Pass rushers are largely considered among the most important defensive players and as such are generally drafted much higher. As for ZT being remembered, I would love that to be true, but I think you're looking at it through Dolphin-colored glasses. I think ZT might make the HOF, but it's far from a sure thing. IMO he undoubtedly deserves it, but his limited national profile will be a hindrance.
Pretty much this. Sadly. I've seen many people talk about Zach Thomas deserving the "Hall of very good" but highly questionable for the HOF. Zach does lack a national profile, in large part because he played on bad teams that didn't make the playoffs and didn't win a championship. Miami didn't make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs, unfortunately. Ray Lewis played in 21 playoff games, won 2 SB. Urlacher played in 7 playoff games w/ 1 SB appearance. Zach played in 8 playoff games. One key difference is that Zach's playoff appearances were from 1997-2001. That's a LONG stretch to be out of the spotlight, despite dominating as a player. Ray Lewis is a lock for the hall of fame. In part because he was a great player but also longevity. Ray Lewis played 17 seasons, which is highly unusual for a LB. As a result, he put up 17 years worth of numbers compared to Zach. In the same span they played together, they were very similar though. The REAL question to me regarding Zach Thomas and the Hall of Fame is, does Brian Urlacher get in? Zach and Urlacher both played almost the same number of games in their career and share very similar career numbers. Zach was more a terminator, with tackles as his primary claim to fame. Forced a lot of fumbles too. Urlacher was more dominate in coverage. He got after the QB a better too. Not a tackle machine like Zach, but very solid in that area. Arguably more dynamic. Pro Football Reference has Zach Thomas with a 153 career AV (approximate value). And a weighted AV of 119 (ranked 34th all-time). Urlacher had a 150 AV with a 118 weighted AV (37th all time). According to PFR, from a statistical standpoint, Zach's career is "very similar" to Jack Ham (Hall of Fame), Jack Lambert (Hall of Fame), Jr. Seau (HOF), Derrick Thomas (Hall of Fame), Lawrence Taylor (HOF), Mike Singletary (HOF). In addition, Brian Urlacher (borderline HOF). He's in hall of fame company, for sure... And if you look at Ray Lewis, his career is very similar to many of the same guys. Also listed as a player whom Ray Lewis had a very similar career? Zach Thomas. In fact, every year of Ray's career, Zach is listed as being a "very similar" player to Ray Lewis. Not surprising. Here's Zach Thomas vs. Lewis vs. Urlacher, through the first 11 years of his career. Zach Thomas Starts: 163 Solo Tackles: 933 Assisted Tackles: 588 Sacks: 18.5 INT: 17 Passes Defensed: 33 Forced Fumbles: 16 Fumbles Recovered: 7 Total TD: 4 Ray Lewis Starts: 147 Solo Tackles: 1082 Assisted Tackles: 311 Sacks: 28 INT: 23 Passes Defensed: 43 Forced Fumbles: 8 Fumbles Recovered: 12 Total TD: 1 Brian Urlacher Starts: 152 Solo Tackles: 903 Assisted Tackles: 281 Sacks: 41 INT: 18 Passes Defensed: 72 Forced Fumbles: 9 Fumbles Recovered: 11 Total TD: 2 For a decade, these three guys were all pretty equal. You could make an argument for any one of them being the best LB in the game over a period of about a decade. Sadly, Zach didn't have the longevity of Ray Lewis and didn't have the same team success. Even still, Zach's career is statistically HOF worthy. Whether or not that ever gets recognized, I don't know. It would be a shame if it wasn't, IMO. Such a great story. He's the Tom Brady of LB's. An afterthought. 5th round draft pick. Too small. Too slow. Special teams guy. A decade of brilliance from the word go. edit: Outside of Ray Lewis, any other LB's in the upcoming years a candidate for the HOF? I'm wondering if Ray gets in first and then guys like Zach get their turn.
I do not know how limited is profile was or how he will be remembered. However he was a 7x pro bowler, 5x 1st team all-pro and 2x 2nd team all pro. Those are pretty good national recognition. Dan Marino was a 3x 1st team all-pro. The only thing I see keeping Zach out of the hall of fame is the fact that Ray Lewis played during the same time and was better. A lot of people knock players for not being the best at their position at the time. However, Tim Brown made the Hall of Fame. I think Zach has a good shot.
The Pro Football Hall of Fame had him on the 2nd team, 2000's all decade team too (Lewis and Urlacher 1st team). So they at least recognized him in a major way. I do agree that some guys are knocked for not being the best at their position during their era, but outside of longevity, Zach was ever bit as good as Ray Lewis from the time they were drafted for a decade and change later. They were different players w/different strengths and weaknesses, but both were just as productive as one another. Ray Lewis just had freakish longevity and a higher profile. Anyone know how close or far Zach came for the Hall in 2014 and 2015?
Are you for real? You did get to watch Taylor for his whole career, right? Taylor was much more dominating than Wake as he could drop back in coverage and play the run well also....but why would we compare a DT with a DE....2 different sizes and skill sets...plus Jason Taylor gave the fans everything that he had, and I can't wait to see Suh do the same now..I know that you just got caught up in all the excitement. Oh, and injury prone??? What in the world are you talking about? And yes, JT Struck fear into opposing QB's......our most dominating Sack master ever and that takes a lot for me to say that as a HUGE fan of Both Bill Stanfill and Vern den Herder.
We starting this over again? It's just my opinion dude, but yeah IMO "legend" refers to who is going to be remembered as a more special player, and I definitely think that: 1) Suh's style of play (which I think strikes a lot more fear in opponents), 2) how integral he is to a good/great defense (I personally think he's far more integral to Detroit's defense than JT was to ours), 3) the general perception that Suh realistically could end up being one of the greatest DT's ever whereas the general perception in the NFL is that JT is more like top 20 DE rather than top 5, will make him far easier to remember as a special player than JT for the average NFL fan (NOT just Dolphin fans). And easier to remember as the more special player is the key.. that's what "legend" refers to. You guys disagree, that's fine. But seriously, the great majority of the critiques I've received in thread are due to lack of reading comprehension and I really don't appreciate that. I never said JT wasn't great, that he didn't dominate, etc.. I said he didn't do it like Suh does. And I never said he was injury prone. I said Suh was NOT injury prone. geez.. Maybe in several years we'll see if enough of you change your minds because I really think Suh is going to be remembered even among Dolphin fans as the greatest defensive player we've ever had (JT included). And if I'm wrong? So what.. it's just an opinion anyway.
