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Stephen Ross donates $200 million to Michigan

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Clark Kent, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Yep. I'm a licensed CPA. feel free to PM me and I'll send you my info. That goes for anyone else that needs help. I'll always give a discount to any Dolfan :lol: My website is also on my twitter write up if anyone follows me there :shifty:
     
  2. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    CK, I usually agree with most of what you have to say on these boards, but in this instance you seem to be crucifying me and others for not being specific on tax laws while being equally simplistic on your end in comparing the renovation costs with a donation. You're right, I'm no accountant but for the purposes of this discussion I don't think there's anything wrong with saying - "there's some tax implications here that make it not as cut and dry as you're painting it."

    That being said, I equally appreciate the insight Paul added.
     
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  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I was including myself in the uneducated masses about the tax laws. We're all bumping out heads in the dark on that subject and Paul actually had some light to shed and I was grateful for it.
     
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  4. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    To me, Ross can do whatever he wants to with his $$$. And the long-standing precedent has been set in the NFL for the community to foot a good portion of stadium-improvement costs, whether you agree w/ this concept or not (I don't necessary, but that's what has happened in most cities). You really can't blame Ross for attempting to go halvsies with the SoFla community.

    Also, someone mentioned that the donation was a waste unless it went to tuition relief. Well, it appears some of it is:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/04/stephen-ross-university-of-michigan-donation_n_3865309.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

     
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Its so weird thinking of you as an expert in something. This must be similar to what it would be like if I found out goat terds were sentient.
     
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  6. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    And for what it's worth, donating to the University of Michigan - a GREAT academic school - is a worthy cause. At my old employer, one of my authors was an Ohio St. professor, and even he told me this was obvious in their circles (you see, Ohio St. isn't exactly a great academic school).

    This donation will improve people's lives, and - maybe - lead to better business practices in this country, which will help the citizenry as a whole. Not a bad thing for Mr. Ross to do.
     
  7. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Half is going to the athletic department though, which is fine, but they don't really need it.
     
  8. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    You see, he knows they produced Chad Henne .... which means, they need to do better, hence, the donation.
     
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  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd bet the deal for Miami is still on the table, so the only problem I see is whether or not he should invest his and Miami's money into sun life..

    If there is a way to get a new stadium that that would be the right way, but that's not gonna happen, who are we kidding, Miami better take the deal when the get the next chance.
     
  10. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Without the state changing the law, there is no deal for Miami to take. The whole thing was contingent on the legislature allowing the tourist tax to be raised to 7%. until that happens there isn't anything to discuss
     
  11. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Hallelujer SJ. I'm tired of all of the, "with the money the Dolphins spent this offseason, they better bla bla bla!" EVERY freaking team spends the money they can for salary, just because we lumped some contracts this year does NOT mean all of that money will be spent going forward...even if it is, SO WHAT...everybody does it...if we didn't, we'd be called the scrooges of the league.

    Lame argument imo.

    EDIT: Completely off-topic, but proud papa moment I wanted to share...my son just walked in the house with a brand new Dan Marino aqua jersey...I feel a tear welling...
     
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  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Congratulations.

    And I'm right there with you. Every owner has to spend money on players. Every single one. There's a cap and a floor and not a ton of wiggle room in between them. I feel like some people need to be hit in the head with a tack hammer when they keep arguing this with me on twitter.

    The only intelligent rotort I've seen about this was actually from Omar who said plenty of owners don't spend up to the cap. And that's true. Miami has that ability to skimp on that extra $12 million or thereabouts. It's so magnanimous of Steven Ross to choose not to do that.

    Wait...we're $22 million under the 2013 salary cap, you say?

    Oops.

    Oh but when you point THAT out to people you get in reply a bunch of nonsense about Dawn "Littlefinger" Aponte creating all that cap room magically out of thin air with her fascinating alchemical accounting skills which evidently can produce cap space like water out of a well.

    But in their defense, sometimes it's fun not to use our brains. Weeeeeeeeeee!!
     
  13. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    I don't have a big issue with this. I don't think there is anything more rewarding than donating money to a school to help out students. When it comes to the stadium, it's all about money and making a profit. Helping a college is more like being a non-profit, even though I am sure he can write it off on his taxes. I am sure $200 million is probably less than 10% of his net worth, and eventually he will probably sell the team for a billion dollars or more. I just hope the team will always be in South Florida, but a lot of this may depend on the Florida legislature and the fans.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm just going to go back to my original point here. The man can do whatever he wants with his money. I really could care less. I don't live in Miami.

    All I will say though is this. Giving $200 million in order to do a "public good" like spending $100 million on the University Michigan Business School and another $100 million on the University of Michigan Athletics program, makes it DIFFICULT to turn around and say to the city of Miami that they need to pay $200 million to him in order to finance stadium upgrades because those upgrades will be serving a "public good" and therefore he needs to be compensated for that.

    That's what this is about. Credibility. He weakened his claim to the "public good" angle when it comes to financing the stadium upgrades, and he gave a pretty strong indication that he cares a lot more about doing some good for the University of Michigan than doing some good for the city of Miami's economy.
     
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  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Awsi Dooger had a great post about this on another board (as usual).

    Steve Ross just gave his enemies in the public funding battle a big piece of ammunition. That's what I think this boils down to.
     
  16. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    I hear you, but there are many billionaires, like Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and others, who are making pledges to give away most of their money to charities, instead of just leaving it to their families. I don't think Buffet is leaving more than a million dollars to his kids. Me personally, I would not give ONE nickle to the City of Miami after all of the corruption that has taken place in Miami the last couple decades. Maybe if the mayors / city managers hadn't siphoned off public funds and/or pocketed the money, I would feel differently?
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Awsi is the other guy that has as much conviction about the detriments of the sun life relative to wins and losses as I, how does he finish his point?, I believe he doesn't want to pour money into the sh&$hole, but I don't know if he has any positive thoughts on what it will take to get a new one?
     
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm not really positive what you're getting at with respect to the wealthy people giving all their money to charity before they die.

    As for not giving a nickel to the city, I would say that if he were to pay for his own stadium upgrades, he wouldn't be. None of that is going into any city treasury or anything that like. All he would be doing is building stadium upgrades, which increases his revenue stream long term, increases the value of his franchise long term, while at the same time boosting the local economy by inducing large events (like the Super Bowl, soccer, etc) to come to Miami which draws tourists who tend to spend money when they come to town. Not a cent of his would be lining any corrupt politicians' pockets.

    I'm really not taking a stand either way on whether the public should or should not finance him. I'm saying that he just made it clear that he's a lot more interested in doing a solid for the University of Michigan than he is for the local economy his football team plays in. If he's going to do a "public good" for the city of Miami, he demands to be compensated for it. If he's going to do a "public good" for the University of Michigan, well shucks he'll just donate the amount and write it off his taxes.
     
  19. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    $313M all total so far to Michigan....yeah, no public funding eva for this dude.
     
  20. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    Good for Ross. It's his money, so why did this get to be a subject in the Miami Dolphins forum?
    No need to answer, Shhhhh.
     
  21. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    We could give him free money for extra luxury boxes and another 15 rows of seats. Out of the kindness of our collective heart.
     
  22. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I don't think most people have any problem with Ross donating any amount of money to water cause he wants too. It is his money and he is free to do with it anything he wants.

    I think many of us just question why a man that is worth over 4 billion dollars, expects any tax money to be spent to improve HIS privately owned stadium. Jerry Jones is worth just a little over 2 billion dollars and he built the stadium for the Cowboys with his own money.

    Just because it has been common practice in many cities that the public help pay for NFL stadiums. This doesn't mean this type of public funding has to continue. Tax money today isn't as readily available as it was in the past. Communities are cutting back on spending for schools, police, fire personnel, and various other areas of public funding. NFL owners are in the top 1% of the richest men in the entire world. They get hundreds of millions of dollars a year from television networks and from the sale of tickets and parking for games.

    I think it is time every community says no more to these owners in regards to receiving taxpayer money for their private business. If these owners don't want to build or improve the stadiums for their team, sell it to someone who will be willing to build the stadium.

    If another community wants to waste their tax payer money on building a new stadium for the Dolphins, more power to them. I will certainly miss watching the Dolphins play during the season, but I don't think the South Florida area should be held hostage to the NFL, basically demanding that improvements to the stadium be made or else no future SB's will return to this area. Ross has also stated that he can't be sure what the next owner will do if the stadium isn't improved. Maybe the next owner will decide to do the right thing and pay for these improvements himself. Just as Ross should do right now, as the owner of the Dolphins.

    I would also like to add that I have been attending games at Sun Life Stadium since it was built. I have absolutely no problems with the stadium as it is right now. It may have a few minor problems, but it is far better today than the stadium is in New Orleans and the SB was played in New Orleans in 2013.
     
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Jerry Jones received a lot of subsidies to build his stadium. Flat out wrong to suggest he paid for it himself.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
     
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  24. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy Club Member

    I don't understand why you believe that Ross would profit more by making a capital investment in the stadium than doing what he is. He's not using a ouija board to make his decisions. I'm sure he's done his due diligence.
     
  25. daniel3

    daniel3 Active Member

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    Jerry Jones doesn't even own the stadium, he's a leased tenant. I think Ross is the only owner that fully owns his stadium. There really are no other examples of an nfl stadium like the one in Miami, where the city doesn't pay a dime towards it and only collects massive property taxes.

    Also the reason why stadiums are typically partially publicly funded, is they normally act as venues that bring major sports events (and subsequently money) to the local area.
     
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  26. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    With Ross actually owning the venue, I would assume he would get a % from that separately from the team owner aspect.
     
  27. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy Club Member

    You haven't been paying attention. He gets nothing extra unless he's invested in a food service business.
     
  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How does one benefit him personally? Perhaps in an altruistic way, but not financially.

    I hate it when I hear someone say, "oh he's doing it for the tax deductions/benefit." Not you Stringer, but in general.

    Giving away $1 to get a 42% tax deduction is not a benefit. It's a loss. Of 60% or more. There is no benefit except making him feel good about himself. On top of that, with a 50% cap on charitable deductions/AGI, we're talking $400 million in AGI for this year for him to take all of that. I doubt very much he realizes that much income a year. I believe there is a 5 year carryforward. But still.

    Also, without knowing how he would structure the stadium investment don't be so sure he's not getting the same tax benefit, just over a longer period of time. Also, is the stadium and the team two separate entities? There are issues of increased basis, depreciation, etc. etc. Ross is a billionaire, self-made from real estate. He's got the experts in place to maximize tax benefits from either transaction.
     
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  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Could you respond to this statement Stringer..

    "Making the gestures even more selfless for Ross is the reality that his willingness to give away so much money will make it no easier to obtain partial taxpayer funding for proposed upgrades to the football stadium he owns. While Ross likely hopes that those who would oppose a public contribution will see him as a benevolent billionaire who deserves outside funding, the more likely reaction will be, “If you can afford to give it away, you can afford to pay for your own stadium upgrades.”

    There’s really no good response to that, and it will be impossible to reverse the impression that taxpayers and politicians aren’t simply subsidizing a billionaire — they’re subsidizing a billionaire’s charitable giving."

    End quote..


    I've never heard him say he couldn't afford it to fully fund the project, my interpretation was the city of mami is the only city that doesn't have to pay property tax in the NFL, because Ross owns the stadium, so if he's going to renovate this stadium state of the art, he's going to put the majority down, and have the plan and gurantee that any money lended would be paid back, because that was the right way to do this business deal?

    Do you agree with those business ethics in this situation.?
     
  30. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You have to factor in time value of money on that, so the $70mm spread over 15 years is much less than $80mm in 1-5, assuming he could use up all $200 in five. Which I'm sure he can, by realizing some gains in year 5 if it's looking like his regular AGI isn't going to soak it all up. But then it could better to go ahead and realize those gains in year 1 (time value of money again).

    Not a licensed CPA but former tax/estate/investment/benefits/finance planner for $1m - 100m AGI'ers and tax preparer for them at the end of the year. But it's been a few years so specifics are hazy :D

    What is everyone using these days? We used Lacerte (preparation) and BNA for tax planning.
     
  31. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Or allow the stadium to fall into disrepair and then demand a new one, or worse, move them. For the 1st time, I am believing the tin-foil hatters on that one.
     
  32. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Yep. Still using Lacerte. They also do tax planning as part of their software now.

    Time value of money is not what it used to be thanks to the minimal interest rates.

    You are correct about the five year limits for carryovers of the donation. Wouldnt be surprised if the donation is structured to get around that. Not payable in one year. Or tied to his estate with some fancy trust structure. Of course if he sells the team and that is hitting him the same way as the donation (corporate entity?) that could be the offset.
     
  33. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They added tax planning? Smart. All the info is already in there. BNA was ugly and cumbersome anyway back when I used it.

    TVOM is still significant over 15 years. Yeah not a big deal either way for a billionaire but trust me a lot of these billionaires still clip coupons :D They've hired the smartest people in the room.

    True about the donation. For all we know it could be spread out over 20 years, with a rolling 5 year carryforward for each year.
     
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  34. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I kept looking for this tweet as soon as I found out about the $100 million he's giving to the Michigan Athletics program for upgrades. Someone posted it a week ago. I thought it was apropos.

    https://twitter.com/chadrucks1976/status/372008962738384896/photo/1

    [​IMG]

    Can see the headline now: "Steve Ross Gives Michigan Football Nine Figures, Gives Dolphins Duct Tape"
     
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  36. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    It's Ross' personal money, the people of Miami don't buy enough tickets to support any long term investment in an aging stadium. If I were Ross, I would be thinking let some of those who benefit financially from events like the SB and college bowl games, the hotels, restaurants, vendors, all kick in a reasonable share.

    Look, this is just my opinion, but this area fails to support the Miami Dolphins by buying tickets in any faithful manner. Ross made a very reasonable offer to pony up more than half the cost of upgrading thr stadium, I suspect the NFL doesn't want Ross to set a bad precedent by paying for the whole project.

    What Ross chooses to do in donating millions of his fortune to charitable causes is nobody's business but his. He certainly hasn't locked up the checkbook in free agency and has shown a commitment to Miami to bring a winning team to this city. What exactly have Miami and its citizens given in return? Squat.

    Would I like for Ross to pony up the full cost of upgrading the stadium? Of course. Do I think Miami and the fans have stepped up and offered a fair share here? Hell no! Nobody wants to help bake the cake, but if it gets done, those same people will be licking their chops to get at the increase in revenue that a SB and other world class events that might be held at the stadium.

    Lets get real here folks.
     
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  37. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I would like to add that the duct tape is also a write off. :wink2:
     
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  38. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there

    Please...So you think the grounds people did that or maybe a fan brought in duct tape to the game? :notfunny:
    Could have been any venue with orange seats. The concrete looks kinda moldy too. They better clean that before the Falcons game.:lol:
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pretty much end thread for me.
     
  40. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Sounds like a good comparison on the surface.

    Unfortunately, it's apples and oranges. Two completely different things. Plus, he wasn't just looking for money without also making a big contribution to the Stadium himself. And, it's not like he hasn't put money into the Dolphins already (in the form of billions).

    A charitable donation to his alma mater is simply a very different thing.
     

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