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Solar system is 'dented,' not round

Discussion in 'Science & Technology' started by alen1, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/07/02/solarsystem.ap/index.html
     
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  2. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Maybe while their busy changing the solar system again they will restore Pluto back to its rightful planetary status.
     
  3. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    And Ceres too while they are at it
     
  4. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Why are they surprised? They should be ecstatic. They finally have accurate data, rather than their own guesses and assumptions, and... oh, wait, it makes them look bad, because they were wrong.

    Science has become as dogmatic as religion.
     
  5. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Science makes assumptions based on the best data it has at the time -- there is a difference.

    Unlike some religious beliefs, science is not afraid to revise its views when new data is collected.

    It is not fair to take unnecessary pokes at what you don't fully understand, bro. Science if my profession and, while it is not perfect, it strives to be so.
     
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  6. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    It is not ignorant to point out that science has developed its own sacred cows and institutional dogma. There are topics that science has deemed taboo, which is counter to the entire point of having science in the first place.

    The global warming/climate change/whatever they're calling it this week issue says differently. An enormous gulf exists between what science should be and what science in 2008 actually is.

    Sometimes I think Michael Chrichton was right.
     
  7. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    What 'sacred cows'?

    Please enlighten me.

    Again -- you challenge my profession. It's not that you challenge the facts of a discussion but rather all of science with a statement like that. That is not acceptable to me and I won't let it slide this time.
     
  8. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Man-made climate change is most prominent; the pursuit of "consensus" rather than "verifiable data" chiefly. Astrophysicists' tendency to cling to flawed theories is a big one as well; they can't explain certain phenomena, such as the force behind the expansion of the universe, so they simply say that dark matter and dark energy are responsible--oh, and by the way, you can't observe them.

    The point of the scientific method is to discard flawed theories that don't match up with observed data. There is a growing trend now to simply disregard the data that does not fit and continue to endorse the theory.

    I'm not challenging your profession. Science is still a respectable and necessary institution. I'm challenging the attempt of certain scientists to turn their personal theories into monolithic, unchangeable facts without regard for the scientific method. Reference James Hansen for a microcosm of the trend.
     
  9. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

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    They're changing their model based on the new evidence...that doesnt really equate to dogma, especially not on the scale of religion.
     
  10. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    I respect your opinion but in this instance, I don't believe that you justified your earlier statements.

    I am not physicist a so I can't talk about why physicist do what they do other than to say that when you have to extrapolate, you sometimes end up guessing wrong. IMO, that doesn't disqualify it as a science or diminish the facts when they get it right.

    On your second point concerning global warming; There are data that lend support to each idea and both sides have strong advocates and critics. As such, there is no unchallenged belief that is "thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from" --the defination of "dogma".

    When 30,000 scientist rise up in concert to kill the one side you consider the that doesn't "match up with observed data ", disqualifies that side as a "sacred cow".


    Scientists debate data, despite any "consensus". That is the nature of science. The process is even more critical when there exists opposing data.

    The fact is there is a peer review process -- something unknown in dogma. The fact that scientists in your global warming example are willing to mount challenges to the opposing side, doesn't exactly support "monolithic, unchangeable facts without regard for the scientific method".

    The fact many of the 30,000 scientists who are now challenging the idea of man-made global warming were once advocates of the hypothesis, further degrades the notion bolded above.
     
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  11. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    What I find amazing id how we are able to explore the otter edges of our solr system, however many millions of miles away yet we do not have a clue as to the whereabouts of Osama bin Ladin!! :lol:
     

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