in this league...,

Somebody better have a better paln than drafting defense

"REV KEV wrote:

OBOY..., if Brohm say fell to 32 you don't think that's a good choice..., while they rank high Qbs will fall as Jrs enter the draft

I'm all for giving Beck an opportunity to start next year, but if Brohm is there at #32, chances are very good that he's the BPA. It would be a mistake to pass up on a potential franchise QB just because there's a chance Beck may eventually develop into starting calibur QB. 2 potential QB's are better than 1, and who knows, it may end up like the Brees/Rivers situation in SD. Is Brees the QB he is today if the Chargers selected a different player in Rivers' place?

"REV KEV wrote:

3rd means the first pick of the second day..., right... I'm down with that...

Qbs will climb at the combine that doesn't necessarily mean anything..., on draft day they always fall... Beck isn't mobile..., isn't very vocal... and if BP doesn't see saviour written all over him... I'll say it again if Beck ain't the saviour... (watch Beck's body language listen to Beck says in the media).... he is mired in QB controversey day 1. BP won't do anything to diminish Beck's worth or confidence by drafting a QB..., maybe light a fire within... He is supposed to be a professional everyone here wants to coddle the guy...

You draft all defense you are looking for a short term solution..., this team needs to think longer range... Defensive help will arrive during FA you'll see... There isn't a FA QB that I would be willing to pay the big $ to..., even FA QBs get there fair share of $..., still QBs go down like every other week in this league...,

Somebody better have a better paln than drafting defense

You have that completely backwards IMO.

How is drafting young players on defense a short term solution and bringing in older vets through FA not??? I don't buy that for a second.

We don't need to draft ALL defense but it should definitely be a priority.

"Motion wrote:

You have that completely backwards IMO.

How is drafting young players on defense a short term solution and bringing in older vets through FA not??? I don't buy that for a second.

We don't need to draft ALL defense but it should definitely be a priority.

It ain't backwards... There area lot of proven athletes out there who don't command the $ of tested Oline and QB...

"REV KEV wrote:

It ain't backwards... There area lot of proven athletes out there who don't command the $ of tested Oline and QB...

Definitely backwards IMO.

I'm not saying draft all defense and rely on rookies, but to say drafting defensive players is a short term solution makes absolutely no sense. We need to find a happy medium. Bring in a few solid vets to help groom younger players for the long term.

"Motion wrote:

Definitely backwards IMO.

I'm not saying draft all defense and rely on rookies, but to say drafting defensive players is a short term solution makes absolutely no sense. We need to find a happy medium. Bring in a few solid vets to help groom younger players for the long term.

These mock drafts that poop up I mean pop up are rather one-sided wouldn't you say...?

"REV KEV wrote:

These mock drafts that poop up I mean pop up are rather one-sided wouldn't you say...?

Did you see our defense this year?

Its extremely premature at this point to even suggest what we end up doing. We don't even have a Head Coach yet, we assume we'll run a 3-4 defense, we have no idea what offensive system we'll run, and we don't know what current players we'll keep. So obviously our needs could change but based on our issues from this past year I think these mocks have reason to be one sided.

Gholston is going to be a top 5 pick after the combine.

"Motion wrote:

Did you see our defense this year?

Its extremely premature at this point to even suggest what we end up doing. We don't even have a Head Coach yet, we assume we'll run a 3-4 defense, we have no idea what offensive system we'll run, and we don't know what current players we'll keep. So obviously our needs could change but based on our issues from this past year I think these mocks have reason to be one sided.

Wanny-ball was win with Defense... Don't turn the ball over... Everybody got pretty tired of that... "defense bails out Jay Fieldler one more freakin time" that does wear out a team (ask Baltimore)

What are you suggesting...? defenses win games...?

Field position wins games...?

Will you concede that the offense should forfeit their pay to the Defense for hanging them out to dry most of the season... Talant wise some D guys were hurt..., D scheme was vanilla, and the D guys were exhausted...

How many freaking unsurmountable leads did the Offense provide the defense..., the Defense was tweaking every play..., every play was like if we blow it the offense will never get us back in this one...

The defense is not as collectively bad as you think..., especially had we picked Okoye or Willis if Brady was that bad....

My question Motion... "How can you justify not spending early picks on the Oline...?"

"REV KEV wrote:

Wanny-ball was win with Defense... Don't turn the ball over... Everybody got pretty tired of that... "defense bails out Jay Fieldler one more freakin time" that does wear out a team (ask Baltimore)

What are you suggesting...? defenses win games...?

Field position wins games...?

Will you concede that the offense should forfeit their pay to the Defense for hanging them out to dry most of the season... Talant wise some D guys were hurt..., D scheme was vanilla, and the D guys were exhausted...

How many freaking unsurmountable leads did the Offense provide the defense..., the Defense was tweaking every play..., every play was like if we blow it the offense will never get us back in this one...

The defense is not as collectively bad as you think..., especially had we picked Okoye or Willis if Brady was that bad....

My question Motion... "How can you justify not spending early picks on the Oline...?"

I can see that we're gonna have to agree to disagree here.

I can easily justify not spending early picks on the Oline because that was one of the brighter spots of the team this season, there weren't many. Carey, Satele, and hopefully Hadnot are all keepers. Upgrades can be made of course, but our front seven on defense and a solid DB or two should be a priority.

I am absolutely suggesting that the defense was horrible and yes it needs alot of work. The injury excuse can only go so far, we need better starters and depth.

I am not saying the offense should be ignored. I'm all for taking a TE or WR in the 2nd round and a Olineman in the 3rd or 4th. We used the first 3 picks on offense last year and have little to show for it.

"Motion wrote:

I can see that we're gonna have to agree to disagree here.

I can easily justify not spending early picks on the Oline because that was one of the brighter spots of the team this season, there weren't many. Carey, Satele, and hopefully Hadnot are all keepers. Upgrades can be made of course, but our front seven on defense and a solid DB or two should be a priority.

I am absolutely suggesting that the defense was horrible and yes it needs alot of work. The injury excuse can only go so far, we need better starters and depth.

I am not saying the offense should be ignored. I'm all for taking a TE or WR in the 2nd round and a Olineman in the 3rd or 4th. We used the first 3 picks on offense last year and have little to show for it.

We aren't that far off then...

"REV KEV wrote:

3rd means the first pick of the second day..., right... I'm down with that...

Qbs will climb at the combine that doesn't necessarily mean anything..., on draft day they always fall... Beck isn't mobile..., isn't very vocal... and if BP doesn't see saviour written all over him... I'll say it again if Beck ain't the saviour... (watch Beck's body language listen to Beck says in the media).... he is mired in QB controversey day 1. BP won't do anything to diminish Beck's worth or confidence by drafting a QB..., maybe light a fire within... He is supposed to be a professional everyone here wants to coddle the guy...

You draft all defense you are looking for a short term solution..., this team needs to think longer range... Defensive help will arrive during FA you'll see... There isn't a FA QB that I would be willing to pay the big $ to..., even FA QBs get there fair share of $..., still QBs go down like every other week in this league...,

Somebody better have a better paln than drafting defense

Not true. His combine numbers that I could find:

1) 20 shuttle - He came in 4th behind Anthony Gonzales, Chris Davis, and David Clowney. For comparison, Yamon Figurs came in 9th.

2) 3 cone - He came in 6th, just behind Dewayne Bowe, 6.82 to Bowe's 6.81. Just in front of Yamon Figurs who had a 6.85.

3) 40 yd - Ran 4.70. For comparison, Lemon ran a 4.9.

"Sam wrote:

Not true. His combine numbers that I could find:

1) 20 shuttle - He came in 4th behind Anthony Gonzales, Chris Davis, and David Clowney. For comparison, Yamon Figurs came in 9th.

2) 3 cone - He came in 6th, just behind Dewayne Bowe, 6.82 to Bowe's 6.81. Just in front of Yamon Figurs who had a 6.85.

3) 40 yd - Ran 4.70. For comparison, Lemon ran a 4.9.

the guy is a statue..., Andre Ware could run to you know

"REV KEV wrote:

the guy is a statue..., Andre Ware could run to you know

You're making the mistake of seeing Beck staying in the pocket, to read the defense, with not having mobility. He could easily have rolled out like Lemon, but that really decreases the field you throw to, thus making it easier for the defense. Example of a statue is Vinnie Testaverde. Don't really understand your reference to Andre Ware.

On a side note: It's my belief that Cam didn't roll Beck out like he did Lemon, to make him read the defense...contrary to what Cam was saying, I think he was trying to develop John for the long term.

"Motion wrote:

:huh1:

I don't see us taking a QB on the first day. Maybe 3rd or 4th round.

I do not see Brohm falling to 32... But if he does, then I do think they will pull the trigger. I just think that he will be picked in the TOP 15.:confused2:

"Sam wrote:

You're making the mistake of seeing Beck staying in the pocket, to read the defense, with not having mobility. He could easily have rolled out like Lemon, but that really decreases the field you throw to, thus making it easier for the defense. Example of a statue is Vinnie Testaverde. Don't really understand your reference to Andre Ware.

On a side note: It's my belief that Cam didn't roll Beck out like he did Lemon, to make him read the defense...contrary to what Cam was saying, I think he was trying to develop John for the long term.

It was a poor argument on my part..., what I was trying to say... Game speed and running pylons are different beasts..., Andre Ware was very mobile QB who never panned out...

I am so not sold on Beck..., not that Brady Q was better..., but BP and Ireland will move in the direction(s) they need to go...

"BuckeyeKing wrote:

Gholston is going to be a top 5 pick after the combine.

Unless they have changed the Combine selection criteria, Gholston won't be there. The Combine was set up originally to get a selection of College Senior's to test at one time for all teams. Gholston being a Junior would preclude him from attending the Combine.

"sgtphin wrote:

Unless they have changed the Combine selection criteria, Gholston won't be there. The Combine was set up originally to get a selection of College Senior's to test at one time for all teams. Gholston being a Junior would preclude him from attending the Combine.

So then why was Adrian Peterson there last year - he was not a senior at all.