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Stay with Osweiler

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan40, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. The Guy

    The Guy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What I meant was the QB's contribution by himself. The average expected finish in the league is 8-8, and the typical play of both Tannehill and Osweiler -- by themselves (without considering other aspects of a team) -- doesn't make a team appreciably better than 8-8.

    As an aside, speaking of the defense, the team pulled off a minor miracle today, considering that it surrendered an opposing passer rating of 122.5. There have been 123 games since 2012 in which a defense surrendered an opposing passer rating between 119 and 125. Those defenses won 20 of those 123 games (16%).

    In 14 of those 20 wins, the defense's own team had a passer rating above that of the Dolphins today (94.9, which is about average and therefore expected). So there was over a 95% chance the Dolphins would lose today's game, based primarily on the defensive performance.

    The good news is that Cam Wake and Bobby McCain were out, who are obviously key cogs in the pass defense.
     
  2. Dolphins1372

    Dolphins1372 Guest

    if brock had tannys arm strength. We would have a good qb. Tannehill just chokes to much for me. The command of the offense brock showed. Tannehill dosnt have it. I loved tannehill. But when the game goes bad. He goes worse. Never bails us out. We came back from 21-7. Never happens with tanny back there. He would tried too hard and make dumb mistakes. It’s what he does.
     
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  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Was he really a 122.5? Damn! We did drop a few interceptions though (on top of causing 3 turnovers already). Jones had the mid-air collision on the easy pick, Fitz had one bounce through his hands because he wasn't looking, etc. I wouldn't have guessed either QB was above 85 QBR on the day.

    Here's what doesn't fit your stats though- how many of those 123 teams forced multiple turnovers at the one yard line? That's what makes us unique. The closer the opponent gets to the end zone, the more our weaknesses are masked by the safeties. Just those two turnovers alone have to be some type of record....I'm not a stat guy though so I wouldn't know.

    The Bears should have scored an extra 17 though and we should have had an extra 7...it should have been at least a 45-38 ballgame without all the turnovers from two good defenses.
     
  4. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    I see it differently.

    I see 2 QB's that coordinate well with each other. They each have a slightly different skill set than the other which our team can use to it's advantage. Both have plenty of self assurance. There are a lot of teams in this league that would like either one of our guys and we've got both of them and aren't breaking the bank at their pay levels. On top of all that they both understand Gase's system pretty well.

    I'm sure they both want to be starters, but you can say that about the players at any position on any NFL team. That's kind of attitude is how they got here. If you are looking for a lot of emotion from players you can turn to the Hallmark channel. I don't care about external presentation of emotions. To me it means somebody is losing self control and that is poison to a team effort.
     
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  5. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I love what he did for us today! Dude straight up pulled a Nick Foles. That was the best game I have ever witnessed him play and he played a lot during that run with the Broncos, but it was their defense that got them to the Super Bowl that year. Osweiler has proven to be a capable quarterback in the past, but this was absolutely great as far as setting the mind at ease for me personally. I wouldn't get too crazy about this though. He's not a player that can be relied upon on a weekly basis although stranger things have happened over the years. I remember Vinny Testeverde being an average quarterback for what was supposed to be the prime of his career. He was actually considered a bust at one point, he bounced around the league for a bit and then suddenly at like age 33 or 34 dude became a bona fide starter in the league and had the Jets in the playoffs. We've seen things like this happen before with backup QB's that we thought were dead weight so it's not out of the realm of possibilty that we suddenly catch lightening in a bottle with Brock Osweiler. Kelly Holcomb was actually the last quarterback to lead the Browns to the playoffs. He too was a career backup that many thought was a terrible player in Indianapolis. Granted...He didn't do anything afterwards, but he did have the city of Cleveland buzzing after that year. Jeff Hostettler, Rich Gannon, Steve Bono, Bobby Herbert, Kurt Warner for crying out loud. These are all QB's that found success later on in their careers that many thought were lost causes at the position. Keep in mind that quarterbacks have a long shelf life. In all reality the same thing could happen with Tannehill at some point in his career.

    Now i'm not saying that ANYTHING at all is brewing with this situation, but the kettle is ready. If you ask me who the starter should be next week i'm going to tell you Ryan Tannehill. However....If that shoulder isn't healed by next week and Osweiler wins us another game i'm going to start to believe. The very minute Tannehill plays like *** or can't generate points on offense i'm going to start to wonder what Osweiler can do us instead. In other words, We don't have a controversy just yet, but that could change after next week depending on how things go. If Tannehill plays next week, it's going to be quite possibly the biggest game of his career to date because the tides are clearly changing in Miami. WE ARE going to go in a different direction after this season is he can't pull his head out of his ***.
     
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  6. mbsinmisc

    mbsinmisc Season Ticket Holder

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    Is this true?
     
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  7. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Highly doubtful
     
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  8. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    Did most people even watch the game today, or are just going based on what they are seeing in the stat sheets? I am genuinely curious
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I’ve watched twice already
     
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  10. TheOne

    TheOne Active Member

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    I say with stick with Ryan but I do believe on draft day 2012 I remember Todd McShay saying that Oswelier had a hire ceiling then any QB taken in the first round but also had the best shot at being a bust. Not that that means any thing.
     
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  11. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    You can't dump a healthy Tannehill without that making a statement that you're done with him permanently. I don't see anyway the Dolphins are going to do that, I doubt they believe they need to do that. So no, you don't start Brock over Ryan unless Ryan isn't healthy.

    This is simply the matter of our starting QB and our backup doing their jobs. I'm glad that Osweiler did a decent job yesterday. If he has to keep playing then I hope he keeps it up and improves.

    Lastly, remember Moore. We'd see these flashes of good games from him when he had to step in at the last minute, but he couldn't keep it up. Osweiler's the backup for a reason. We'll be worse off with him at starter over the long run.
     
  12. The Guy

    The Guy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you probably put your finger on the rare event that was responsible for overcoming all of that improbability: forcing multiple turnovers deep in your own territory.
     
  13. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    There's no competition though. And you should buy what Key wrote because he's absolutely correct. Did you watch the KC/Pats game last night? Brady throws some horrible balls when his WR aren't open and he does it a lot. Of course he throws some nice ones too...he is an NFL QB with 19 years of experience in the league. And it seems that Brady is strip-sacked every other game and yet his TEAM always rally's and picks up the slack for him. That's what the Dolphins did yesterday for Brock.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
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  14. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    Yeah, I mentioned his pocket awareness in my first post. Brock definitely feels the pocket better. However, the o-line played fantastic yesterday. Which does point to Brock being better with his anticipation and awareness, IMO.
     
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  15. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    He’s been throwing a lot more turds this year, too. His arm just isn’t what it use to be.
     
  16. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    I disagree. I remember when Marino was hurt and Scott Mitchell came in an had a few good games. Some Dolphin's fans were calling for him to replace Marino. Same thing with Brady when Garop came in. A lot of Pats fans wanted Brady to be replaced by Jimmy. Fans are stupid that way.
     
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  17. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    What are your conclusions? Does the offense run better under RT or BO?

    P.S. Sorry, if I missed any thoughts on this. I am just now working through the threads.
     
  18. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    Brock has a lot of experience in Gase's offense. More than RT, in fact.
     
  19. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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  20. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    One thing I will add is that I was really hard on BO during the preseason. Honestly, I was surprised Gase kept him. Happy we won, and happy he played well, but I am amazed at the difference between his play yesterday and what we saw before the season started. Props to BO for working hard to get back on track.
     
  21. Phins_to_Win

    Phins_to_Win Well-Known Member

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    So it was reported(and I have seen a few posters mention it here as well) that the Tannehill injury was during the 3rd game? I'm sure it won't be a popular view, but I honestly didn't feel like I was seeing same old Tannehill these last 2 games. He is normally a very accurate QB who was throwing wildly inaccurate balls the entire 2 games. I'm not willing to defend him for those last 2 games, but IF he was truly injured I do want to see him take the field again when he isn't.
     
  22. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    In reality he didn't play all that well. Winning masks ugly QB play, for the most part. I'm not saying Brock was "ugly", but he was bailed out big time. Yes, he had some great moments, but he wasn't the reason this team won yesterday. And my bet would be if the Dolphins had lost ,everyone would be wishing for RT back and this thread wouldn't even exist. Even if Brock played exactly the same.

    Brock came in, played well enough to NOT make it impossible to win, showed grit, good pocket awareness. But this was a team win...with a sprinkle of luck thrown in for good measure. But I'll take it. :)
     
  23. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    CK has been writing about this on twitter. When he got up from that hit during the Raiders game he was wincing and holding his shoulder. It makes sense.
     
  24. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I remember when Brian Griese came in for Jay Fiedler and won against the Chargers and everyone, me included, was like "Finally we have a real QB!" And then other teams had time to gameplan for him and he sucked every other game. Brock Osweiller is not a good NFL QB. Tannehill isn't great and we need to start trying to replace him, but not with Osweiller.
     
  25. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I hope so, just to read the reaction in the coming weeks.
    It's like none of you has watched BO during his Denver&Houston&Cleveland&Denver time (and in some way, there is some selective memory about yesterday too: the interceptions and a couple of deep throws were just...bad.)
    He is what he is: a bad quaterback that, like almost every qb on an NFL roster, can have the occasional good/great game, but nothing more. And watching his side arm throws is... almost too much, for me.

    I would understand if he was some unknown quantity (like a rookie, like Falk, or without playing time experience, like Petty), but it is quite stablished (by multiple coaching staffs, by the way) what kind of qb he is.

    This is not to say that RT is the answer (on the contrary: for multiple reasons, I think RT time in Miami is at the end one way or the other and, sadly, I start to think that the guy's health is damaged goods) just that having any kind of hope about BO's play is naive
     
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  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought the same thing- he looked rough in pre-season except for that last game. I had no idea what to expect either.
     
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  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here's the thing though- Osweiler was successful in Denver under Gase then he had a bad year in Houston. I'm not making excuses for the guy but he's back with his coach. If something comes of that, so be it. If something doesn't, that's fine as well....we signed him for less than Moore and yesterday's game more than paid for the whole season. It's a very low risk/high reward scenario.
     
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  28. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    He was successful with an all time great defense and for 7 games. He had an 86 passer rating that season with Gase.
     
  29. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's alot to be said for that. Sometimes a QB and a coach/system just click. It's quite possible he's just a better fit for this offense, and gets it better than his time in Houston which was an epic disaster. It's also very likely that yesterday, we just saw the Bears play awful defense on a couple of 3 yard passes that Wilson turned into big plays with epic effort.

    The biggest thing Brock did yesterday was avoid disaster. I don't care about the first INT for various reasons, but the second was brutal. I was shocked to see him escape the pocket when it broke down, and he'd throw the ball away. I can't remember the last time I'd seen Ryan do that. He seems to stand there, hold the ball and almost wait for disaster to strike. Not sure if that's a physical or mental thing with his knee still, or if it's just simply who he is. I'm thinking it's a bit of both, but largely the later because we saw that from him pre-knee injury.
     
  30. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Honestly, as I said, I just hope he keeps starting and we'll see.

    Btw I wouldn't call this numbers "61.8 compl. perc., 1,967yards, 7.15ypa, 10td 6int 86.4rating", playing whith an all time great defense and being sent back to the pine for the corpse of Manning being "successful" under Gase;
    neither I would call what he had in Houston just a "bad year": they gifted the Browns a 2rd pick just to dump him! If it was just a bad year, well it must have been a very very very very bad to push them to gave away the player AND a Pick (did it ever happened before, something like that?)

    Neither I would discount the fact that the guy was cut by the Browns (who had **** at the Qb position and that had no salary cap problem) and let go by the Broncos (that preferred to gave millions of dollars to Keenum instead that cheap dollars to BO).

    But these are just opinions: maybe we'll have the opportunity to watch him and not just speculate about what he could do.

    ps I agree that is kind of no risk scenario, expecially if RT is not 100% healthy

    pps- sorry for my English
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  31. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Brock played pretty damn good. He got the ball out on time, he moved in the pocket well, and got rid of the ball instead of just holding for a sack. With that said, Tannehill is the guy if he is healthy, and I am saying that as someone that is not a Tannehill fan. This is more based on I highly doubt Brock plays like this going forward.
     
  32. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    Dude...your English is better than 90% of the people here. lol
     
  33. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    He played good enough. I agree that he looked pretty comfortable in the pocket and his awareness was great to see.
     
  34. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I got into a lot of arguments here a few years ago for liking Moore over Tannehill, and very few seemed to understand that my argument was based almost solely on leadership and awareness. Matt wasn't super talented but he saw the field great and players were ready to die for him if necessary. That unknown intangible, whatever the heck you'd call it, led to winning some ballgames. It was really just being a great leader though, always cool under pressure and the ultimate teammate.

    For whatever reason, that's the one area Tannehill has always lacked and it just can't be coached. Tannehill is way better than Moore or Osweiler in just about every metric we can throw out there, but he doesn't have that poise that makes other people around you confident. For instance, what Oz said to Drake in overtime and getting his head back in the game.....that's pure leadership and it matters in all professions. RT always seems to be focused on himself though and how he can be perfect, I just don't think he has that natural chemistry with players that a leader needs.

    I'd like to see Brock start a few more games for the exact same reason I wanted Moore- and I know he's not the better quarterback. The game is sometimes bigger than X's and O's though; I'll pick the natural-born leader any day of the week over the guy with never-ending talent. Heck, we had another one last year in Cutler....maybe the best NFL arm ever. But he just couldn't lead and that's the only way you overcome adversity like we've seen the past two weeks.
     
  35. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    You're too kind, thank you very much :bless:
     
  36. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    Brock does so much better than RT not saying he is all elite and what not, his progression are 20 times better than RT his decision making and as Dan said his pocket awareness is better. The one thing i noticed was he did not crumble when the pocket collapsed he stood tall and delivered a strike to wilson, Rt has a problem when the pocket collapsed to lose all site of what he is supposed to do.

    i agree with keyfin while i was watching the morning football shows sunday, and they started talking about RT not playing my first thought was:
    Damn gase really doesnt want RT to look crappy again against the #1 defense after 2 horrible games so they sat him hoping Brock would take the pounding and the heat would be off RT and would be on whatever other smoke screen they could conger up.

    my second thought was, is Gase really believing RT if he says his shoulder hurts, i mean damn i wouldn't want to line up against Mack either but your really scared of someone.

    However this might have backfired in gase face if that in fact is what happened. hoping Brock would fail to save and pamper #17, brocks ability to throw deep and take chances helped this team so much and its really going to be hard to sit him this week even thought i know he will seeing how he left cutler in all year last yr lol.

    On the other hand gase is dumb, why in the world would you give the ball to drake and not gore on the goal line? This was an absolute idiotic move he is lucky it didn't cost us the game.
     
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  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    And was benched for a Peyton Manning whose arm was completely shot
     
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  38. danmarino

    danmarino Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. Club Member

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    :sidelol:
     
  39. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I had to listen to it on the radio, so I watched the highlights this morning. As you and others have been saying, BO looked comfortable in the pocket to me, also. IMO, what we have been seeing lately from RT is just the opposite. Perhaps, the difference is the OL and they finally did their job yesterday. I don't know. Maybe the coaches changed up the protection scheme or maybe it's because they fired Sam Young, but whatever the reason their solid play was why we were even in the game, IMO. I also saw what looked like some well needed urgency along with some different plays with BO under center. You know how it is, the coaches always want to have the plays the QB is most comfortable with, so that may be why. It also didn't hurt that Chicago prepared for what RT likes. As I have said before, maybe RT learns from this and comes back with an increase in passion and urgency. IMO, that **** rubs off and could energize the rest of the guys.
     
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  40. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Long term, that would have been worst case scenario for the rest of the AFCEast. A rare exception to the rule that the fans wanting the backup QB are wrong.

    As for Miami, outside of the 1% chance the light has come on for Brock later in his career, we are left with a guy that may push Tanny to play better and who can come in and win a few games (a solid backup QB in other words).
     

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