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The Anti-Jeff Ireland Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MonstBlitz, Sep 10, 2012.

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  1. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    It's time for the official fire Jeff Ireland Thread. He's done more to hurt this organization than anyone else who has earned a "Fire _______ Thread." I welcome anyone who has similar thoughts to share them, and I also welcome his supporters to argue on his behalf.

    I'm sure some will view this thread as a knee jerk reaction to yesterday's game and that's ok. Most of you know my feelings on Jeff Ireland and know that I've had them going back 3 seasons now.

    I'm going to keep this "rant" free and just lay out the evidence as I see it as why Jeff Ireland's tenure as GM of the Miami Dolphins needs to be over at the end of this season, if not sooner.

    Brandon Marshall and the WR position.

    For Brandon Marshall's tenure as a Dolphin the only thing holding him back was poor QB play. Even with the poor QB play, he registered 2 very solid seasons for the Miami Dolphins. We paid 2 #2 picks to get him and jettisoned him for 2 3rd round picks. Many of us were initially angry with the trade. Too little value, too big a player. Then when the news came out of the off the field incident, many praised Ireland for getting some value for a troubled player. When the off the field incident was revealed to be overblown resulting in no suspension, we then thought Ireland must have a plan to replace Marshall. A Legadu Nanee and Chad Johnson fiasco later we realize there is no plan. Brandon Marshall is off to a real nice start in Chicago. That kind of ability and production would have benefited Tannehill greatly. Look at the playoff season Andy Dalton had last year. Does anyone think that happens without A.J. Green? Yesterday's game reinforces the notion that the WR position is as big an embarrassment as we all thought it would be.

    And I'll just tack on lack of a play making tight end here with the WRs.

    The secondary:

    Another area that got weaker from last season to this season. And yet another position where we lost value on a player who made an impact playing his position. The first round pick turned into the now infamous "coupla picks" (2 and conditional 6). I have no idea how VD did for the Colts yesterday, so I won't speak to that. I do know how Richard Marshall did. He looked like a complete liability. Granted he was covering an all pro WR so I won't throw the guy completely under the bus yet. We struggled against Houston's passing attack with VD as well, even though that's when the defense was still sucking wind from the work stoppage shortened training camp. The safety position is still a complete disaster. The defense looked clueless at times and was clearly missing the presence and communication skills of Yeremiah Bell. Another glaring weakness crucial to success in today's NFL that has not been adequately addressed by the GM.

    The Quarterback position:

    No, I'm not going to claim Ryan Tannehill is a failed QB after 1 game. I thought he looked pretty good at times during yesterday's game. That side arm flick to Bess with pressure in his face impressed the hell out of me. I just want to mention a potential issue we may face at the position if Ireland is retained. Let's say Ryan Tannehill has the kind of season we saw from Chad Henne in 2009. Flashes of talent, some wins, and good reasons to be hopeful for the future but also some reasons for doubt: A TD ratio on the wrong side of 1, limited production, etc. Sure, he COULD be a franchise QB. Or he might not be. Let's also say we end up with a high enough draft pick to take one of the top 2 QBs in next year's draft. Would Ireland take the best 1 or 2 QBs in next year's draft if Tannehill was in a position to only maybe be a franchise QB? Probably not since Ireland is invested in Tannehill. Drafting another QB high would be admitting he's not sure about Tannehill, something his arrogance will not allow him to do, IMHO. A brand new GM won't care about how past picks were spent and is most likely to take the best QB available is there is any doubt whatsoever about Tannehill.

    But again, this is just a hypothetical. Tannehill has plenty of time to prove himself definitively one way or another.

    Next year's draft picks and the future:

    Next year the Miami Dolphins will have a stockpile of draft picks. Do the Dolphins really want to trust them to a man who has done little to prove he is a capable GM up until this point? Or should Ross use those picks to lure in Ireland's potential replacement? It's been mentioned how appealing that many picks in a draft would be to a incoming GM.

    Perception:

    There is a growing perception that coaches and players don't want to work for or with Jeff Ireland. Perception becomes reality. Jeff has not been able to recruit and/or retain top free agent talent and has arguably played a role in failing to land 2 top coaching candidates. Jeff Fisher is probably a good miss. Jim Harbaugh is looking more and more like one of the absolute best coaches in the league. His free agency record speaks for itself. Legadu Nanee and Richard Marshall. I can point to past mistakes but then we get into the "Those are Bill Parcells fault!" stuff.

    MomWhoreGate didn't do much for Ireland's perception around the league either and continues to be a running joke among fans of every team.

    The sad reality:

    The ideal time to fire Jeff Ireland would have been exactly when Tony Sparano was fired. Because he was retained, he may very well end up ruining Joe Philbin's career as a head coach. He's handed Philbin a roster full of holes at crucial positions. Philbin may have a hard time piecing together 3 wins with this roster. And if that's the case, a new GM might decide it's time for a new coach. The Dolphins will be starting over again. If 3 wins or less is the case, would Philbin deserve to go? It might be impossible to tell. Will it be poor coaching? Or strictly a lack of talent? Or both? For the record, I don't think Philbin coached a bad game yesterday. But since the house wasn't cleaned before Philbin arrived, his future may be linked to Ireland's and Miami may lose a coach who didn't deserve to go.

    Overall:

    I know many of you will continue to support and defend Jeff Ireland, and that's ok. I could be wrong. But one thing we can all agree on is that we want the Miami Dolphins to stop being an embarrassment on and off the football field. I don't think that happens so long as Jeff Ireland is the GM. I think this roster has entirely too many holes at crucial positions. Positions that we have been waiting for to be filled for too long. Jeff Ireland has arrogantly ignored these positions thinking he can get by with later round talent. He has become the unfortunate face of this franchise and the Dolphins will be judged by his actions until he's gone. Some say he deserves a chance without Bill Parcells. To that I say, IMO, he's an even bigger disaster without Parcells than he was with him. Stephen Ross retained the puppet GM of a failed regime. Arguably the worst component of that failed regime.

    As far as who should replace him, I'm a big fan of Bill Polian even though I know many here think the demise of the Colts last season was evidence he's a worse GM than Ireland. That's debatable. I welcome anyone to discuss any other potential Ireland replacements for if and when he is fired.

    In conclusion, I firmly believe Ireland needs to be replaced. I just hope Stephen Ross has the confidence to do so at the end of this season. As a businessman, he has to know that the guy managing the operations of his most public asset is not doing a very good job.
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    This should be in the rant forum.
     
  3. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I am with ya MB.....down with that little ginger animal....
     
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  4. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm looking forward to a well-reasoned thread in which someone will come up with an even halfway appropriate baseline for measuring GM success that provides a good argument for why Ireland has done a bad job.
























    Ahaha no not really
     
  5. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Thanks for proving you only read the title.
     
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  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No offense, but you really did not need to create this thread. This has been the most talked about subject for months.
     
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  7. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I think the talent levels of other NFL rosters is a pretty good baseline. I think at this point, maybe only the Browns have worse talent on their roster? Just my opinion.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Thanks for proving, you don't know what the word "proving" means. I read it. I needs to be in the rants forum, cause get this....you're ranting.
     
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  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, it very much would be if someone were to theoretically sit down and try to give that argument with any degree of nuance.

    Had I been holding my breath on that one I'd have died a couple seasons ago despite all the hot air available to me.
     
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  10. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Thanks for proving you clearly have no idea what the word "rant" means. Not everything you disagree with is a rant. Here, let me help -

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rant


     
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You mean:
    1: to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
    2: to scold vehemently

    isn't an example of your post?

    There was thread that was about the positives of ireland that had actual articles in them explaining his level of power and it was moved there. Surely, a rehash of the same tired **** you've posted over and over and over and over only titled Official Fire Jeff Ireland qualifies more so.
     
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  12. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because you don't agree? Give me a break. It's a well thought out, well written post making a case for replacing our GM, its far from a hot headed rant...

    Unbelievable.
     
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  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    -Marshall graded out well yesterday
    -JMart is going to struggle at RT, he is a rookie after all
    -BMarshall would have made the cap issues worse if he had stayed

    As for "next year", since we are still in "this year" that is premature to speculate on.

    As for Ireland's inherent value, it was wearing #34 and scored our first punt return Td in 5 seasons yesterday.
     
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  14. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Great post MB. Especially these two bullet points:

    - "he's an even bigger disaster without Parcells than he was with him."
    - "the worst component of that failed regime."
     
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  15. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I can see this thread will most likely end up being shut down by days end....:lol:
     
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  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    It shouldn't because you agree with it? Give me a break. It wasn't well thought out, it was more or less copy and pasted form every post he's made on the subject for the past year.
     
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  17. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    No, it's not. Anything else?
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    We'll see.
     
  19. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here's your response in another thread where I asked you who you thought the best and worst teams in the elague were and how the Fins stacked up in your mind

    Now you plainly admit that our talent level is closer to the abd than the good but we are somehow not below average. Ok.

    How would you like to do this? Roster by roster, us versus Cleveland, Jax and STL?

    And if we did that, would it even matter to you considering you've previously argued that Ireland should be judged not just by the players he took but by the players taken by other teams as well? For instance you've continuously argued that Ireland shouldn't be criticized for not drafting a QB prior to this year because "none" were available.

    So what analysis could possibly be shown to you that would make you rethink your position? If going roster by roster won't do it, then we can't have a conversation
     
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  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    It's an opinionated rant, one that's not even factual, and as such it belongs in the rant forum.
     
  21. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I really hope not. I know it always ends up being a contentious issue. Does Jeff Ireland deserve an official "FIRE" thread. I think so. Dan Henning had one. I think Ireland has done more disservice to the Miami Dolphins than Henning, IMHO.
     
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  22. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Nope, still not a rant. And last I checked, opinions are allowed in this forum.
     
  23. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    That...is...hilarious. These guys swear they're not irish apologists yet their posts betray them. I've been convinced for quite some time that they're undercover agents of some sort, work for the organization or are related to jeff.
     
  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    "well written"? How so? It's intentionally misleading. See the following OP quote:

    Then reference the following article about Ireland:

    He also mentions the trading of Brandon Marshall but then contradicts himself by saying "But one thing we can all agree on is that we want the Miami Dolphins to stop being an embarrassment off the football field. I don't think that happens so long as Jeff Ireland is the GM."..... even though Ireland & Philbin are the ones shipping off the off-the-field embarrassments. He needs to make up his mind b/c you can't be in favor of both keeping Marshall etc AND trying to stop being an embarrassment off the field. ​
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Starting a "The ***OFFICIAL*** Fire Jeff Ireland Thread" after the first game and listing your opinionated reasons why you want him fired is a rant.... especially when it's nothing more than a continuation of the same opinionated ranting stuff you've been spouting over and over and over again in every other thread.
     
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  27. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I won't speak to why Moderators moved any other threads to the rant forum. I wouldn't know. Last I checked sharing opinions on this forum is allowed. I'm not ranting, put a lot of thought in the post, and consolidated all my thoughts, opinions, and views on Ireland's work into one central thread. What's wrong with that? I know you don't agree. But how about tell me why you don't agree with what I posted instead of quibbling over whether or not this is a rant?
     
  28. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    All I am going to say is if they are going to fire him, do it sooner rather than later....the trade deadline is approaching and he isnt going to make any deals if he is on the hot seat....

    If you get a new GM in there who obviously isn't on the hot seat, he would be more apt to try and set the team up for the future...

    keeping Jeff around until the end of the year does nothing if you are most likely going to fire him regardless....
     
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  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's the typical lame, weak, classless, childish, default statement by posters unable to make a legitimate, supported argument of their own and need a convenient way to discredit others.
     
  30. Dtronic

    Dtronic Season Tickets Sec. 150

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    Good post!

    Only solace is that this will be the year Ireland gets the axe and we can start improving this team.


    Our secondary and wr's have to be close to the bottom of the 32 in the NFL.
     
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  31. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Or the opposite could be true. He could make a bad move that he thinks might generate a few more wins to save his job if he thinks this season is headed down the tubes.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm not quibbling. This thread belongs in the rant forum. Its a rant and your right to rant, but I don't intend to treat it as a well thought out post when it is a rant.
     
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  33. Dtronic

    Dtronic Season Tickets Sec. 150

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    This isn't a rant. He gives his opinions and then reason to back them up.
     
  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Lipstick on a rant is still a rant.
     
  35. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I don't think there's a way to come up with a measure of success that won't devolve into circular arguments about coaching or talent.
     
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  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm not even going to get into this subject because, quite frankly, the situation on the Dolphins roster speaks for itself.

    I thought the study published in a thread a while ago was a good last ditch effort to come up with some reasons to believe that people are being too hard on Jeff Ireland, but ultimately that study proved to be poorly designed and poorly disclaimed as to the biases that the construction of the study naturally gave. The Miami Dolphins coincidentally had literally the biggest advantage in the entire league based purely on how much Chart Value the team used in which Drafts (not their drafting skill), because of the way the study was constructed.

    Since that study was proven to be a failure, I think Jeff Ireland's lost his fig leaf, and the extent to which he comes up short is now pretty self-evident.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes it is.

    It was the first game and his reasons are based on pre season and one game of stats. He's also speculating negatively about the rookie QB and HC. That is precisely the type of thing that qualifies as a rant.
     
  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    When a poster has already stated his "opinion" on the matter ad nauseam and harshly criticizes others who don't share his opinion on the matter [calling them Ireland apologists, Kool-Aid drinkers, Ireland fan club members], then it can't be treated as anything other than a subjective rant. The OP cried wolf a long time ago, so he can't suddenly claim objectivity on the matter.
     
  39. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Any old way you'd like to do it. It would matter if you put together a compelling, evidence-based argument that you can consistently support.
     
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  40. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I believe the talent level displayed by this roster will consistently support the statements I've made here over the course of the season. That's why I'm starting this thread now. We can revisit after each game whether I'm right or wrong.
     
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