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Tannenbaum says Dolphins will make responsible decision on Wallace

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by FinSane, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Dude there comes a time when a person just needs to admit they are wrong. Stop digging yourself into a deeper hole.
     
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  2. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Point is with the team taking away his greatest strength (the deep ball) the guy still managed nearly 900 yards and 10 TDs. Better play calling and a team that actually throws the deep ball he would do even better. Pittsburgh wanted him back but didn't want to pay him the contract Miami did. He does run nice routes and I don't see him dropping passes any more than other receivers. I bet you're one of those guys that blames Wallace for the deep ball incompletions because he didn't slow down and win a jump ball after burning the defender 5-10 yards and being wide open.
     
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  3. speed

    speed Banned

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    His average per catch was 12 yards. That is middle of the pack. And can easily be replaced. I guess I need to explain something to you...

    OK, quiz time...

    How fast is Wallace's 40 time?

    Answer. 4.33. That is very fast. That means that with no impedance, it takes him 4.33 seconds to run 40 yards, in a straight line.

    Now, what is Tannehill's average time in the pocket before defensive contact?

    Earlier in the season it was under 3 seconds.

    So, explain to me how you expect a QB to throw a deep pass of 40 yards when it requires at least 4.33 seconds for the WR to get to the spot? When the line only gives less than 3 seconds to do it???

    Fix the line, fix the deep passing.

    Teach Wallace how to catch with his hands and not his body.

    But the haters will just find something else to cry about, it's what they do.
     
  4. speed

    speed Banned

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    Oh, and I guess I should tell you.

    I played for the Buckeyes, class of 1987.

    How old were you then???
     
  5. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    QBs throw the football before receivers have arrived at the spot at which they catch the ball.
     
  6. speed

    speed Banned

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    Right. About a half second or so.

    How long does it take a ball to travel 40 yards?

    Less than a full second I would bet.
     
  7. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Ryan Tannehill's average time to be sacked in 2014 was 3.15 seconds. That means that about half of his sacks occurred after 3.15 seconds.
     
  8. speed

    speed Banned

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    And that means the pressure got there in less than 3 seconds.

    Thanks.
     
  9. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    And that would be typical in the NFL.
     
  10. speed

    speed Banned

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    Pretty sure it's not. I watch Brady sit back there with an easy 5-7 seconds to find the WR and make the throw.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The $1 for $1 is a general principle that all salary cap accounting must abide by. If you paid the player money at signing, or really at any point in the life of his active status on the roster, then it must be expensed. That can happen in advance of the payments (usually in the case of "likely to be earned" incentives), or it can happen during the year of payment, or it can be expensed at some point after payment (best example being signing bonus).

    If you never actually gave that $1 to the player but it was expensed for whatever reason, you will receive a credit toward future salary caps. No exceptions, to my knowledge. You never get charged something on the cap long term that you didn't actually end up paying. Probably the best example of this would be if you inserted an incentive into a contract and it were deemed likely to be earned, then it got expensed that year. But if the guy didn't earn it, you will get an equal credit back from the league on the following year's salary cap.

    So looking at your hypothetical scenario...you have a player GUARANTEED $10 million next year. If you cut him, you're on the hook for the difference between whatever money he makes from his new team in that year, and the guaranteed amount of $10 million. In all likelihood the player will screw you. He and his new team may negotiate a super low salary knowing that the Dolphins have to make up the difference.

    But in the case of only $3.0 million guaranteed, that changes the incentives and game theory a bit. Mike Wallace is not going to want to make only $3.0 million in 2015. So he's going to negotiate with the new team as if that $3.0 million backstop doesn't exist. If it were $10.0 million then the only incentive Wallace would have for maximizing the 2015 salary with his new team would be if he knew he could make more than $10 million in 2015. I kind of doubt that, especially if the Dolphins cut him and therefore signal to the league that he's a problem. But $3.0 million? Child, please. Wallace would probably make at least $6 million next year from a new team...letting Miami off the hook for that $3.0 million completely.
     
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  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, not necessarily it doesn't. That's not how averages work. Let's say I take 4 sacks, and on three of them I'm sacked in 2 seconds, and the fourth I'm sacked in 6 seconds. That would be 4 sacks = 12 seconds. Average time for a sack would be 3 seconds. Would it be accurate to say that half my sacks came after 3 seconds? Absolutely not, since actually, it was 1/4 of the sacks came after 3.
     
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  13. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Those are plays in which there is no pressure at any point in the play, or pressure arrives atypically late. In fact, about two thirds (66%) of Tom Brady's throws occur within 2.5 seconds of the snap.
     
  14. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    Considering that one can't be sacked in zero seconds or sooner, it's actually likely that the sacks were skewed in the direction of a greater duration of time after the snap, and the majority of his sacks occurred after 3.15 seconds. I was being conservative, in fact, in saying "about half."
     
  15. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    All these googled stats include so many variables that you simply have to use your eyes to decide.

    Do we know how many times these numbers include pressures when blitzed, or pressure when not blitzing?? Some QB's you simply can't blitz or they will make you pay....some crumble and take the sack.
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude, zero seconds has nothing to do with it. You took average sack time, and made up a stat. The only way you can say what you said, is if you find out how long every sack occurred in. I showed you simple math to illustrate.
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Not to mention, I think the pressure Tannehill was under during most throws is every bit as important as the actual sacks themselves.
     
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  18. Tannephins

    Tannephins Banned

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    I stand by what I said in post #187. Anything beyond that we'll have to agree to disagree about. If you'd like to discuss it more, send me a private message.
     
  19. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    He obviously had bad blocking the past two years, what I want to know is were the Dolphins blitzed abnormally to apply this pressure? Was this pressure coming with 7 def players in coverage?? So many unknown factors apply, was it a designed quick pass we could go on and on.

    What I will say is that without seeing any stats, Tom Brady had more time in the pocket than a lot of QBs...not to mention Ryan.
     
  20. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I know that late in the year it was very common to see three or four man rushes getting fast overwhelming pressure on Tannehill. Teams didn't have to blitz. It was connected on in game threads.
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    LOL
    why would I discuss it in pm? If you have the statistics that back up your claim, post them up. I can make up stats too, if you want.
     
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  22. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    If he has a low blitz % with that amount of pressure, that's a real problem. Only a handful of QBs in this league are good enough to make due in those spots.
     
  23. jcliving

    jcliving Active Member

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    Making a responsible decision is a very good way to describe this problem. If we trade him and end up with a limited WR core as you describe, the it is hard to say it was a good decision. There multiple components to this decision: do you have an almost guaranteed (90%) plan for replacing his skill set and functional responsibilities within the offense, a fair measure of his value to the team, does he undermine the coaches ability to run the team, and does his release or trade help the cap situation (must include replacement cost in this one).

    A responsible, mature, decision after full due diligence is exactly what the team needs.
     
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  24. speed

    speed Banned

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    Exactly right. This really can't be this hard for people to comprehend, can it???

    The worst of the pressure on Tannehill came right up the middle. So I am watching the Packers vs. Dallas right now. Wow. That's a nice, defined pocket that I see Romo and Rodgers stepping up into.

    When I watch Miami games ( and yes, every one of the is on DVR) I see Tannehill complete a 3 step drop and instantly there is a DT in his face. Our interior line play was abhorrent at best.

    See, in order to throw deep there has to be time and room for the QB to step into the throw, it's a physics thing. Anyhow, until the interior of the line is somewhat competent, the QB will continue to be sacked.

    Can't be this hard to understand.

    But then again I am TRUELY concerned about the ability for some to comprehend this it's almost HUMEROUS.
     
  25. speed

    speed Banned

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    Do you want to tell him that the Ravens rarely blitzed at all and got all the sacks with their front 4 and in a couple cases by only rushing 3? I am not talking to him anymore.
     
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  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    BTW, I looked into throwing velocity in the NFL. The record is like 60 mph. Seems that most QBs are in the 50-55 mph range. So, that gets you to like 24 yards per second, if my math was correct.
     
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  27. speed

    speed Banned

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    On a side note, what a catch by Dez Bryant.

    Wallace could never do that and wouldn't even try.

    FYI, it was a bad pass.

    WR bailing out the QB on a bad pass????

    Can they do that???
     
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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Romo just underthrew Bryant, and Bryant made a great play. Best case, you could argue that Romo the a ball up for Bryant, but it looked to me like Bryant slowed up to get at that ball. That's what we need. I'd love a receiver who could do that, paired with Wallace and Landry.
     
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  29. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    31 teams want a Dez Bryant...

    By the way that was a terrible call, make up for Detroit much??
     
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  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    We literally posted at the same time. Lol

    They just screwed them on that call. Steratore is terrible.
     
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  31. speed

    speed Banned

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    After the Steelers game, I can't believe he still has a job. Absolutely terrible ref.
     
  32. speed

    speed Banned

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    Steratore stole that game from Dallas. Wow.
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That wasn't a catch
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That wasn't a catch.
     
  35. speed

    speed Banned

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    Howie Long and Odell Beckham sure think it was.
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    They are wrong. The rule is clear.

    If you are falling to the ground, the ball hits the ground, you lose control, it is not a catch.
     
  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Bryant's elbow was down before the ball came out...

    Plus, he secured the ball and took at least one step before being tripped up and going to the ground...
     
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  38. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Doesn't matter. The rule is clear. It is all in the process of the catch.
     
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Once your elbow is down, you're down...play is over. Especially if it was secured before going to the ground.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Agree to disagree, I guess. I thought it was a terrible call.
     

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