Ted Ginn is the new Chris Chambers

"NaboCane wrote:

Sean Smith makes that catch. :wink2:

I was actually going to include that in my huge rant I posted, lol.

You're being a bit facetious, but we're so damn creative, why not try him at the end of the day? We're 0-2, why not give it a shot? He's clearly shown he's a better jump ball weapon at this point than anyone else on the roster. Maybe they don't want him moonlighting this early? :confused2: But this staff is so damn smart, you know they have to have at least considered it.

While we're looking for players to blame, why the hell can't Turner be active? He sure would have been useful on those red zone plays. He's looking like this year's Shawn Murphy.

"Vengeful Odin wrote:

Dammit, that was my point ... it's a flawed comparison because Chambers was a highlight reel who couldn't make routine catches.

Last night Ginn was a possession receiver who couldn't make highlight reel catches. That's my issue. Ginn is clearly, after last night, a #2.

Your #1, whether that be TO, Randy Moss, Steve Smith, Fitz, Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, OchoCinco, Bowe, Colston, Bryant, Roy Williams, Edwards, Manningham, Houshmanzadeh, Boldin, Holt, Santana Moss, Jackson, Wayne, Jennings, Santonio Holmes, or someone else I've forgotten, makes that play last night.

That's what great players do. They make great plays. Ginn is simply a good player on a good team. All of those guys I listed make that catch - one critical catch - to win the game. Ginn's tremendous game (and it was tremendous) doesn't matter much because he didn't come up when we needed him.

you're stretching on a lot of those players. We have yet to see Manningham (one game makes him clutch!? he SHOULD have dropped his big td the other night, hes just lucky it bounced back into his hands), Bowe, Braylon Edwards (we're talking about drops right?), Housh, Bryant, Jackson or Roy Williams make any big time clutch plays. And Santana Moss? You're kidding me right? The dude has never EVER come through when needed. EVER.

But that's just proof that there aren't many #1's in this league. I agree with the rest of your list. but that means only half the league has a 'true' #1.

The first "drop" in the endzone was not a drop. It wasn't in his hands. It was the secomd throw in a row from Pennington that was slightly overthrown. Ginn can do nothimg right for his critics. There are certain "fans" who hated his pick so much that they actually wan him to fail so that they can be "right" about him. He has made good progress every ywar since he was drafted. Should he have caught that ball at the end of the game? Yes. However, it's not like he's had tons of experience catching that ball a the NFL level. It also should have been PI, with us having a chance to punch it in from the one. I can't wait until we have a QB in the game who can actually hit him in stride on a deep ball. When we have that, Ginn will be catching td's, and will be a "playmaker" for us.

No fan of the Phins should be as invested in this kids failure as some of you are.
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"CitizenSnips wrote:

you're stretching on a lot of those plays. We have yet to see Manningham (one game makes him clutch!?), Bowe, Braylon Edwards (we're talking about drops right?), Housh, Bryant, or Roy Williams make any big time clutch plays. And Santana Moss? You're kidding me right? The dude has never EVER come through when needed. EVER.

But that's just proof that there aren't many #1's in this league. I agree with the rest of your list. but that means only half the league has a 'true' #1.

Drops are okay - TO leads the league in that department - but I want someone I can turn to when the game is on the line. I think that I'd look to all of those guys to win the game before Ted. That's all I'm really saying.

Heck, if it's any consolation, I considered adding Josh Morgan, Bernard Berrian, and Devin Hester to the list. But I thought that would be pushing it. :lol:

"Vengeful Odin wrote:

I was actually going to include that in my huge rant I posted, lol.

You're being a bit facetious, but we're so damn creative, why not try him at the end of the day? We're 0-2, why not give it a shot? He's clearly shown he's a better jump ball weapon at this point than anyone else on the roster. Maybe they don't want him moonlighting this early? :confused2: But this staff is so damn smart, you know they have to have at least considered it.

While we're looking for players to blame, why the hell can't Turner be active? He sure would have been useful on those red zone plays. He's looking like this year's Shawn Murphy.

Being able to put Turner out there in red zone situations would be nice; another reason to hate that damned inactive list.

Another thing I wondered: Brian Hartline made a really nice grab with a DB draped all over him early in the game; I wonder why he wasn't used more?

"resnor wrote:

The first "drop" in the endzone was not a drop. It wasn't in his hands. It was the secomd throw in a row from Pennington that was slightly overthrown. Ginn can do nothimg right for his critics. There are certain "fans" who hated his pick so much that they actually wan him to fail so that they can be "right" about him. He has made good progress every ywar since he was drafted. Should he have caught that ball at the end of the game? Yes. However, it's not like he's had tons of experience catching that ball a the NFL level. It also should have been PI, with us having a chance to punch it in from the one. I can't wait until we have a QB in the game who can actually hit him in stride on a deep ball. When we have that, Ginn will be catching td's, and will be a "playmaker" for us.

No fan of the Phins should be as invested in this kids failure as some of you are.
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It was a drop. It hit him in the hands and he didn't catch it, that's the definition of a drop.

"Vengeful Odin wrote:

Drops are okay - TO leads the league in that department - but I want someone I can turn to when the game is on the line. I think that I'd look to all of those guys to win the game before Ted. That's all I'm really saying.

Heck, if it's any consolation, I considered adding Josh Morgan, Bernard Berrian, and Devin Hester to the list. But I thought that would be pushing it. :lol:

ok, i can agree with that. But Ted still has a chance to prove he can be that guy this season. We'll see how it goes. I know i'd take Ginn over a few guys on that list. Not many, but a few.

No fan of the Phins should be as invested in this kids failure as some of you are.

Says the guy with a "Ted Ginn Mafia" sig

Most of us just want it understood that he is NOT a number 1 WR, so we can keep looking.

I'm more than willing to give him his props as a possession receiver...

TO let a crucial pass go through his hands going down the sideline last game that would have been a TD for them. Guess he's not a number one. Moss let Revis pick off a ball to him on the sideline, gurss he's not a number one.
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"jetssuck wrote:

Are you sure of that?

I mean a squirrel makes a home out of a tree, finds his food in a tree..........basically figures out how to survive off of a tree and yet you think you know more about a tree?

I was told to watch more football by someone that wasn't even born when I had over 20 years of watching football under my belt. How should I respond according to you then? Should I have said "yes sir, thank you for your guidance"..........Gimme a break

I'm not saying that you should have just accepted it, I'm pointing out that some folks watch a game and say "**** TED GINN!!!!" and others say "We controlled the time of possession, our offense was clicking, but our defense gave up alot of big plays and we had trouble stopping the opposing TE for the second week in a row.". Just because someone, not necessarily you, has watched more football than someone else, that doesn't mean that you (general) know anymore than the next person. Some folks know what to look for and others overreact.

"jetssuck wrote:

It's not just a matter of height...it's his lack of physicality

Ginn has a pacifist mentality out on the field. The guy won't fight for an extra yard much less the football.

Not at all, as Boomer pointed out, most of Ginn's catches were outs to the sideline or into heavy traffic, there really wasn't much room for him to turn those catches into big gains. That shouldn't be looked upon as he's afraid or a pacifist, that's just the nature of those plays.

"padre31 wrote:

Jags rookie Nate Hughes dropped two TD passes on Sunday and he was released, Ginn drops two TD's and he is misunderstood?

So a rookie that didn't show much in Jacksonville gets released and he's now on par with a player who has improved each year that he's been in the league and is now our #1 WR (whether you like it or not)?

A comparable comment would be "John David Booty threw an interception during the Vikings final preseason game and the Vikes cut him. Pennington threw an interception last night, so why is he still here?"

Ginn didn't drop two TD passes, the first one was overthrown.

I can understand fandom, I cannot understand why the magnitude of Ginn's drops is being minimized?

Why are those plays being exaggerated (2 dropped TD passes)?

"jetssuck wrote:

Says the guy with a "Ted Ginn Mafia" sig

Most of us just want it understood that he is NOT a number 1 WR, so we can keep looking.

I'm more than willing to give him his props as a possession receiver...

LMAO

THAT'S your response? You realize that is simply a leftover from the Survivor thread, right? Fact is, you really can't judge Ginn's ability as a deep threat until you have a QB out there who can make the intermediate to long throws. That QB is NOT Pennington. Give it a rest. Go back to calling Ronnie a bust.

Actually, that's a better thread title: "Ted Ginn Jr. is the new Ronnie Brown."
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"CashInFist wrote:

No matter what anyone on here says the bottom line is that if Ted Ginn makes either one of those crucial TD catches we win. :yes:

assuming the game was just that one play sure.

"NaboCane wrote:

It was a drop. It hit him in the hands and he didn't catch it, that's the definition of a drop.

Actually, not that's not. Drops as counted are defined by passes that should have been caught with normal effort. if you're interfered with, you're interfered with. The ball hits his front hand at the top. Not in the bread basket.

Is anyone else finding it ironic that Ginn is being criticized for being a possesion receiver by the same people who believe Devon Bess is better than him? and that those same people probably criticized him from the onset of his career that he would not be able to do anything but run fast?or how about the fact that considering our Quarterback cannot throw past 15 yards its impossible for Ginn,one of the fastest players in the NFl, or anyone else on our team, to be anything but a possession receiver if they want to succeed?

"Dannyg28 wrote:

Is anyone else finding it ironic that Ginn is being criticized for being a possesion receiver by the same people who believe Devon Bess is better than him? and that those same people probably criticized him from the onset of his career that he would not be able to do anything but run fast?or how about the fact that considering our Quarterback cannot throw past 15 yards its impossible for Ginn,one of the fastest players in the NFl, or anyone else on our team, to be anything but a possession receiver if they want to succeed?

all very true.

"resnor wrote:

LMAO

THAT'S your response? You realize that is simply a leftover from the Survivor thread, right? Fact is, you really can't judge Ginn's ability as a deep threat until you have a QB out there who can make the intermediate to long throws. That QB is NOT Pennington. Give it a rest. Go back to calling Ronnie a bust.

Actually, that's a better thread title: "Ted Ginn Jr. is the new Ronnie Brown."
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Well I suppose when that's all you have to hold onto, you hold on tight

"jetssuck wrote:

Well I suppose when that's all you have to hold onto, you hold on tight

And when you can't argue the points I bring up, you complain about my sig. I post alot from my iphone, so changing my sig is a PITA. Get over it.

You blind hatred of Ginn is unnerving and unhealthy.
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I'm not saying that you should have just accepted it, I'm pointing out that some folks watch a game and say "**** TED GINN!!!!" and others say "We controlled the time of possession, our offense was clicking, but our defense gave up alot of big plays and we had trouble stopping the opposing TE for the second week in a row.". Just because someone, not necessarily you, has watched more football than someone else, that doesn't mean that you (general) know anymore than the next person. Some folks know what to look for and others overreact.

I'm not of the **** Ted Ginn, or Ginn sucks crowd.......I don't post like that. To me those posts are as useless as the posts where ppl go out of their way and over a cliff to defend someone.

All I have done is state my opinions on him.....what that got me was being told to "watch more football"
by someone that couldn't have possibly watched more than I. And your first reaction was to defend him for it.....I'm a little baffled by that to be honest..

Not at all, as Boomer pointed out, most of Ginn's catches were outs to the sideline or into heavy traffic, there really wasn't much room for him to turn those catches into big gains. That shouldn't be looked upon as he's afraid or a pacifist, that's just the nature of those plays.

And Boomer couldn't be more wrong....

Why are those plays being exaggerated (2 dropped TD passes)?

Having the game winning TD hit you squarely in the hands, needs no help, it magnifies itself...

Ginn dropped 3 balls or more last night and yes it caused Miami the game. Espn was all over Ginn today pointing out Ginns lack of concentration catching a ball that hit him in his hands.
Wasn't it practice last week Ginn dropped a ball and the coach yelled out concentrate on what the hell you are doing ? Does Ginn lack concentration and if so when will he learn it ? I mean it only took him 3 years to learn to run a route, so how many more years to learn to concentrate ? I have a basic question for everyone including the Ginn lovers on the board. If Miami were to trade Ginn right now would they get a first round pick for him ? Be honest because I think they be hard pressed to get a second round for him. I am not suggesting Miami will or should trade Ginn as we have too much invested in him and we could never comp the investment.

"GridIronKing34 wrote:

You need to watch more football then.

Marvin Harrison avoided contact, no one bitched about that.

If it had ever cost my team somehow I would certainly have bitched about it.

I don;t think ginn was 'sacred' necessarily last night, but he is just not a naturally physical player and it shows when push comes to shove etc.

His routes have gotten much better though.

If we could add a bigger, more "#1WR" body type to this offense and let Ginn play a role that suits his style of play instead of throwing him jump balls in the endzone on hail mary's, we would amazing.

I am actually more surprised that he didn;t make a Jets-like fingertip catch on the earlier 'back of the endzone' pass he almost got. That's his type of ball.

"resnor wrote:

And when you can't argue the points I bring up, you complain about my sig. I post alot from my iphone, so changing my sig is a PITA. Get over it.

You blind hatred of Ginn is unnerving and unhealthy.
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for who?.....I feel fine, you're the one getting bent over nothing.

Bring up some actual points and we'll debate it...until then enjoy being part of the mafia or whatever it is...lol

I've brought up points. How about you address the lack of a QB on the field who can throw the intermediate to long pass? Do you or don't you think that affects Ginn's playmaking ability that he supposedly lacks? Or how about talking about why you expect a 5'10" receiver who isn't a jumper, and hasn't had many chances at the NFL level to make a catch in that situation, to make the catch like a 6'4" receiver?
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"Dannyg28 wrote:

Is anyone else finding it ironic that Ginn is being criticized for being a possesion receiver by the same people who believe Devon Bess is better than him? and that those same people probably criticized him from the onset of his career that he would not be able to do anything but run fast?or how about the fact that considering our Quarterback cannot throw past 15 yards its impossible for Ginn,one of the fastest players in the NFl, or anyone else on our team, to be anything but a possession receiver if they want to succeed?

No one is basing their criticisms on him being a possession receiver, we're pointing it out to those of you holding your breaths until he "breaks out" as a true number one.....

And don't blame Penny for him being a possession WR.......he is what he is

"Bpk wrote:

If it had ever cost my team somehow I would certainly have bitched about it.

I don;t think ginn was 'sacred' necessarily last night, but he is just not a naturally physical player and it shows when push comes to shove etc.

His routes have gotten much better though.

If we could add a bigger, more "#1WR" body type to this offense and let Ginn play a role that suits his style of play instead of throwing him jump balls in the endzone on hail mary's, we would amazing.

I am actually more surprised that he didn;t make a Jets-like fingertip catch on the earlier 'back of the endzone' pass he almost got. That's his type of ball.

Well you didn't have to complain about it with Marvin because the ball usually hits Colts WR in stride. Yeah I know, Peyton one of the best ever. Of the passes last night, how many hit our WR in stride? How many quick outs were floated in the air? When Penny has the time, and the lane, he can deliver a pretty decent short and intermediate pass, not great, but decent. But if it's something that requires a quick throw, or similar, it's usually not pretty.

"jetssuck wrote:

No one is basing their criticisms on him being a possession receiver, we're pointing it out to those of you holding your breaths until he "breaks out" as a true number one.....

And don't blame Penny for him being a possession WR.......he is what he is

Explain to me how Pennington's physical limitations don't limit Ginn? Sure, Pennington's limitations have made Ginn a better route runner, but they also keep Pennington from hitting Ginn when he's behind the defense 30 yards downfield. Manning, Brady, Cutler, Ryan, Rivers, even Favre are hitting Ginn for massive gains if they're under center for the Dolphins. Henne needs to start this year, soon, IMO.
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