If you like mediocre thats what we have in Philbin.If we dont make the playoffs Philbin will be directly responsible because of his mismanagement finishing off games. There is no doubt that the team has improved but take away Philbin from the team and replace him with X I think we could do just as well if not better. Having said that Ross selected Philbin personally and he is likely to give him another year BECAUSE the team has progressed regardless if we make the playoffs or not. A lot of the progress has to do with the improvement of Tannys play. You know what they say.Coaches who have good QBs look like geniuses.
Cam Cameron made coaching decisions. He called plays. He had an offensive scheme he brought to the table an executed. He made personal decisions to develop players. Let me ask you this... When Philbin gets fired, do you think there's any chance he gets his old job or the equivalent back in the NFL anywhere?
Yes, I do. Regardless of your personal opinion he is still well thought of in the league and was before we hired him. Philbin has done all those things. He and the staff he assembled have developed serious talent and you cannot explain that away.
Because Nick Saban was in charge of a LOT more than Joe Philbin, Sparano, and Wannstedt while he was the head coach. I don't know how that's hard to understand. As far as player development goes, in terms of the D-line, that goes to Kacy Rogers (Sparano hire). I'll grant you Mark Duffner improving the linebackers, but Philbin still signed off on George Edwards as the LB coach his first two years. Kevin Coyle is pretty well noted for being somewhat of a renaissance doer with respect to DBs. But I don't know how you can give him credit for that when you've blamed the defense for as many losses as you have this year if I'm not allowed to use the fact that Nick Saban was more involved than Joe Philbin is. At the end of the day, Joe Philbin is at this point a sub-.500 coach with no playoff appearances and no winning seasons. Nick Saban achieved a winning season (with Gus Frerotte & Sage Rosenfels playing QB no less). Tony Sparano achieved a winning season and playoff appearance. Dave Wannstedt achieved multiple winning seasons and multiple playoff appearances. Joe Philbin has done NONE of this.
He has exceeded my expectations so far this season, but I have little confidence if a game comes down to coaching.
As I've been trying to explain to you, your measuring stick is not consistent. You use record to say X coach is better than Philbin, then ignore record to say Saban was better. I don't see any coach we;ve mentioned develop talent better than Philbin and his staff that he hired or retained. You make a point to say that Rodgers was a Sparano hire, but who retained him? (Also, I'd like to point out that the exact same thing happened to Philbin in GB. He was thought well of enough to be kept from the previous staff and promoted actually.) Yes the defense cost us the last 3 losses, doesn't mean that Coyle is horrible or that this staff hasn't developed all of the talent you seem to think was better than the Thomas/Taylor heydays.
Agreed. Cameron can easily coach this same team, and even the one Philbin had the past two seasons to the same records Philbin has recorded or better. Cameron is an actual coach, he has installed offenses on teams that many around the league respect. Ask Drew Brees, Antonio Gates and Ladanian Tomlinson what their opinion of Cameron is. Ask Philip Rivers. Philbin is no where near as innovative as Cameron and will be lucky to get his offensive line coaching gig back.
Yes, I know this. It's on purpose as Nick Saban was far more involved than Joe Philbin. If you want to directly compare their record as head coach of the Miami Dolphins on the same sample size, it's exactly the same, 15-17. Joe Philbin's offense or defense is not what the Miami Dolphins run now or ran when he was first hired. Nick Saban's defense was. Joe Philbin is not a de facto GM in charge of all personnel. Nick Saban was. I think that's pretty fair to say. But if you want to factor all of that out and just go by records, fine, they're the same. At the end of the day though, you're the one going around calling Dave Wannstedt "Wannidiot" when he managed to have more success than Joe Philbin has had...or probably will ever have as coach of the Miami Dolphins. What does that say about Joe Philbin? Again, your term, not mine. I'm only holding up their successes as a coach because you seem to think Joe Philbin is a lot better than them. You've yet to defend your stance on that. If you want to try and continue the mental gymnastics to try and make out like Joe Philbin is some sort of great coach, have at it. If he can win 4 of 5 games down the stretch and get Miami to 10-6, I'll be impressed. I think that's unlikely though. And if Miami misses the playoffs, what does that say for Joe Philbin when Dave Wannstedt and Tony Sparano both guided the team to the playoffs and 11 win seasons (multiple in Wannstedt's case)?
He's well thought of in the sense that he's well-liked, did a good job within his responsibilities(at Green Bay), and has relatively kept his nose clean*. That's probably going to continue to be the case, although it has little to do with his coaching acumen. He's had to replace multiple members of that staff and there's questions about how much Sherman was responsible.
I'm not a Philbin fan, but he's no Cam Cameron. Cam Cameron is trash. Through and through. Cameron's offense and play calling are absolutely potato. It's no coincidence that Flacco and the Ravens offense took off as soon as they canned his ***. He failed to develop the QB and the offensive weapons around him. He makes Mike Sherman look like Bill Belichick. And lets not compare them as "leaders of men." Cam Cameron was a little boy in comparison. Not a single one of his players (in Miami) respected him. They all thought he was a ****ing moron to the nth degree. Joe Philbin is 6-5 in 2014. He has the talent to be 9-2 right now. Arguably better, since we should never have lost to Buffalo. Do you extend him based on the 11 games in 2014? No.
So you acknowledge your measuring stick is inconsistent, then accuse me of mental gymnastics? interesting. I don't even think you realize just how inconsistent you are. You want to tout Saban because he had all this power, but it was the same as Wannidiot. So following your logic based on the measuring stick you've created, that would mean based on record and power level, Wannidiot was a better coach than Saban....but nope, you've declared Saban to be better and you've done so in spite of your measuring stick. Also, what the hell does authority over the GM have to do with coaching prowess anyway? Why does Saban having more power over personnel but having the same record, make him a better coach? If anything, if Philbin had that control, we'd have had Albert last year and likely a better record. Then, you bring all back to record again (contradiction again) with your last paragraph. If Philbin had Wannidiots team in that era, we'd have won more than a playoff game. If Philbin had Sparano's team, we probably wouldn't have went farther, but we wouldn't have fallen as far after. If Philbin had Saban's power I guarantee you he takes Brees. I've made my case, Philbin and the staff he chose have done better developing talent than any coach we've had since JJ. That's the coaches' main and most important job and they do it better than anyone we've had in decades....which is also why for the first time in decades the quality of our play as improved every season he's been here.
He made one clear bad staff hire and that was Sherman (who brought along Turner). That was an easy to understand mistake though and all coaches even Shula have hired bad coordinators. Every other hire has been stellar.
If Philbin had the same talent as Cameron and had to call plays, do you really think the results would be different?
If that's how you want to rationalize what you *think* I've said, fine with me. The bold part though, that's incorrect. The coaches' main job is to get the team to win games. The lack of wins will be the reason Joe Philbin gets fired.
You can probably add Zac Taylor in that list as well. Who was Turner's assistant O-line coach that quit mid-season last year? Mosley?
I didn't "rationalize" anything. Those are your arguments. If they don't work, that's not on me. Qb talent wins more games than talent on any other spot of the team. Talent across the board wins more games than gameday scheming. You have to be good at developing talent top win and we are. Again, you keep acting like the talent on this team was there when Philbin took over. It wasn't and once again, we've IMPROVED our record and more importantly the QUALITY OF THE PLAY on the field, every year he's been here.
None of those guy were horrible decisions. Like it or not, the guys we love as assistants were all HIRED BY PHILBIN. I know that destroys you're narrative........
Barring collapse if they want to allow Philbin to coach the lame duck year on his contract a la Tom Coughlin in 2007 I'm ok with that but I'm not extending him til he brings us a playoff win or two. I believe strongly in continuity in the NFL but you have to prove yourself before warranting that second contract. If he can get us that improvement, then and only then should he be extended IMO.
How many of the assistants fans seem to like were hired to replace someone Philbin originally hired or were retained? Lazor, Duffner, Benton/Bicknell, and Rodgers. Not many head coaches get a chance to re-do their staffs like. Steve Ross has done it twice as owner in his tenure and it's gotten him...?
Who argued that? Yes, you're right improving is ridiculous. We should blow up the team every year, until the perfect coach is hired who does everything 100% correct the first time. 1 year is all he should get to get to what, the AFCCG?
Philbin's offense didn't show any signs of life until he hired Lazor which tells me we don't need Philbin. If Sherman's offense wasn't cutting it Philbin could have taken over like Mike McCarthy but that's the problem. Philbin has no experience taking over a system because he was McCarthy's spell checker. He was a glorified personal assistant in Green Bay. We are here to win championships. Not improve at a snail pace. If we go on a run right now I'll give him the credit. But so far, there isn't much credit to give. He took over a 8-8/7-9 team and if that's were we end up, that's not much progress. 7-9, 7-9, 6-10, 7-9, 8-8. Improving to 9-7 isn't some great achievement. Those other 7-9 teams had Chad Henne and Matt Moore as QBs. Tannehill is playing better than them and we still end up at 8-8/9-6. Big whoopie. That said, I don't mind if they keep him around another year just in case. But one more and no deep playoff run and that's it. He ain't cutting the mustard. He's not going to outmaneuver a Bill Belichick on game day. Not many can, but they get closer than Philbin would.
That is absurd. Truly ridiculous. His goal was to win, not to pump up Luck's numbers. And he did win -- going 12-1 his least year at Stanford, with their only loss to a 12-1 Oregon team whose only loss was by 3 pts in the BCS National Championship game. And they scored 31 pts in that loss to Oregon, so the problem wasn't the offense (they gave up 52). As it was, Luck was still the Heisman runner up. And the following year, with Harbaugh gone, they ran the exact same offense and went 11-2 with Luck again the Heisman runner up. They scored 30 and 38 points in their 2 losses so, again, the offense wasn't the problem. And the two losses were to the 6th ranked team and the 3rd ranked team. It's hard to understand the "incredible luck when picking which team to coach" statement. He took over a Stanford team that was 1-11 the year before and hadn't had a winning record in 5 years. He took over a Niners team that was 6-10 the year before and hadn't had a winning record in 8 years. Those are hardly easy jobs to jump into. I dislike the guy personally but his coaching record is excellent. I guess you don't like a balanced offense. That's fine, I guess. I think it's silly, but we can agree to disagree on that.
I agree, his press conference proclaiming all of us to be idiots because we can't see how truly great (with a capital G...) Kap is was kind of telling. Its like he was standing in the mirror trying to convince himself. And he did sound an awful lot like Sparano.....although Sparano does have Harbaugh in the fist pump area.
That luck plays a major role in your record over a 16 game span? How else do you explain John Harbaugh finishing 8-8 last season? Did he simply become a bad coach all of a sudden?
Mike Smith has a record of 64-43. So I'd like to ask the "record brigade" how many more seasons of 4-12 do you put up with before you realize he's a bad coach?
Haha! Boy, that NFC South is so bad right now. I live in Saints country, and while I did pull for them during their one SB win, I truly, truly loathe the team. Maybe not so much the team, but the fans. They are just too much. Maybe it's because when I was a kid, they were the "Aints", and people showed little support. Now, EVERYBODY has been a fan since those days. I hate the way Sean Payton smirks on the sidelines like he "queefed" and nobody heard it. Jimmy Graham and his douche-y tats. Drew Brees' face splat mole thing. Their stupid whistle mascot fans. That loud *** dome. The fleur de lis! I bet most of those idiot fans couldn't translate it! Why the flower?? I have no flippin' clue! I just know I have a deep disliking for it. Oh, yeah....and that damned "Who dat!" Looks like ere'body, which is an appropriate response to a dumb question for their equally dumb fans. This should probably go in the Soap Box forum.....
I do not recall that being the case. I recall that McAdoo was assumed to be an OC that Philbin would want because of the Green Bay connection. Did Miami even bring him in for an interview before they interviewed Lazor? McAdoo signed with the Giants a day before Lazor signed with Miami. That would not be enough time for Philbin to have changed course because he just lost out on his first choice.
Philbin retained Rodgers from the start. Shouldn't that be considered a positive? I recall reading he wanted Duffner to coach the LBs in 2012, but he was under contract and could not leave to make a lateral move.
Me too. He fvcked us royally twice and didn't even have the courtesy to give a reach around. Passing on drafting Aaron Rodgers, and then deciding to trade for Culpepper rather than sign Brees. I hate him.
We've had 6 convincing wins, each by 13 pts or more, that seemed to me like they were more the result of Lazor, Coyle, Tannehill, defensive talent, or some combination of the four. I think Philbin could've gone fishing during those games and Miami would've still walked away with the wins. On the flip side, we've yet to win a tight 4th qtr game all year, blowing 4th qtr leads to Denver, Green Bay, and Detroit, and getting the smackdown put on us by KC despite entering the 4th qtr trailing by just 6. Personally, I feel it's games like these that show the true merit of a head coach, and it follows suit back to last year when we blew a 17-3 halftime lead against New England, blew 4th qtr leads against Tampa, Buffalo, and Carolina [losing to Buf & Car each with less than a minute to play], blew a 17-3 lead late in the 3rd qtr to Cincy that Cam Wake had to win for us in OT, and we lost on a final minute FG to Baltimore. In 2012 Philbin lost back-to-back OT games against Zona & NY after blowing 4th qtr leads, lost to Indy by 3 in the 4th qtr, tried to hand Cincy & St Louis wins after leading both teams 17-6 in the 4th qtr, lost 27-13 to San Fran in a game we were clearly in [trailed 6-3 at halftime], and got smeared 37-3 by the 6-10 Titans, 30-10 by Houston, and 28-0 by New England. Not to mention, we were comfortably sitting at 8-6 with a playoffs trip ripe for the taking but the team came out flatter than Debra Messing's rack the final 2 weeks.
