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Tampa Bay Bucs vs Miami Dolphins - Pre-Season Game Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bpk, Aug 24, 2013.

  1. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    what else would you need to do on a sunday between september and january in the USA ?
     
  2. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    that saints defense still looks like a work in progress
     
  3. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    bounties were the source of their power
     
  4. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ever been to the Bay area? There's a ton to do.
     
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Its harder to score if you can't move the ball down the field. We did score, btw. 13 points. We had a couple of drops in the endzone which would have changed things. buts not like that was an exercise in futility.

    I don't think FGs win per se. Missing 2 did cost us two games last year.

    Again, in a full game of work, Tannehill is knocking it out of the park. His stats don't lie.

    And don't call me Shirley.
     
  6. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    On the first TO on the kickoff the ball hits the Bucs defender in the back and the refs say it hit the Dolphins player? That's the type of BS that we can expect to see during the regular season.
     
  7. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    It was a good call. They showed one angle where it was clear it hit Carroll's arm first.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Jon Martin had a tough night last night after a decent showing in his previous 38 pass snaps. I had him allowing 3 QB hits, 1 hurry.

    Also got beat another time in the 2nd quarter by Clayborn in pass pro. Got thrown backward by Lavonte David on a pass rush to where Martin kept skidding back like on roller skates while David cut to the inside and had free access to the quarterback. But Richie Incognito's man got the sack on the play before David could. He got beat on a speed to power on the Dolphins touchdown drive to end the half, a play where Ryan Tannehill was trying to go to Charles Clay but had to rush the ball out because he was about to get hit by the defender. On the touchdown play he followed his assignment a little to the inside on a stunt (properly done) but then tried to pick up a defensive tackle that was looping out to him and he left his chest so wide open the defensive tackle punched him directly onto his arse, a complete KO.

    Beat on a run block by Gerald McCoy on the 1st drive, which contributed to the offense stalling out inside the 10 yard line. Missed a cutoff block on Derek Landri in ground blocking in 2nd Q on a play where he was also called for illegal formation for not lining up on the line of scrimmage. Also in that quarter, tripped and fell to the ground while trying to release out to a linebacker in run blocking which allowed that linebacker to make the play on Lamar Miller.
     
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  9. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    Yes, thanks...I see it now on the replay it only hit Carroll. He stakes no ground and makes no effort to block.
     
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  10. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    I agree. I am not happy with how poorly Martin played in this game. He was slow off the ball, especially in run plays. He barely slowed Clayborn and McCoy on numerous plays on that long first drive and he and Jerry were directly the reason we failed to score a TD. Go back and watch each of his snaps. Slow off the ball, wasn't staying engaged with either defender, and was beat inside repeatedly.

    #18, RMatthews is also a bad blocker. He was lined up outside Martin and several times it looked like a jailbreak as he and Martin were blowing blocking assignments.

    I have found Martin to be about average in pass protection, but he was bad in both pass and run protection this game. Granted the Bucs were the #1 run defense last season, but he was the reason Thomas and Miller were getting nailed at or behind the line.
     
  11. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Agree... this was his worst game. We had multiple chances to get an opening TD and Martin was a primary reason we did not. Hope he gets back on track.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    When your technique and temperament are consistently poor, you're going to be found out eventually. It's only a matter of snaps and circumstance.
     
  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    But, you said we'll be competing for the chance to pick Clowney, which at this point means 1st overall. So, you're backing off on that little bit of your so called reality?
     
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  14. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    True, but he has been ok up to this point. He wasn't alone... Jerry was bad, but gets a pass this game as it is his first real action all summer. RMatthews wasn't an effective blocker either. Cogs blew at least 1 assignment as well. Lot of stuff that opening drive.
     
  15. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A little late with my thoughts from the game (had a work function from 8am - 3pm, woof.)

    Good:
    - I mean, do we really even need to see Ryan Tannehill next week? Aside from one throw that was slightly behind Gibson, he was on fire. The throw that Gibson dropped in the endzone, that's elite. Not sure how Tannehill even snuck that in. The Clay throw was another really nice throw. My only knock would be that I think that when he does hold the ball, he needs to move - this O-line doesn't hold blocks long enough, yet.
    - Lamar Miller looked really good. It's too bad the run-blocking got bogged down as the first half wore on. I thought he did a nice job in pass-pro, and he had 2 catches. I'm looking forward to what he can do once the line is settled; whether that's John Jerry or Josh Samuda (don't think it's going to be Lance Louis at this point).
    - Mike Wallace & Brian Hartline, keep it up. 'Nuff said.
    - Mike Pouncey is a top 5 C in the game right now. Just shows you how good Gerald McCoy can be when he wants to be; but Pouncey is phenomenal at getting in front of runners (see Miller's 20+ yard run).
    - The defense looks ready to play. I thought they were pretty vanilla with what they showed on 1st and 2nd downs last night and they still stuffed Tampa (granted, Dough Martin wasn't out there). On 3rd downs though, those were some creative blitzes. I thought Soliai and Odrick played very well, with Starks and Vernon not far behind.
    - Dannell Ellerbe is very good.
    - Jamar Taylor, thanks for not letting me down, nice game.
    - Kelcie McCray might have saved himself from the "Turk".
    - Caleb Sturgis appears ready for the big-time.

    Bad:
    - The run-blocking in general needs work, and the 2nd team O-line is going to be an issue if we have to count on guys like Samuda, Thomas, and Garner regularly.
    - Nolan Carroll, what were you doing on that 1st punt return that was fumbled?
    - Marcus Thigpen still fumbled the 2nd return, but had a nice return later on. He's safe.
    - Bumphis? Bumphis? I hope he too is safe, but we haven't seen or heard from him since the J'ville game.
    - It's too bad Dion Jordan has suffered a setback; not knocking him, but our 3rd Down Defense would be downright scary with him on the field. Here's to hoping he makes it back.
    - LB depth = ?. How good is it? Who is it? As of right now, I'd probably go with Trusnik and Jenkins, and then 2 of 3 between Spitler, Robinson, and Kaddu. Or maybe just 1 of them and see what shakes loose from the final cuts.
    - To quote Mike Sherman from Hard Knocks last year: "Charles? Where's Charles? Pick your $h!t up, that wasn't good enough!" I like Charles Clay, but there's got to be more consistency from him. I thought Dion Sims looked alright.

    Questionable:
    - Red-zone play-calling?
    - To quote Sherman again: "Michael Egnew, where are you?" That's it though. Hopefully he stands out against New Orleans.
    - If the staff is intent on keeping one over the other between Jonas Gray and Mike Gillislee, I'm not sure who to pick. Another two that need to stand out against the Saints.
    - I still don't understand Dallas Thomas at T. Hopefully it's only because Nate Garner is injured...
    - I'm not sure what to make of Evan Rodriguez...he's okay...but you still want to see more, IMO. Jorvorskie Lane certainly didn't do anything to help his own case last night.
    - Jonathan Martin for the 2nd straight week gave up on a block too early IMO. I'd be he gets called for not being on the LOS at least 2 times during the regular season. He's been cheating it all preseason; he's bound to get caught again.

    Not sure I'll be able to see the game Thursday night. The HS team I'm coaching is playing their season opener on Thursday Night at UC's stadium, so I'll be there. Wish us luck - we'll need it!
     
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  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Ryan Tannehill was superb in the game. His decision making was coming at blinding speed. Last week he sped up his decision making significantly by going 14 of 19 plays where he made his decision with the ball and had it out in under 2.5 seconds. This week it was even faster, 23 of 29 plays out in under 2.5 seconds with an average total of 2.2 seconds. I saw plays where he proceeded through his rhythm reads and got all the way to the check down to an outlet receiver option, and the ball still got out of his hands in 2.4 or 2.5 seconds. That's how in rhythm he was after the snap. And his accuracy fitting the football into tight windows was remarkable, especially on some of these quick throws.

    I think the Dolphins have made an adjustment by going to more shotgun work so that they can get the ball out of his hands on 1-step drop rhythm while not endangering his accuracy by having him drop back from under center and THEN execute such a bang-bang throw. Prior to yesterday I had Tannehill completing only 2 of 8 on passes that came out in about 1.6 seconds or less. Yesterday he completed 5 of 5 on passes that had that kind of quick, bang-bang rhythm.

    It's not necessarily that offensive coordinator call these quick strike plays. I think they're mostly decisions that Ryan Tannehill can make at the line based on the pre-snap read. If he's in the gun more often he's freer to check into these kinds of quick rhythm passes without as much fear of missed connections.

    Anyway going from 2 of 8 on passes thrown in 1.6 seconds and under, to going 5 of 5 on such passes is a clear difference...either something in Tannehill improved, or something in the receivers did, or something about the play designs has changed, or all of the above.
     
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  17. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I saw an uptick in the number of five wide or empty backfield sets. I think that increases the number RT's quick passes. I also think he's trusting Gibson more as Gibson adjusts to working in the slot. Gibson just has a natural ability to quickly get between the DB and the QB and present his numbers to the QB. With the Keller injury, Gibson's importance increased. Although I do think Sims can provide some of that as well if he's given the opportunity.
     
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  18. Patssuck

    Patssuck Well-Known Member

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    Ps- Tannehill hit several Wrs in stride includin Gibson and McNutt.
     
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  19. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I will re-open this thread but 2 things are going to happen....

    1. The insults will stop. This IS the warning. You all know better, quit the BS and use the ignore feature. If you have nothing nice to say, then save it for elsewhere.
    2. If youre going to be over the top negative then you have no right to complain about other peoples opinions defending the Dolphins. Its a Miami Dolphins message board not a general NFL board. Of course an overwhelming majority are going to be optimistic and are not going to want to have their parade rained on by someone. I have had opinions that havent always been popular (which sometimes were right and sometimes not so much) and it doesnt change that the majority still did not like it. You cant expect people to feel youre not trolling when everything you post is negative. And you cant expect everyone (or really anyone) to agree with a sentiment that has us in the top 5 picks when we were an average team last year.
     
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  20. finwin

    finwin Active Member

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    I'm seeing less no FB and RB sets this pre season where last year we got a lot of 2 RB sets. I'd like to see more pump fake, and play action. Especially in the red zone. A pump fake would work great on a "quick strike play" and play action on first and goal as a change up from a straight handoff.
     
  21. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    what do you think of rodriguez performance, i think he showed something in limited opportunity, will be interesting to see, if he makes it
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The down side to Ryan Tannehill speeding up his delivery was the fact that it drilled his YPA down to only a 5.6 average. That will not be acceptable in MOST situations during the NFL season.

    Can we totally blame him for that? No. Mike Wallace dropped a corner route that would have gone for a nice gain, and Charles Clay dropped that post from the seam. Tannehill had a good ball out to both guys and the plays would've driven his YPA upward.

    But the other thing is, and this is something I brought up a lot prior to training camp and preseason, these receivers need to get yards after the catch. They're getting open, but they're making Tannehill do too much of the heavy lifting.

    The combination of Brandon Gibson, Mike Wallace and Brian Hartline have produced only 22 yards after the catch on 20 catches. If that were the regular season I would hurl insults at them for poor effort. Getting open is not enough. You can't make your quarterback shoulder 90% of the workload of the passing game by not running for anything after the catch. You have to produce some of those yards yourself by doing more than just getting open.

    Hopefully, this is just a function of it being preseason and none of the players particularly wanting to run hard after the catch and risk their bodies. But it is the issue that needs to change or else the passing game could go from being a preseason success to a regular season failure.
     
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  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Evan Rodriguez stood out to me twice by what he did after the catch the other night. He showed some ability there and it has me intrigued.
     
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  24. STColeridge

    STColeridge Banned

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    Thanks for telling them to stop insulting me. Its unbecoming. I just want to make it clear, though; I don't expect anyone to agree with me. That was never the issue. The issue is they don't agree with me so they call me names, insult my intelligence, question my profession, and threaten to have me banned. Why? All because i said, based on what i've seen, the Fins are going to be picking in the top ten in the draft. I never argued even once that someone else should agree with the assessment. Its my opinion. Why am I not entitled to voice it in their view? Thanks again for the support. Too many people are far too personal in their attacks.
     
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  25. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I have no problem debating someone with a wild opinion. I just get sick of the broken record emo guys who 8/10 posts are just purely harping the negative. Got 3 very obvious guys on ignore for that. Problem is....quoting bypasses ignore.
     
  26. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yeah, this is my issue as well. I have no problems with people talking about the negatives, it's a discussion forum after all and there are negatives to talk about, but the people that do nothing but post or tweet negativity are just the worst. It gets to a point where people are complaining about the most inconsequential stuff because they just can't talk about anything positive. I guess when you're a struggling franchise people are easily frustrated, which I get. I'm tired of losing too, but still.

    7-9 is unacceptable but people act like we are 3-13 year after year with zero talent, and then they turn it around on the rest of us who are positive and talk down to us because we are optimistic. Those people are the absolute worst. That goes both ways though with the people who talk down to the negative crowd, but I find it much worse when others give fans a hard time for being optimistic. We're fans, we SHOULD be optimistic.

    I'm not really talking about anyone here as much as I'm talking about people I encounter on twitter.
     
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  27. 2xBlown

    2xBlown Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill is a bit to blame for this as well though. He doesn't always throw a pass that allows for YAC. His accuracy is decent, but its not at the level where he can really lead guys and put it in a spot that will allow them not to break stride. Too often I find the receivers having to reach back. That either makes them lose their balance or slows them down enough for the defense to swarm.
     
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  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    More like first you incorrectly said Tannehill hadn't hit a receiver in stride all night, and then based on that incorrect statement you said it is going to be a long season, but the good news is we'll have a chance of drafting Clowney, i.e. the #1 overall pick. At the point you posted that, Tannehill had already hit McNutt and Gibson in stride, which you refused to acknowledge when multiple posters called you on it.
     
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  29. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    I will just use the ignore feature. Never used it before, ever on anyone. Says it all really.
     
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  30. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!
    ^It works well.
     
  31. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    What works well??












    J/k FanMarino :tongue2:
     
  32. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Hehe. Nice one.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I disagree with ball placement being a major source of the problem on run after catch this preseason. I think ball placement has played into several "drops" and incomplete passes, but of the passes that have been caught I don't think ball placement has been nearly as big a factor as the receivers not keeping their feet after the catch (or in some cases, during the catch) and/or not being able to juke defenders in the open field.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    As for the other subject, I get really disappointed when I see the intolerance on this board toward people just stating their opinions. Yes there are negative posters that see every development as another disappointment, and I often find their twisting of an event to be ridiculous. But there are just as many posters (more, in fact) who blow sunshine up peoples' arses based on every single development, happening or headline. I disagree with Boik14's assessment that there should be unequal treatment of the two types of posters.
     
  35. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    There is a difference between stating an honest opinion and openly baiting people with an opinion or statement aimed at drawing ire or being combative. It is also not unwelcome for anyone to admit when they are wrong in a matter instead of introducing other elements or changing the argument to deflect from the original conversation.
     
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  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    There's also a difference between stating an opinion and making misstatements of fact. If I were to say that Mike Wallace hasn't made a play all preseason, then somebody (or everybody) should call me out for making an idiotic and inaccurate statement. If I were to compound that by then using that inaccurate statement as a basis for predicting a horrible record then I'm obviously going to draw ire. As I went through this thread on game day, that's what I saw happening. Everybody was watching RT play a great game. It was obvious, but one poster was stating the opposite and then predicting doom b/c of it. To make it worse it wasn't just one posts but repetitive posts that were then defended by irrelevant credentials and defensive posturing.

    This is actually a very common aspect of human nature. Multiple studies has proven that pessimists tend to be far worse predictors than optimists. Pessimists tend to focus on one or few negative facts and ignore every positive fact. Optimists tend to consider both positive and negative facts. So naturally the people who are considering all the facts tend to be more accurate predictors.
     
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  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Except there really aren't all that many eternal optimists and the ones that are barely post.

    The problem with the handful of hatemongers on this board is that they don't bring any facts.
     
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  38. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, the eternal optimists (as you put it), which I'll define as those that only see the positive facts and ignore the negative facts, are shouted down just as quickly, if not more so, than the pessimists. I think that in general those who only see one side or ignore half of the facts draw arguments. I would think that if you find that you're constantly drawing arguments on a subject then you should probably consider the possibility that you're missing part of the picture.
     
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  39. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I'm admittedly one of the biggest homers there are, but that doesn't stop me from calling a spade a spade. I'm an eternal believer in my team but I also don't act like there aren't any negatives.

    But in general my posts are very optimistic because that's just the kind of fan I am. Doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the trouble though.

    I agree with CK to an extent. Every fan should have a right to voice their opinion, but naturally the people who are negative in a constant matter will turn others off.
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The other thing too, is that hatemongers also mis-characterize the optimist as anyone who doesn't agree with them. Last year, I was considered a ridiculous optimist even though I predicted 8-8.

    I mean no one seriously predicted 13-3 last year but a number of people were predicting 3-13.
     

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