Ted Ginn...

Inconsistent? What are you talking about he has been playing solid since his break out game. WR drop passes all the time I didn't hear anything on that big 4th and 5 against Oakland. Me thinks you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

And this is why I don't agree with picking him ninth overall. You just prioritized Ginn's value as being a kick returner first, and a receiver second. I agree with you in that, I think that is what CamMuel thought as well. The problem I have is that you don't draft a kick returner with the NINTH OVERALL pick.

Not when you had as many holes as we did and still do on our team. If Ginn had been a great receiver, or clearly the BEST receiver in the draft? then maybe I think about taking him that high. However he was neither of those things, so now, you just drafted a great kick returner (which has gotten us exactly, zero tds so far in close to two years) on the hopes that he may, one day, develop into a great receiver.

Not solid drafting in my opinion and one of the many reasons that regime is no longer here. But like I said, I root for Ted Ginn. I like Ted Ginn. He is a Dolphin and I am a Dolphins fan. I just don't see him as a number one wide receiver right now.

 

Can you honestly say that? Who knows he might turn out to be the best WR in the draft its only his second year.

I think its funny some people think Ginn isn't allowed to make mistakes.

 

I'm not even going to bother entertaining this argument again (I'll save it for the offseason), but I think it's safe to say that this offense takes away from Ted Ginn's abilities. If that isn't obvious to any of you, then I don't know what else there is to say. Furthermore, Chad Pennington who I am a fan of, doesn't have the arm strength necessary for Ginn to be utilized correctly. To call the guy a bust at this point is ridiculous. He's basically a decoy on 60-70% of our passing plays. Come on.

DeSean Jackson, for example, would be a lot less impressive in this offense.

 

Samphin, I understand Mr. Ginn hasn't proven it yet as TO, Moss, Rice etc. I think that's just where we stand though. He hasn't proven he isn't going to be good either. He's in his second year. He's got 4 drops. Earlier in the year he wasn't dropping anything and he wasn't catching anything either.

He's improving, we'll see if he develops the dropsies. But WRs drop passes. It's a fact of life. No matter which WR. We dont' hang on every pass of every WR of every team, so we focus on Ginn. When Wilford was picked up, I scanned some Jag sites and they said his hands were shaky. I come here (or was it the old place?) and posters were exclaiming this red zone threat with good hands. Why the difference in perception?

 

His stats are perfectly fine for a second year man. At his current progression, a 1000 yard year by his third year seems likely. That's a successful receiver. His drops are not nearly as bad as advertised.

 

The only thing that bothered me yesterday about Ted G was on his kick returns. It looks like he is not running at full speed when he hit the hole. Did anybody else notice that?

 

[mod]do not insult your fellow members![/mod]

 

So how long does he get until everyone starts expecting more out of him? Next year? The year after that? I realize it is his second year and yes, he is allowed to make mistakes, but when you drop a third down pass that gives you a first down, as opposed to giving your opponent the ball, I'm sorry, but you are going to get critiqued negatively. ESPECIALLY when the ball hits you in the hands. I saw the same thing happen in the Steelers game with Santonio Holmes and feel the same way.

A true number one makes those catches.

I couldn't care less about Wilford. As far as I am concerned, he isn't even on our team.

Getting back to Ginn, yes, we do focus on Ginn. Again, he was the ninth overall pick, you tend to watch and scrutinize those higher draft picks closer than say, a late rounder or undrafted free agent. And it should be that way. For the amount of mney they are paying Ginn, and the players they overlooked when they reached and took him, he better be prepared to play and play well.

While I agree that his numbers have improved, and I am happy about that, he still does a lotof careless and stupid things.

For example, not getting out of bounds at the end of the first half when time was running out against New England last week. Running backwards on the kick return that almost cost us a safety and constantly going a yard or two short of the first down line on 3rd and whatever. Those are mistakes that he can't afford to make.

Dumb football players make those mistakes.

 

where is an example of that? i don't recall him consistantly being short of the 1st down more than any other receiver on our team.

Ginn is on pace for about 900 yards. thats a good season for a year 2 WR. if you're expecting mistake free football from a second year receiver who was known as raw coming out your expectations are too high.

Once again i have to repeat the mantra of, do not judge a player till the end of their 3rd year.

 

You learn from experience... And you learn from mistakes.. Simply stating dumb football players make those mistakes is incorrect, IMO.

Saying dumb football players make those mistakes repeatedly would be more acceptable....

After Ginn dropped the third down pass (which he probably would not have stayed in bounds anyways), you seen him on the sideline working on making the catch. How can you honestly criticize a guy so heavy that is actually trying to learn from his mistakes?

Wasn't it the greatest basketball player of all time that said this quote?

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed. "

Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you learn from them that matters... And Ginn is making an effort to learn from them. Give him three years before you throw out the bust/failure tag...

Most people here seem to the follow the 3 year plan with rookies, especially wide receivers... If you're suppose to judge a rookie draft class 3 years later, how can you write off someone who has played a little over 1.5 seasons... With two COMPLETE DIFFERENT coaching staffs... Remember, there was like what? 2 or 3 holdovers from the Cameron era?

 

True number ones also miss those catches. Jerry Rice is the greatest WR of all time, and I would bet mucho dinero he's dropped 3rd down and 4th down passes.

I'm not even going to touch that last statement. It is clear where everyone stands on this subject. Cheers.

 

I was personally more upset with Martin's fumble than I was Ginns drop.

 

Let's ignore all the great plays he has made, and focus on the few where he messed up. While we're at it, let's bash Pennington for the 2 int for tds he threw. One cost us a game, and the other almost did. We should be calling for his head, right? Or isn't that a little hypocritical because we got Chad for free. Mistakes are ok then.

I guarantee that none of our coaches give two ****s about where Ginn was drafted. It makes no sense whatsoever to deem it acceptable for some players to make mistakes, and then crucify others for not being perfect based solely on where they were drafted.

 

I have NOT called Ginn a bust. Again, I think people feel that if you hold people accountable, you automatically hate that person and want them to fail. Nothing could be further from the truth. I want Ginn to succeed, especially so that I can point and laugh at our fellow AFC East fans.

So, three years then. After three years it is okay to judge him as a player? Again, I have not called him a bust, but I will critique him when it is needed.

And Ginn HAS repeated the same mistakes over and over again, that is my point. Dumb players do not learn.

 

I don't know if Ginn will become an Elite player, I think its more likely he becomes something like Terry Glenn. Can he be special? Yes, Can he be a #1 on our team? Yes.

I'm just not so sure about the Elite part, I hope he does!

 

Agreed there. But Martin has redeemed himself a ton this year and was trying to protect the ball when the defender made a play. But yes, that fumble annoyed me to no end.

I never said the mistakes were acceptable. I have lambasted Chad when he has thrown bad passes and made dumb mistakes, and I have already stated that Bess should have caught that ball.

However, it is false to think that draft position doesn't come into the fold when making decisions about personel. If Ryan Leaf had been a 6th round draft pick, the Chargers wouldn't have had the egg on their face that they did as him being a first round pick. Mistakes are never acceptable, but when they come from a lower profile player, they are expected, to a degree.

 

i wasnt addressing you specifically. but the fact that you lambaste everyone for making mistakes don't make it right. Our team is leading the league in fewest turnovers. The mistakes we have been so familiar with in the past aren't nearly as frequent now. We haven't lost many games because of individual player mistakes. The Jets loss was a team loss. The Cardinals loss was a team loss. The Texans loss was the special teams fault. The Ravens loss was Fergy's "fault", with an honorable mention to Chad. The Pats loss was the defense fault. It's not boneheaded mistakes that are costing us games. We have less talent in our secondary than anyone in our division. We are starving for depth at offensive line. We can't forget that we are in the first year of a MAJOR rebuild. Holding players to unreachable standards is kind of silly. Every team in the league makes mistakes. Dropped passes, interceptions, and untimely fumbles are just part of the game. Again, we have the fewest of these mistakes of any team. So could we please stop harrassing our players?

I would venture to say that money is more of an issue than draft position when personnel decisions are made. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether the player is a starter or not. Earnest Wilford is a great example.

 

Ginn has repeated the same mistakes over and over again...

Like what? Dropped passes? Every receiver drops passes, look at Terrell Owens...

I believe that was the first time he's ever tried to make something out of nothing on a kick return... It happens, give it a rest... As long as he isn't making a habit out of it, I wouldn't think much of it.

Personally I don't see how your statement on Ginn makes much sense. I don't see him making the same mistakes over and over again, the kid has a learning disability to boot.

I apologize if you felt I was saying you called Ginn a bust... But you have to remember that your words can draw indirect conclusions, whether they're right or wrong...

 

many qbs make tons of stupid throws their first couple of years, lineman make tons of stupid penalties, as well as getting run over. By your theory they are all stupid after 1.5 years no?

 

Critiquing of Ginn is fine. Encouraged. Enjoyed. It's the other stuff though, like saying true #1's don't miss those catches. They don't always miss them, but they do occasionally. Ginn has made some very very clutch grabs. When you're in a tight one, as the Dolphins seem to be doing every single freaking week, each drop, 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th down, are excruciating. But hey, how does he handle it? Does he improve? Is he trying to improve?

What's missed in his drop is that his foot landed out of bounds anyway. Does he put the foot in if he catches it? Who knows

 

I'm glad Ginn caught the 4th and 5 against the raiders, or else we would be like the jets and lost to the raiders. Great non drop Ginn, great non drop. Your clutch catch put us in a position to seal out a game.

Ginn has been fine, even with the drops. Thats called life. Things drop from time to time, for everyone.