Sims-Walker not tendered by Jags

"slickj101 wrote:

That'd be pretty ideal. It'd make sense for us to double up on RBs this year. We def need 2-3 so it'd def be this FO's style to draft a pair at the same position.

I'm sold on Ingram as a feature back as well. I love RBs that excel on passing downs AND short-yardage. I don't think we'd just throw him out there and expect 250 carries either. We need someone solid to back him up though. No Kevin Smith.

I'd be happy with Ingram, but I'd prefer to have 2 backs for the price of one. IE: Trading back and taking Mikel LeShoure as the multi-purpose big back..... and then using a late 2nd on Taiwan Jones, the explosive playmaking COP.

Either that or trading back and grabbing one of the elite guards 1st (Pouncey)...... Taiwan Jones 2nd...... our big back in Daniel Thomas 3rd...... Greg Little 4th..... and the much needed seam splitting TE 5th, Jordan Cameron or Virgil Green (even if he requires trading up for). That addresses 5 major positions: LG, #1 RB, COP back, TE, WR. But all these guys will still be rookies and we might need more of an immediate impact than these guys can provide....... which is why I'm all for a vet WR to help us out in transition.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

lol.:ffic:

Question: so then why does Hart get a pass when he's not a STer? If: Bess is Hartline, MSW is a potential upgrade at #2, and none of them are STers, then why not: take MSW, trade Hart for a 3rd, and use it on a someone who "isn't Bess" who can also be a stud in ST?........ like Greg Little. Bam, now our WR corps has much more talent, versatility, and playmaking ability, and it didn't even cost us a current pick...... rather only a few extra bucks that we have available to spend.

I agree, and it is one of the problems with the offense, we have to much duplication and minimal versitility, one of those guys should be a Returner and a good one.

I'd soil my pants if we had a WR unit that consisted of Marshall, Sims-Walker, Bess, and Little..... with maybe a speedy PR/KR (Jerrel Jernigan) added in as our 5th who can effectively fill in for Bess in the slot.

Do not be surprised if Little slides though TP, some bad vibes coming from his offseason so far, he is the only one of the UNC 5 who has had the suspension held against him, add in his route running is not good, and he could really slide this April.

Take were you feel Johnathon Baldwin comes off of the board and add 3 rds to it and that is where his slot is imho.

"padre31 wrote:

I agree, and it is one of the problems with the offense, we have to much duplication and minimal versitility, one of those guys should be a Returner and a good one.

great point..... and is a sore heel on this team IMO. Yup, we're definitely not getting enough out of the position.

Do not be surprised if Little slides though TP, some bad vibes coming from his offseason so far, he is the only one of the UNC 5 who has had the suspension held against him, add in his route running is not good, and he could really slide this April.

Take where you feel Johnathon Baldwin comes off of the board and add 3 rds to it and that is where his slot is imho.

I hope Little slides. All the better for the team who takes him (which is hopefully us b/c this kid WILL have some impact his rookie year). I could see him falling to the 4th...... but I could also see a team trying to learn from what guys like Mike Williams & Dez taught us---- that highly talented players can impact early on while they're learning if you find easy ways to get them the ball. I saw one of Little's interviews, and I was highly impressed. It's apparent by looking at him that he's been busting his butt this season to get himself NFL ready. Julio's a beast, and Little looked like a man standing next to him. This kid's more motivated now than he's ever been, and I don't think it'll let up b/c he's too fierce of a competitor. Marshall would help Greg bloom into a phenom IMO.

"padre31 wrote:

Well after studying these guys for 3 yrs now, look at who is on the practice squad or the bottom of the roster to figure out what they are looking for in a player, for example Pat Carter was an ex HS Qb, but is now a Wr, which to me is why they are looking at Josh Portis as well, they are looking for a cheaper version of Brad Smith.

Fans just ignore the PS but from what I've noticed, they use it like a minor leagues and they tryout what they are looking for in a player sort of like another avenue aside from the Draft, but who is on it is who they are looking for in the draft if that makes sense.

I don't ignore the practice squad but players on it do not mean much more than it's players they think have a chance to develop into something they might like to do.

They used it to keep Moore, whom I like, but he is a long way from being anything more than a 5th Wr at this point. Notice though, that he is fast and with no speed at Wr, and some talent, now that's why he was kept around. But the practice squad does not yield a high percentage of quality starters. They end up, for the most part, being contributors at best. This team needs a quality Wr/Kr and two quality Rb's/Kr's...with KR/PR coming from either position. But they need to either be already proven players, or from the first few rounds of the draft.

"padre31 wrote:

I agree, and it is one of the problems with the offense, we have to much duplication and minimal versitility, one of those guys should be a Returner and a good one.

Do not be surprised if Little slides though TP, some bad vibes coming from his offseason so far, he is the only one of the UNC 5 who has had the suspension held against him, add in his route running is not good, and he could really slide this April.

Take were you feel Johnathon Baldwin comes off of the board and add 3 rds to it and that is where his slot is imho.

I have a confession to make, sometimes, I dont do a lot of backround study on prospects after the 1st round..I just watch the film...I want Little, is he a real bad boy?

"djphinfan wrote:

I have a confession to make, sometimes, I dont do a lot of backround study on prospects after the 1st round..I just watch the film...I want Little, is he a real bad boy?

Nah, what I've read he was not completely honest about what his role was in payola at UNC.

"Ozzy wrote:

I don't ignore the practice squad but players on it do not mean much more than it's players they think have a chance to develop into something they might like to do.

Those are players who fit into their template Ozman, from a size/speed perspective that is what they are looking for in the Draft as well.

They used it to keep Moore, whom I like, but he is a long way from being anything more than a 5th Wr at this point. Notice though, that he is fast and with no speed at Wr, and some talent, now that's why he was kept around. But the practice squad does not yield a high percentage of quality starters. They end up, for the most part, being contributors at best. This team needs a quality Wr/Kr and two quality Rb's/Kr's...with KR/PR coming from either position. But they need to either be already proven players, or from the first few rounds of the draft.

Never will yield starters consistently, and Moore would be a good candidate for the #4 Wr if he were better at KR and PR, for whatever reason they rarely put him back there in favor of..Pat Cobbs..which was one of the things I did not like about Cobbs' being on the roster, he was the default player but he was just not very productive.

As for no speed, Hartline is fine, if the Qb, actually threw passes downfield accurately, why are people overlooking this?

Henne was one of the worst Qb's in the NFL at hitting down the field passes, stuff over 25 yds he had a small handful of completions all season, some rookie who runs a 4.3 is not going to change that fact, and A Armstrong was on the ps, they gave up on him in favor of Pat Turner, and he was a beast in Washington, so they do have a good eye for PS talent "someone" however is not very good at actually getting them on the field and in position to make plays..

"padre31 wrote:

Those are players who fit into their template Ozman, from a size/speed perspective that is what they are looking for in the Draft as well.

Never will yield starters consistently, and Moore would be a good candidate for the #4 Wr if he were better at KR and PR, for whatever reason they rarely put him back there in favor of..Pat Cobbs..which was one of the things I did not like about Cobbs' being on the roster, he was the default player but he was just not very productive.

As for no speed, Hartline is fine, if the Qb, actually threw passes downfield accurately, why are people overlooking this?

Henne was one of the worst Qb's in the NFL at hitting down the field passes, stuff over 25 yds he had a small handful of completions all season, some rookie who runs a 4.3 is not going to change that fact, and A Armstrong was on the ps, they gave up on him in favor of Pat Turner, and he was a beast in Washington, so they do have a good eye for PS talent "someone" however is not very good at actually getting them on the field and in position to make plays..

Practice squad players fit anyone criteria. That's why they can be signed by anyone at any given time. They're nothing more than developmental players. Do they fit what they want to do? They fit what they THINK they might be able to do, and you know that teams keep an eye on all teams PS players.

Hartline is fine? I totally agree that he is a fine player. One that belongs as a number 3 or 4 OR a possible number 2 with the right compliment on the other side.

I've said it time and time again. I am not the biggest Henne supporter. As a matter of fact, I'm very skeptical he'll develop into a bonefied NFL Qb but what the draft is telling Miami, is unless they're willing to bet the farm to move up into the top 5 in the draft, it is going to be very unlikely they'll be able to get a Qb that's better. If they bet the farm, I'm all for it but it's more likely, and probably a lot easier to stay put, or kick back in the draft and get Lineman, Rb's and fill a need for REAL speed at Wr...

"Ozzy wrote:

Practice squad players fit anyone criteria. That's why they can be signed by anyone at any given time. They're nothing more than developmental players. Do they fit what they want to do? They fit what they THINK they might be able to do, and you know that teams keep an eye on all teams PS players.

This is what I mean by understanding how they us the PS Ozman, they would not have their pick of players, and then take players who do not have the attributes they are looking for in general, Wr's are all over 6 0' for example.

Why would they have anyone on the PS they did not want?

Hartline is fine? I totally agree that he is a fine player. One that belongs as a number 3 or 4 OR a possible number 2 with the right compliment on the other side.

Nah, he's a legit #2 Wr in the NFL, no different than a Anthony Gonzalez, Henne's performance dropped when he was injured for a reason.

I've said it time and time again. I am not the biggest Henne supporter. As a matter of fact, I'm very skeptical he'll develop into a bonefied NFL Qb but what the draft is telling Miami, is unless they're willing to bet the farm to move up into the top 5 in the draft, it is going to be very unlikely they'll be able to get a Qb that's better. If they bet the farm, I'm all for it but it's more likely, and probably a lot easier to stay put, or kick back in the draft and get Lineman, Rb's and fill a need for REAL speed at Wr...

Eh, or Dolphins fans have not suffered through developing a young Qb in 30 yrs, there is no guarantee that a Top 5 Qb would do any better than Henne, that is just how the game is.

"padre31 wrote:

This is what I mean by understanding how they us the PS Ozman, they would not have their pick of players, and then take players who do not have the attributes they are looking for in general, Wr's are all over 6 0' for example.

Why would they have anyone on the PS they did not want?

Nah, he's a legit #2 Wr in the NFL, no different than a Anthony Gonzalez, Henne's performance dropped when he was injured for a reason.

Eh, or Dolphins fans have not suffered through developing a young Qb in 30 yrs, there is no guarantee that a Top 5 Qb would do any better than Henne, that is just how the game is.

I don't know man, but you seem to think I'm not agreeing with you about practice squad players. I am to a point but what you seem to be overlooking is that practice squad players do not come directly from the squad to starting unless injuries force it. To upgrade the Wr position more than likely it will come from elsewhere. Practice squad helps the depth.

You keep telling yourself that Hartline is fine as a two. But the truth speaks differently. Not in this offense and not with this Qb....

As for the last part. Come on Pads, I've been around the block more than a few times. We all know things are a crapshoot. BUT this year there seems to be a couple who could be better and that's when you bet the farm because they're slated to go early. Miami has not picked a Qb in the first round in how many years? It's got to happen sooner or later because all we see are late round hopefulls and 2nd or 3rd round average at best Qb's....

"Ozzy wrote:

I don't know man, but you seem to think I'm not agreeing with you about practice squad players. I am to a point but what you seem to be overlooking is that practice squad players do not come directly from the squad to starting unless injuries force it. To upgrade the Wr position more than likely it will come from elsewhere. Practice squad helps the depth.

I think we are talking about different things, you are maybe looking at Starters, I'm looking at the type and measurables of the players on the PS, their performance is secondary to what I'm speaking of, whom they have on the PS is the type of player they are looking for not necessarily THOSE players.

I see it as a snap shot of what they look for and want out of anyone they bring into Miami.

You keep telling yourself that Hartline is fine as a two. But the truth speaks differently. Not in this offense and not with this Qb.

He very nearly had 1,000 yds, I see no reason to downgrade him for that, and I saw Henne miss him several times deep down the field that would have been TD's with better throws, but Henne was not even close to hitting him.

As for the last part. Come on Pads, I've been around the block more than a few times. We all know things are a crapshoot. BUT this year there seems to be a couple who could be better and that's when you bet the farm because they're slated to go early. Miami has not picked a Qb in the first round in how many years? It's got to happen sooner or later because all we see are late round hopefulls and 2nd or 3rd round average at best Qb's....

Qb's are there every yr Ozzy, the only thing different this time around is perceived need, and using a #1 pick on a Qb is no guarantee of anything at all.

Why is it the collapse of the running game is just ignored, and in substitution this idea that a #1 pick on a Qb is going to make everything better?

"padre31 wrote:

I think we are talking about different things, you are maybe looking at Starters, I'm looking at the type and measurables of the players on the PS, their performance is secondary to what I'm speaking of, whom they have on the PS is the type of player they are looking for not necessarily THOSE players.

I see it as a snap shot of what they look for and want out of anyone they bring into Miami.

He very nearly had 1,000 yds, I see no reason to downgrade him for that, and I saw Henne miss him several times deep down the field that would have been TD's with better throws, but Henne was not even close to hitting him.

Qb's are there every yr Ozzy, the only thing different this time around is perceived need, and using a #1 pick on a Qb is no guarantee of anything at all.

Why is it the collapse of the running game is just ignored, and in substitution this idea that a #1 pick on a Qb is going to make everything better?

I don't think you read my posts enough. I've said it three thousand times. The running game is the most important thing to improve on this team! I never said draft a Qb this year in the first. I said I'd be ok with it if they did. I never said the Wr's need to be upgraded. I said there is a need for a burner, and if one is sitting in front of them, like Sims Walker, and they like him, then by all means sign the man because Hartline did absolutely nothing last year to solidify being a number 2 starting Wr...

"Ozzy wrote:

I don't think you read my posts enough. I've said it three thousand times. The running game is the most important thing to improve on this team! I never said draft a Qb this year in the first. I said I'd be ok with it if they did. I never said the Wr's need to be upgraded. I said there is a need for a burner, and if one is sitting in front of them, like Sims Walker, and they like him, then by all means sign the man because Hartline did absolutely nothing last year to solidify being a number 2 starting Wr...

To that I say:

-Hartline did as well as possible with Henne at Qb, his speed is fine, if Henne cannot get him the ball he cannot get him the ball.

-MSW does not offer enough versatility as a player to justify his contract.

-"if" the running game is a priority the cash for MSW should go for a LG.

"padre31 wrote:

This is what I mean by understanding how they us the PS Ozman, they would not have their pick of players, and then take players who do not have the attributes they are looking for in general, Wr's are all over 6 0' for example.

Why would they have anyone on the PS they did not want?

Nah, he's a legit #2 Wr in the NFL, no different than a Anthony Gonzalez, Henne's performance dropped when he was injured for a reason.

Eh, or Dolphins fans have not suffered through developing a young Qb in 30 yrs, there is no guarantee that a Top 5 Qb would do any better than Henne, that is just how the game is.

That's an inaccurate blanket statement. Not all NFL teams are the same or have the same personnel, so you can't just say that, b/c he'd be a legit #2 for most of the NFL, that he's a legit #2 here. That doesn't account for each team's individual dynamics. Hart might make for a decent #2 in Houston or Philly where Andre Johnson and DeSean can create much of their own space, but if you throw Hart in Seattle with Mike Williams, then that won't go over as favorably. Ditto in Miami with Brandon.

Respectfully, you keep going back to Hartline as if this is a 3 man game---- a snapper, QB, and 1 WR (Brian). But this is 11 guys we have to be concerned with. If Hart doesn't benefit the other 10 guys as well as the #2 position could, then it doesn't matter what Brian's individual production is capable of.

Not to mention the fact that Brandon Marshall makes it possible for many receivers to have near 1000 yard seasons when Brandon's demanding much of the coverage, so you're making a bigger deal out of Hart's 1000 yard potential than it really is. How about his scoring ability? How about his playmaking ability? How about what he does (or doesn't do) for the receiver on this team who TRULY matters most---- Brandon Marshall?

Our receiving corps does not revolve around Hartline; he's an after though. The FIRST thing that needs to be considered with any receiver on the team is--- how much does he benefit Marshall, or how much does he benefit from Marshall (rather than how much he benefits himself). 600-800 yards and 1-2 TDs are not good enough numbers for a #2 playing opposite Marshall. I respectfully don't care what Hartline did; I care about the numbers that I believe are attainable from a #2 WR benefiting from Brandon's extra coverage. A solid number 2 here should be capable of 900-1100 yards, 6+ TDs, and a handful of game changing plays per season..... and a solid #2 should allow Brandon to produce 1200+ yards and 8+ TDs per season. Brandon's and Hart's combined production is no where near what it could be if the #2 position were upgraded.

My gosh, we have a WR position that's seeing a lot of single coverage. This isn't something we should be lackadaisical about; this is something we should be jumping all over to exploit to our advantage...... and Hartline does not exploit the advantage. Brian as OUR #2 does nothing more than keep our offense average by not allowing the offense to attain it's maximum potential.

Added: have you ever thought that one of the reason's Henne hasn't developed to his potential thus far is the possibility that Hartline does NOT match up to Henne's skill set or arm? I'm sorry, but Hartline is so far removed from the priority of this offense. It's about Brandon, Chad, and Bess right now. If it means potentially getting more from Brandon & Chad, then Brian's role as the #2 is completely expendable.

Lol Hartline doing well enough to justify his spot. The dude got single coverage every single game of the year and the #3rd CB basically every game and still couldn't beat man. His inability to beat CBs regularly was one of the prime reasons teams would sit in the cover 2 look every game.

"Robert Horry wrote:

Lol Hartline doing well enough to justify his spot. The dude got single coverage every single game of the year and the #3rd CB basically every game and still couldn't beat man. His inability to beat CBs regularly was one of the prime reasons teams would sit in the cover 2 look every game.

Nonsense, dude was open, #7 couldn't hit him down the field to save his life..:lol:

Browns game, Bengals game, those would have easily been TD's with better throws.

Henne was the most inaccurate Qb down the field in the NFL, he hit less 25 yd or longer plays then anyone else, well, maybe #2 behind whomever the Browns had at Qb.

"ToddsPhins wrote:

That's an inaccurate blanket statement. Not all NFL teams are the same or have the same personnel, so you can't just say that, b/c he'd be a legit #2 for most of the NFL, that he's a legit #2 here. That doesn't account for each team's individual dynamics. Hart might make for a decent #2 in Houston or Philly where Andre Johnson and DeSean can create much of their own space, but if you throw Hart in Seattle with Mike Williams, then that won't go over as favorably. Ditto in Miami with Brandon.

Respectfully, you keep going back to Hartline as if this is a 3 man game---- a snapper, QB, and 1 WR (Brian). But this is 11 guys we have to be concerned with. If Hart doesn't benefit the other 10 guys as well as the #2 position could, then it doesn't matter what Brian's individual production is capable of.

Not to mention the fact that Brandon Marshall makes it possible for many receivers to have near 1000 yard seasons when Brandon's demanding much of the coverage, so you're making a bigger deal out of Hart's 1000 yard potential than it really is. How about his scoring ability? How about his playmaking ability? How about what he does (or doesn't do) for the receiver on this team who TRULY matters most---- Brandon Marshall?

Our receiving corps does not revolve around Hartline; he's an after though. The FIRST thing that needs to be considered with any receiver on the team is--- how much does he benefit Marshall, or how much does he benefit from Marshall (rather than how much he benefits himself). 600-800 yards and 1-2 TDs are not good enough numbers for a #2 playing opposite Marshall. I respectfully don't care what Hartline did; I care about the numbers that I believe are attainable from a #2 WR benefiting from Brandon's extra coverage. A solid number 2 here should be capable of 900-1100 yards, 6+ TDs, and a handful of game changing plays per season..... and a solid #2 should allow Brandon to produce 1200+ yards and 8+ TDs per season. Brandon's and Hart's combined production is no where near what it could be if the #2 position were upgraded.

My gosh, we have a WR position that's seeing a lot of single coverage. This isn't something we should be lackadaisical about; this is something we should be jumping all over to exploit to our advantage...... and Hartline does not exploit the advantage. Brian as OUR #2 does nothing more than keep our offense average by not allowing the offense to attain it's maximum potential.

Added: have you ever thought that one of the reason's Henne hasn't developed to his potential thus far is the possibility that Hartline does NOT match up to Henne's skill set or arm? I'm sorry, but Hartline is so far removed from the priority of this offense. It's about Brandon, Chad, and Bess right now. If it means potentially getting more from Brandon & Chad, then Brian's role as the #2 is completely expendable.

Let me know when he can throw himself the ball.

Besides, they just do not value Wr as much as people demand they do, why is this so hard to understand?

"padre31 wrote:

I think we are talking about different things, you are maybe looking at Starters, I'm looking at the type and measurables of the players on the PS, their performance is secondary to what I'm speaking of, whom they have on the PS is the type of player they are looking for not necessarily THOSE players.

I see it as a snap shot of what they look for and want out of anyone they bring into Miami.

He very nearly had 1,000 yds, I see no reason to downgrade him for that, and I saw Henne miss him several times deep down the field that would have been TD's with better throws, but Henne was not even close to hitting him.

Qb's are there every yr Ozzy, the only thing different this time around is perceived need, and using a #1 pick on a Qb is no guarantee of anything at all.

Why is it the collapse of the running game is just ignored, and in substitution this idea that a #1 pick on a Qb is going to make everything better?

Exactly. The type of guys we have are more of the playmaker caliber, so that would tell me this regime is starting to look for playmakers rather than more freaking possession guys. So if we've switched to a playmaking mentality, then please tell me how Hartline fits into this mold. lol.

It's not about US downgrading him for 1000 yards; it's about YOU upgrading him for 1000 yards that he's never even seen. :tongue2: How is 615 yards considered "nearly 1000 yards"? Until he hits 1000 yards, then he's NOT a thousand yard receiver. lol.

You're taking 1000 yards entirely out of context as if 1000 yards is 1000 yards...... but they're not. 1000 yards by a #1 WR facing tougher coverage is NOT the same thing as 1000 yards by a #2 WR facing easier coverage. 1000 yards by itself also doesn't account for impact yards. The bulk of Brian's yards came from our own 20-40 yard line. He doesn't break big plays; he's not great at converting 3rd downs; and he's not a scorer. He's a possession receiver, and we do NOT need any more of those. Like you said--- we need more diversity.

Marshall isn't being demoted; Bess isn't being demoted; Fasano isn't being demoted (unless we sign Zach Miller); so that leaves Hartline as the odd man out. By default, the #2 WR position is all that's left to help take us out of this weak, possession based offense and into a more explosive one to where everyone else benefits from it.

"padre31 wrote:

To that I say:

-Hartline did as well as possible with Henne at Qb, his speed is fine, if Henne cannot get him the ball he cannot get him the ball.

-MSW does not offer enough versatility as a player to justify his contract.

-"if" the running game is a priority the cash for MSW should go for a LG.

What LG? There aren't many left. We have the cap room to add a Sims-Walker AND address the Oline. Cmon now---- the Giants spend more on Eli Manning alone than we do on our entire offensive skill positions combined (including TE, adding MSW, drafting 2 RBs, and adding Lex in FA).

Please elaborate on why Hart's speed is fine as our primary deep threat b/c we're on a different page here.

There are just too many posts I disagree with to reply to one...

Again, I just don't understand some logic here. I respect the opinions, although I disagree with them.

What does Mike Sims Walker bring to the table that we don't have already? He doesn't offer big play ability, shown by his CAREER 2 40+ YD catches. He has only 25 20+ yd catches in his 5 year career. Brian Hartline has 3 40+ yd receptions and 17 20+ yd receptions in 3 less years, or 10 less games.

He doesn't offer a great YPC. His career avg is 13.5. Brian Hartline's is 15.1.

His best year was 63 catches for 869 yds (15 games). Brian Hartline's 43 catches 615 yds (12 games).

He doesn't offer a great YAC. He has a career 3.4 YAC. Brian Hartline has 5.4 career YAC.

So what is it that he does better? I only compare him to Hartline, because it seems as though that is what most want to do. Why is he an upgrade to our team, either in place of Hartline or with Hartline? He'll certainly come in with a higher paycheck--and undeservedly so.

I hear all this clamoring that Chad Henne needs a deep threat. Why bring a guy who offers the same of what we have, but at a more expensive rate and less production? Because he had 7 TDs? Are you kidding me? TDs are just as much a product of the QB as the WR. Brandon Marshall would have had 6 and Hartline 5 (just in the games they played), had Chad Henne been able to throw an accurate pass.

I'm not a big fan of Henne, but this isn't about my opinion on Chad. I've come to the realization that the chances of him being the starting QB next year are strong. So, I agree with most here when I say we need to upgrade the players around him to put him in the best possible situation. How is the best possible situation spreading our team out 4-5 WRs? How is it the best possible scenario when his clearest issues are where to go with the football, anticipation, and pocket awareness? All things that will be of utmost importance when you run those kinds of sets. And most importantly, how does Mike Sims Walker fit into that mold?

Also, most clamor that we need a speedster that can run under/down Henne's deep balls. How is Mike Sims Walker that guy? He played in a much more vertical passing game than we did, was considered the vertical threat on the team, yet didn't put up the numbers. Now do you know why they chose to keep JASON HILL over him?

We aren't going to get Mike Sims Walker. Nor should we. We have other glaring needs on this offense, like the interior OL, RB, and TE depth (I think QB also, but again another debate). WR is the least of our worries. With that said, I don't believe that we shouldn't address it if a player is available. I'm on the Jacoby Jones bandwagon. He doesn't offer a whole lot on the WR front, but he kills two birds with one stone, in his ability to be a dynamic KR/PR. I'm even on the bandwagon of drafting an A.J. Green/Julio Jones with our 1st Rd Pick. I believe those two players are special players that make a QB better/look better.

Mike Sims Walker is not one of those players. He needs attempts, much like Brandon Marshall needs attempts--except Marshall makes exponentially better/greater/bigger plays.

BTW, again being privy to this information in Jacksonville helps, but the Jaguars have been searching for WR talent since Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell. They've hinged their bets on big contracts with Jerry Porter, Torry Holt, Kassim Osgood and used high draft picks on Matt Jones, Reggie Williams. So, why would they just allow a player they drafted, with ALL of this TALENT we Dolphins fans believe him to have, to just walk away? Without even the lowest of tenders? Just stew on that.

"Robert Horry wrote:

Lol Hartline doing well enough to justify his spot. The dude got single coverage every single game of the year and the #3rd CB basically every game and still couldn't beat man. His inability to beat CBs regularly was one of the prime reasons teams would sit in the cover 2 look every game.

Mostly agree but...

Hartline was seen open more than a few times but to me, what the problem is, is that Henne uses air under his deeper throws so getting a Wr with some solid burst would allow Henne to play to Henne's strength which is put some air and some mustard on his deep throws and let that burner get under it. Hartline cannot do that. He needs a Qb who can either throw precision passes or throws with less arc on the ball and puts it in his general area. Hartline also had the dropsies, and Marshall does that enough.

I don't think teams went Cover 2 because Hartline was on the field. I think that had more to do with Henne being the Qb. Henne cannot get a free pass here but with Qb being a lot less likely to fill, I'd hope they get someone who gives Henne a chance to at least be able to succeed. Henne can get another shot but he was less than stellar...

"padre31 wrote:

Besides, they just do not value Wr as much as people demand they do, why is this so hard to understand?

Well someone tell them they should have never traded for Brandon Marshall then.

It's hard to understand because you have no solid proof to it....

"ToddsPhins wrote:

Please elaborate on why Hart's speed is fine as our primary deep threat b/c we're on a different page here.

Hartline's speed and ability are excellent. He'd be one of the better number 3 or 4 Wr's in the league, and I'd be willing to bet that he would be greatly appreciated by us fans if he were to have 2 or 3 Wr's who actually scare defenders on the field at the same time as him. He would reap the benefits from it and even though his actual touches would decrease, his YAC and Yards per would increase.

"ToddsPhins" wrote:

What LG? There aren't many left. We have the cap room to add a Sims-Walker AND address the Oline. Cmon now---- the Giants spend more on Eli Manning alone than we do on our entire offensive skill positions combined (including TE, adding MSW, drafting 2 RBs, and adding Lex in FA).

Please elaborate on why Hart's speed is fine as our primary deep threat b/c we're on a different page here.

Because he gets open deep???

"padre31 wrote:

Nonsense, dude was open, #7 couldn't hit him down the field to save his life..:lol:

Browns game, Bengals game, those would have easily been TD's with better throws.

Henne was the most inaccurate Qb down the field in the NFL, he hit less 25 yd or longer plays then anyone else, well, maybe #2 behind whomever the Browns had at Qb.

That's b/c Hartline sucks as a downfield receiver. He is FAR from reliable downfield..... and getting open 3 times does not making him a vertical threat. QB's miss deep throws ALL the time. Does that mean every QB in the NFL is innaccurate downfield? DeSean Jackson gets open as many times deep in 1 game as Hartline does in a season. How the heck is a QB supposed to develop any rapport with that? Having a possession WR as your vertical threat is NO vertical threat at all. Relying on mostly craftiness alone does NOT make you a legitimate vertical threat.

How is Hart's speed running under a pass? It's mediocre. How is his speed to keep a quicker defender from recovering? It's mediocre. What kind of margin of error does he provide for his QB's long ball? Absofreakinlutely little. If it's overthrown, does he have that extra top end burst to catch up to it? F no. If the pass is left or right does he have the tracking skills to EFFECTIVELY adjust to it and make a play? Nope. Does he have the hands, body control, physicality, size, and hops to make the acrobatic catch downfield? Negative ghost rider. How about in traffic? Negative again. Does he attack the ball down field? That would be another "no", which allows DBs an opportunity to make a play.

Who cares if he runs open from time to time if he's unreliable when the pass is not right on the money. I just don't understand how you feel a should-be slot receiver can effectively and reliably serve as our team's vertical threat.