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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Salary Cap' started by GARDENHEAD, Oct 26, 2009.
no...PUT HIM IN A CORNER
You want to re-think that thought right in the middle Pete?
Why would I?
He was definitely worth more this past offseason than he is now, and he could be worth more than a 5th (which is the most he could possibly be worth right now) by the end of the year.
I don't see how anything has changed to alter what I said.
I would be far more concerned with the money we are paying our offensive line. We are getting average production for elite pay. if there is a salry black hole that's where it is. Other than Jake Grove, I'm not sure any lineman is playing up to his contract hit
can we just play with 10 men on the field and save ourselves the future mistakes? Sometimes less is more, no?
Right because he totally proved last game that he shouldn't be out there. All those mistakes he made like 3rd down conversions and good field position on KRs definitely weren't useful.
he sure isnt worth a damn at returning, thats for sure.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
7 catches for 54 yards with 0 TDs in the past 5 games doesn't really spark a fire and scream reliability either. Just sayin.
I wish they could fine him 100K every time he runs out of bounds and gives up on a return when a cut inside or hell just falling forward could get a few more yards.
Ted Ginn is the new Ronnie Brown. No matter what he does, there will always be people hating on him.
I'd like to see a stat of our average starting field position before he was put on kickoffs and after. I seem to remember a lot of drives that used to start at the 20 now start at the 40.
If that means he ducks out of bounds sometimes I'll take it. I'd rather win games than prove a point.
His average return is 30.4 yards, if you take away the two home runs it's about 24 yards.
My entire point is that by shorting a return for fear of contact he's not giving the offense the full benefit and that will cost us games if anything driving a longer field.
I understand he isn't perfect - but looking at a hypothetical situation in which we lose a game because he didn't take a hit and get an extra 2 yards - vs the Jets game that he actually won us with his return abilities seems to be nitpicking.
And returning isn't like a running back - the big returns are why you put guys back there, you can't take those out of the equation. Would you rather we have someone like Bess who is no threat in the return game? Not only are his returns good - but teams kicking away from him has already given us better field position numerous times. I don't see teams saying, "Well, he is afraid to take a hit so we'll just kick it to him."
He is 4th in the league in returns of 40+ yards, with less returns than anyone ahead of him.
I just think the guy could be doing so much more if he would fight it out once in a while, take the hard cut inside. I've had the pleasure of seeing every kick off return of his this season and I can't count the number of times that I've been screaming because he ducks out of bounds when a there was one person being blocked directly in his path instead of running to the middle of the field and potentially a bigger return for better field position of a TD.
I'm not familiar enough with his college career - is this something he has always done or new in his time in Miami?
Same with going down after catching the ball.
maybe but unlike joshua cribbs who people wanted here he's played every game. the macho stuff makes no sense when you're only talking about five yards. granted there have been a handful of times when i thought he couldve gotten more but when you're programmed to live to fight another day i dont have a problem with the elite speed guys running out of bounds. someone who runs a 4.6 better cut it inside, someone who runs a sub 4.4 can run out of bounds. dont want to lose him. st louis rams receivers under mike martz did it all the time. noone complained
How do you know it would have just been five yards? That deep into the return one good cut can set up 10-20-50 more yards on a return.
Someone would have if I had been a Rams fan
true you never know. but the sprinters cant be asked to be football players. next thing you know cornerbacks like deion sanders will be asked to tackle what kind of sick game are you advocating. the way i look at it is football players in the middle of the field and trasck and field guys outside lol
Ted Ginn and Ronnie Brown have one thing in common, the team they play on.
As for Ginn, he signed a 5 year 19.6 million contract with 14 million guaranteed. His base salaries are 2007: .285, 2008: .370, 2009:677,917, 2010: 1,035,833, 2011: 1,393,750 and 2012: 1,801,667. Add up the base salaries and you get 5,564,167. His signing bonus was 9.85 mil. He also has another 4.15 mil in bonuses scattered through his contract which I believe have been paid out.
If we release/trade him, you are looking at the remaining protated bonuses and then the remaining bonuses which havent been paid out. I believe that so far 1.2 mil of the 4.15 have been paid outand he has 3 mil in incentives payable this year.
So you have 3 x 1.970 in signing bonus proration which is 5.91 million left.
Got this from Philter he runs our salary cap
They also have the same type of fanbase. There are still people on this website who think Ronnie Brown was not worth the #2 pick, not a good RB, someone who should be traded, etc. They are never going to change their mind.
The same thing is happening with Ted Ginn.
The difference is that Ronnie has done something consistently over his career to disprove the naysayers.
Ginn has not.
Kidding. I love Ronnie but just showing that there are two sides to every argument. People who knock Ronnie can easily point out he's never played 16 games. People who support Ginn can easily point out he has won us 1-2 this year.
I think the point of the thread was to figure out the impact of cutting Ginn - it is huge. His value as a kick returner and project WR that may or may not pan out is worth more than the $5 cap hit.
why would you take away the 2 runs ? they happened, it really is funny how people take away big plays from a player to make him look more average
It has nothing to do with making him look average, it has everything to do with what we should expect in returns on kicks where he does not break it all the way.
Because in reality he typically doesn't get a 30 yard average, he gets closer to 24 because two returns of 100 yards certainly throw the average way the hell off given the relatively small number of returns.
If we base our expectations with two exceptional plays in them he will, as he typically does, fall short of expectation.
If you take away his 2 longest, you need to take away his two shortest as well. I would bet if you did the average would be more like 26 ypr, which would still put him in the top 10. Of course the other top returners would look pretty average if you took their longest 2 away as well. Oh wait not average, but it would be closer to what you should expect on each return.
I think that Ronnie Brown has proven his worth to the Dolphins more than anyone else this year (or last). Henne has played well, Chad Pennington did okay before being hurt, Fasano and Bess really good...but no one has done what Ronnie has done for the Dolphins.
As for Ginn, honestly I'm simply tired of saying "give him a chance" he had plenty. He's dropped the ball in far too many games, games we could have won like against the Colts and we even had chances against the Saints...but thanks to Ted we have nothing. Not only dropped in games, but dropped potential touchdowns !! There's no excuse for that. You know why Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Payton Manning are all having great years? Because they ACTUALLY HAVE receivers willing to catch the ball, hang on, and take the hit. Ginn looks afraid of contact.
I saw Shockey take a heck of a massive hit the other night against the PATS, know what? He held it, took the hit, picked up the first and moved onto the next series of plays. Why can't we?? We have to start thinking about getting Pennington and Henne a couple true targets. Then we'll be able to pick up 10+ yrds. per play from the air, become an explosive offense and be dangerous from the ground and air attack. We strike no fear in the hearts of our opponents when we're in a set offensive passing down. We're primarily a running/ smash mouth football team which is cool, but we have to make them respect the passing games as well. We also need to move to better play calling on the offensive side. I watched the calls being made for the Bills game and say no wonder we lost this game. Charlie Weiss? former offensive coordinator for the Jets and PATS?? Definitely one of the Bill Parcell's boys. Don't be surprised when you see him in Davie, Florida and remember where you heard it first...
ginn is a sissy peter puffer and i luv the phins.
Not a great way to start your Phins.com career.
I think he will be cut or traded, unless he restructures his contract in a more favorable & appropriate manner that would allow the FrontOffice to give him a year four to get off the floor & develop into a football player.
So how exactly do you propose he restructure?
It's laughable about how people want to cut him because of "all this money he makes"... I don't think people know the contract situations very well on certain players.
Right. He's probably overpaid, but restructuring his contract isn't in any way beneficial to the team.
For his production, likely. But it's not like he's Joey Porter overpaid... I can understand if you want to cut him for production.. I don't agree with it, but I can understand. I don't understand why you would cut him for contract reasons though.
Keep Ginn bandwagon...