The best article to date on this mess. Impartial...and well worth consideration.

The locker room is fine. The actions of 2 players are the ones open for opinion, judgement and punishment beit legal routes, NFL investigations and morals. Im just feeling bad for the team. They are the victims right now that i care about. Watched a Cam Wake interview 20mins ago on Phinsiders. I knew what was coming straight off the bat. Not the sack to win the game, not the 3 sacks, not the forced fumble, not the recovery. It was the question about this crap we've all witnessed in the last week. Its a shame and sad.

Canfora's article pretty much captures my thoughts on the situation. Nice find.

I feel bad for the rest of the team, and I feel bad for us fans.

We devote alot of our time and effort into this team...and we should be focusing on Tampa and trying to make a run at the playoffs like everyone else. Instead....we have this **** to look forward to for the forseasble future.

Good article.

In an previous career I investigated workplace harassment claims. From my experience I would add the following:
1) In genuine cases the perpetrator tends to only do the vicious stuff away from people who could disapprove, either with others who act the same way or behind closed doors. So it is common for other co-workers to be unaware of the true extent of the harassment. Quite often there is light hearted stuff done openly so when there is a reaction other co-workers feel that the victim is over-reacting but they are unaware of the true extent of the harassment.
2) Human instinct is to protect the herd from outsiders. The initial reaction of the work group is to rally behind the accused perpetrator. Maybe also it is easier to believe that the alleged victim is being a big sook rather than to accept that you stood by and did nothing when you should have stepped in.
3) Genuine victims only collect and retain evidence after it has been ongoing for a while, the first series of episodes is almost always dismissed. People with an enhanced sense of entitlement trying to claim to be a victim don't have evidence to back up their claims.
4) In workplaces where the initial complaints are not responded to seriously the trend is for the victim to feel isolated and try to cope on their own until there is a catastrophic failure. Management only become aware of the true facts after the catastrophic failire, and their most common reaction is to cover their pimply white behinds.

Things I would expect to see if Martin was being histrionic
1) Many loudly repeated complaints almost all of which have no evidence of occurring.
2) An enhanced sense of entitlement. An expectation for example that the OL coach change the entire methods because he knows better than everybody else how the Oline of an NFL tream works.
3) A lack of effort to try to fit into the group.
4) Evidence that they present as 'proof' of harassment does not objectively show bad faith or bad behaviour

So far on what has come out fits the pattern of genuine cases better than cases of precious petals expecting the world to conform to them.

I don't remember reading or hearing of Martin asking Incognito to stop what he was doing? Does anyone remember reading or hearing of it?

LaCanfora isn't great, but that is a really well written and thought out breakdown.

"Onehondo wrote:

I don't remember reading or hearing of Martin asking Incognito to stop what he was doing? Does anyone remember reading or hearing of it?

he and his lawyer have not claimed that. and they would have if it happened cause it would have strengthened their claim

"Onehondo wrote:

I don't remember reading or hearing of Martin asking Incognito to stop what he was doing? Does anyone remember reading or hearing of it?

No, I dont . And, apparently neither do his team mates. This is why I have a hard time siding with Martin wholeheartedly because it appears he never once said " enough is enough". Incognito, as obnoxious as he may be, probably would never purposely hurt Martin to a point where it would cause a nervous breakdown. Also, I feel the fact that Martin sent Incognito a text saying its not the teams fault speaks volumes on this whole subject.This whole situation blew up when Martin decided to let his Mother hear the voice mail and if it was so bothersome to him why didnt he come forward with it months ago.?

"CitizenSnips wrote:

he and his lawyer have not claimed that. and they would have if it happened cause it would have strengthened their claim

I think it is safe to assume Martin's lawyers are very good, what with both of his parents being Harvard Law grads. They will release their evidence when it is right for their case to do so, not when it suits the media searching for a story.

Excellent article. Actually I think it's the best written piece on this whole fiasco that I've read.

"RGF wrote:

Also, I feel the fact that Martin sent Incognito a text saying its not the teams fault speaks volumes on this whole subject.

That text tells me that when Martin left he intended to come back fairly quickly and that he did not want to make waves because he knew that if he started pointing fingers that his situation would become worse. He had already complained to Philbin and Incognito had still continued with stuff that Martin felt was inappropriate.

As for Incognito not wanting to cause a nervous breakdown, the type of person who does this type of thing lacks sufficient empathy to understand what they are doing is wrong - otherwise they wouldn't be doing it in the first place. So if Incognito is someone who will harass Martin, he will keep on doing so until Martin breaks or he his forcible prevented from doing so.

"Pauly wrote:

That text tells me that when Martin left he intended to come back fairly quickly and that he did not want to make waves because he knew that if he started pointing fingers that his situation would become worse. He had already complained to Philbin and Incognito had still continued with stuff that Martin felt was inappropriate.

As for Incognito not wanting to cause a nervous breakdown, the type of person who does this type of thing lacks sufficient empathy to understand what they are doing is wrong - otherwise they wouldn't be doing it in the first place. So if Incognito is someone who will harass Martin, he will keep on doing so until Martin breaks or he his forcible prevented from doing so.

That part didn't happen

This is one game where everyone loses. Including the NFL.

ANd my take is that it's Martin's Mother's character and influence that is driving this... Everything hit the fan when Mom found out.

Every time I say that, I feel like we're discussing a child.

"Pauly wrote:

That text tells me that when Martin left he intended to come back fairly quickly and that he did not want to make waves because he knew that if he started pointing fingers that his situation would become worse. He had already complained to Philbin and Incognito had still continued with stuff that Martin felt was inappropriate.

As for Incognito not wanting to cause a nervous breakdown, the type of person who does this type of thing lacks sufficient empathy to understand what they are doing is wrong - otherwise they wouldn't be doing it in the first place. So if Incognito is someone who will harass Martin, he will keep on doing so until Martin breaks or he his forcible prevented from doing so.

How did you reach that conclusion? And,what you say Martin did NOT want to do is exactly what he DID do. I`m confused as to your reasoning, not debating it, just confused.

I reached that conclusion because it is what I saw time and time again when people suffering actual workplace harassment decompensated. It is very unusual in genuine cases for the victim not to make a statement like this.

The mental process is to think that they just need a break for a few days and that if they complain things will be much worse when they get back. So they want to keep things patched up and nice and not to burn any bridges behind them.
It's only when they need more than just a day or two away from the situation to resolve the problem that the full story starts coming out.

"Bpk wrote:

This is one game where everyone loses. Including the NFL.

ANd my take is that it's Martin's Mother's character and influence that is driving this... Everything hit the fan when Mom found out.

Every time I say that, I feel like we're discussing a child.

That's just one of many of the things that leaves you asking WTF? Hiding behind his mother and having her fight his battle, real or imagined, while he reportedly is receiving emotional therapy for someone make crude jokes and teasing him. It all feels so Elementary or Jr High...

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

That part didn't happen

The evidence as I understand it is that Martin had taken his problems to Philbin in training camp. There is also evidence that the coaching staff gave Incognito the green light to harass Martin i.e. asking Incognito to toughen up Martin, which based on the tweets we have seen looks as though it was taken as licence to harass Martin.

The evidence that it continued after the complaint was made to Philbin is that Martin left camp over the table incident. People are resilient and they don't snap and fail unless they are under placed under continued stress. If Martin was under stress over coaching who would have broken over a coaching incident, if he had come apart over relationship issues we would be talking about Martin the wife beater. The fact that it was an incident designed to humiliate Martin orchestrated by Incognito strongly implies that these sorts of incidents have been ongoing throughout the season.

"cuchulainn wrote:

That's just one of many of the things that leaves you asking WTF? Hiding behind his mother and having her fight his battle, real or imagined, while he reportedly is receiving emotional therapy for someone make crude jokes and teasing him. It all feels so Elementary or Jr High...

The guy acting like junior high is Incognito

"Pauly wrote:

The evidence as I understand it is that Martin had taken his problems to Philbin in training camp. There is also evidence that the coaching staff gave Incognito the green light to harass Martin i.e. asking Incognito to toughen up Martin, which based on the tweets we have seen looks as though it was taken as licence to harass Martin.

The evidence that it continued after the complaint was made to Philbin is that Martin left camp over the table incident. People are resilient and they don't snap and fail unless they are under placed under continued stress. If Martin was under stress over coaching who would have broken over a coaching incident, if he had come apart over relationship issues we would be talking about Martin the wife beater. The fact that it was an incident designed to humiliate Martin orchestrated by Incognito strongly implies that these sorts of incidents have been ongoing throughout the season.

Martin went to Philbin with his personal problems, which according to reports, had to do with his individual desire to continue playing the game. Philbin's statements were that he was never alerted to Martin's issues with being bullied around the locker room, the stance his legal team is taking now.

"Pauly wrote:

The evidence as I understand it is that Martin had taken his problems to Philbin in training camp. There is also evidence that the coaching staff gave Incognito the green light to harass Martin i.e. asking Incognito to toughen up Martin, which based on the tweets we have seen looks as though it was taken as licence to harass Martin.

The evidence that it continued after the complaint was made to Philbin is that Martin left camp over the table incident. People are resilient and they don't snap and fail unless they are under placed under continued stress. If Martin was under stress over coaching who would have broken over a coaching incident, if he had come apart over relationship issues we would be talking about Martin the wife beater. The fact that it was an incident designed to humiliate Martin orchestrated by Incognito strongly implies that these sorts of incidents have been ongoing throughout the season.

Pauly, with all due respect, you're missing some of the finer details and context that led up to where we are now.

"Pauly wrote:

The evidence as I understand it is that Martin had taken his problems to Philbin in training camp. There is also evidence that the coaching staff gave Incognito the green light to harass Martin i.e. asking Incognito to toughen up Martin, which based on the tweets we have seen looks as though it was taken as licence to harass Martin.

The evidence that it continued after the complaint was made to Philbin is that Martin left camp over the table incident. People are resilient and they don't snap and fail unless they are under placed under continued stress. If Martin was under stress over coaching who would have broken over a coaching incident, if he had come apart over relationship issues we would be talking about Martin the wife beater. The fact that it was an incident designed to humiliate Martin orchestrated by Incognito strongly implies that these sorts of incidents have been ongoing throughout the season.

Interesting that he didn't "snap" until after he lost his starting LT position and was told to move back to RT or be benched. A move he didn't want to make as he complained about having to play RT last season.

You're jumping to conclusions on anything being "designed to humiliate" Martin. There is no evidence of that. By all accounts he was treated as all others were. Same crude language, jokes, and treatment. The difference is in the way Martin handled things.

"schmolioot wrote:

The guy acting like junior high is Incognito

They both are to varying degrees. Cogs is an immature, testosterone driven a****** and a total d***. He is like the "Steven Stiffler" character. But he is like this to everyone. He lacks a strong moral compass, but he also fights his own battles and can be contrite.

Sadly, he is almost a classic case of Aristole's tragic character - a man who is neither good and just, but whose misfortune is brought about by committing an injury or a great wrong leading to his misfortune...

"cuchulainn wrote:

You're jumping to conclusions on anything being "designed to humiliate" Martin. There is no evidence of that. By all accounts he was treated as all others were. Same crude language, jokes, and treatment. The difference is in the way Martin handled things.

Not everyone can handle that kind of thing. The problem is that Incognito seems to have no ability to recognize that not everyone is some meatheaded jock. Just because he wasn't treated differently doesn't make the behavior acceptable.

"texanphinatic wrote:

Not everyone can handle that kind of thing. The problem is that Incognito seems to have no ability to recognize that not everyone is some meatheaded jock. Just because he wasn't treated differently doesn't make the behavior acceptable.

I agree with all of that and I am not defending Cogs words or actions. I was saying there is no evidence that any one was sitting around designing actions and statements to go out of their way to specifically humiliate Martin.