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Should Josh McCown start over John Beck this season.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I was looking at Josh McCown's stats over his relatively short career, and noticed that his QB rating has only once dipped below 70%, last season he was at 69.4%, which is 7% higher then Beck's were last season, and McCown's 2 min drill efficency was a decent 85% for a very bad Raiders team last season.

    Josh McCown with 40+ starts is the same age as John Beck with only 4 starts, McCown also played well, or at least respectably well on some really bad teams in Arizona and Oakland, and he kept his teams competitive, a situation that we could find ourselves in this season.

    McCown's downside is he is a fumbler (11 fumbles, 3 lost), and his efficency drops in the 4th qtr when coming from behind, and statistically, he has problems throwing out patterns with a not very good less then 50% completion rate on out passes to either side.

    Interestingly, McCown's two wins in Oakland, McCown was deadly accurate, passing at a 125% and 109% QB efficency ratings, both wins came against "good" teams, Oakland and Denver.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5967/gamelog;_ylt=Agi2pMPNRG6tlP.L8SPuPkj.uLYF

    Beck on the other hand, is still and unknown commodity after last seasons 4 game trial, he was outplayed statistically by Cleo Lemon, and he never showed the athletic ability that he was touted to have at BYU.


    McCown could turn into Gus Ferotte, or he could be Joey Harrington Jr. When he is good he is very good, when bad he fumbles a bit too much and is a better touch passer then a Qb who drives the ball down the field on deep outs.
     
  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Nah, Beck needs a shot. I would post more but I adopted Fields so I can't do that lol. :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2008
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  3. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I think Josh McCown WILL start this season. I doubt Beck will start a game unless McCown falls on his face.
     
  4. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Just so people don't get confused the QB rating is not a %. It ranges from 0-158.3. The 70's are barely passable to be honest.

    Mid 80's is what you hope for out of at least a competent starter, and I personally hope for 90's out of whoever our answer at QB becomes (Beck *crosses fingers*).

    I know the rating is extremely weighted by touchdowns, which is part of the reason Beck's was so bad last year. But he was also a rookie, and it was obvious some parts of the team played harder when he was not in there.

    If he earns the job this year (which I hope he does) the 80's should not be out of reach, but anything more from a 2nd year player on such a sub talent team (on paper) would be a pipe dream, IMO (even though I hope for 90's).

    I do not think McCown will be anymore than he has already shown, and that is a QB with a rating around 75.

    Note: I don't know how you say his QB rating has only once dipped below 70, since that happened in 2007 and 2002. Also, McCowns numbers were worse as a rookie then Beck's IMO.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I can't really say who I would prefer to see start, I like McCown's toughness, he volunteered to play Wr in Detroit when he wasn't the starting Qb, that tells me he is pretty tough mentally and physically, "but" he just does not have a great track record, it's a passable record for a guy whose bounced around and played for bad teams.

    He just doesn't hang unto the ball the way I'd like.

    Beck on the other hand, I want to see the #2 arm and the 4.7 40 shine through in his play.

    Last year he had ball handling problems same as McCown did.

    I think that Sparano may favor the vet, especially with the way Vets hung on in Dallas.
     
  6. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    As his adopted Papa you have my blessing to defend him:yes: I agree my son is going to be the future of this team and he will both earn and show he is this teams QB of the future and now come mini camps and preseason. Our OL will be better then anything he had to defend him last year, and he will have RB & RW taking the pressure off him, and Ginn will catch everything thrown his way. My boy is going to be noticed this year.
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    He threw 18 passes his rookie season.

    The 70's is still better then Beck or Lemon last yr though Stitches, and I think he knows what side of the pylon the ball is supposed to cross....:wink2:
     
  8. Kanye West

    Kanye West 'Parcells' Guy

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    No John Beck should start Josh McCowon had his chance to prove him self on other teams.
    :up::ffic:
     
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  9. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    70's is better than last year, but as I said McCown wasn't any better than Beck as a rookie. Who's to say Beck won't improve more than McCown did between year 1 and 2?

    And I bet Beck knows what side of the pylon the ball is supposed to be on.

    Also, Lemon crossed the plain on that play. It was a TD. Aside from that, I am not going to take shots at the guy for what he did. He thought he was in, it wasn't like he didn't try. He thought he did enough to get the ball in, but it wasn't enough for the refs. I'm sure if he knew they would not uphold it he would have dove. The guy has done that for first downs before, but if he can score without taking the hits, why wouldn't he? It would be needless damage to his body when he was already taking a beating.
     
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  10. Caps

    Caps Movimiento Juvenil

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    Beck WILL start, as he should. I have a feeling not only will he play and do well, but he'll come out slinging and playing at a high level right at the start of this season after all the hard work he's put into the offseason.
     
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  11. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Also, you want to throw out 18 attempts as a rookie, so that we discount it from his rating, well look at 5 sacks in his rookie year.

    Beck did take twice as many sacks, but he had 6 times as many attempts.

    Also, over his career, McCown has a 2min drill QB rating of 67.8. Beck last year, with such a bad year, managed to have a 74.2 rating in the 2 minute drill.
     
  12. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Only if McCown deserves it - that is to say, only if he beats the other QBs on the roster out. No QB should start if they don't deserve it and aren't ready for it.
     
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Stitches wrote:

    A better comparison would be yr 2 and 3 for McCown, he actually improved across the board between 2003 and 2004, double the yds at 2,500 and more Td then Int's (11 to 10) while being sacked 32 times in 14 games.

    And I was kidding about Cleo Lemon, he did run out of bounds and knocked us out of FG range against the Ravens as well..:huh1: but I still liked him, the fact that the Jags let Quinn Gray go and signed Lemon so quickly should say something about his skills.

    As for Beck, he is such a blank slate, no one can really say what he may do, and for me, the preseason is not telling for him, he played well last preseason and it did not translate out on the field during the regular season.
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    To be fair though, Beck played very well against Cincy when the game was out of reach, his one TD for the season came in that time frame.
     
  15. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    I just have a real suspicion that Sparano and Lee will put the one who shows the most in the pre-season on the field, but that will be heavily leveraged in favor of Beck - more reps with the #1 offense, etc. In the end, though, Beck is the highest QB picked in a draft that the 'Phins have had on the roster since 1999, and will have some financial obligations which could lead them to keep him around and give him more than ample opportunity to win the position. And, I think he deserves that after being thrown to the hounds in the swamp bowls last year in that Mongolian Cluster Flop (a clean-up of an old George Carlin routine and a USMC/USN favorite brand of FUBAR!) of a season...

    McCown is much more capable than he has been allowed to show with the teams on which he played, or the coaches who coached those teams. But, I think Beck has the inside track with the current situation. Even if Brohm, Flacco, Henne, or someone of that ilk show up in the draft, and henceforth, in camp, I would still say that Beck has the inside track at the starters role since I would prefer to sit a rookie and not give him the baptism of fire that Beck had last year. It usually doesn't work out - and it sure did not last year. McCown would, I think, have to be dazzling in pre-season and in camp to be declared the starter, or Beck would have to fall flatter than a penny under a steamroller.
     
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  16. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I say start out the preseason with Beck as the starter, McCown as 2nd string. then let them play for it. While i want beck to have a fair chance to start, if in the preseason he is outplayed, then i think its fair to say he lost his chance.
     
  17. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    If he earns it.....sure
     
  18. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I actually wanted us to go after Josh when he left the Cards, but we didn't. I think we got Harrington then...at any rate, one thing that impressed me about him was his deep ball. He seems to have pretty good timing and accuracy on them.

    But I still think that the job is Becks. He's our future (at this point) and we need to give him every opportunity to take the job...
     
  19. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    Let's put it this way, if McCown is our starter next year, it is a bad sign.

    Who's going to be happy about that?

    Besides Josh McCown...

    I can't think of anyone.
     
  20. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Ooh, I think I adopted McCown so I guess I'll have to defend him, but its past my bedtime so I'll get after that in the morning, really must get some sleep. I'll dream about McCown now I'm sure of it, so maybe I'll have a better idea how to defend him. (Rats, I wanted Beck but got beat to it)

    But to start my responsibilities off right: McCown ABSOLUTELY WILL START NEXT YEAR! (Is that doing my job as his proud adoptive Papa?)
     
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  21. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Good work....just dont be one of those dads that fights people....like randy marsh in the drunk/little league episode of southpark "you wanna go?!" haha
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Happy? Not really, but I do think it is important to start the Qb who gives us the best chance to win and be competitive, McCown can do that for us at least.
     
  23. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I'm almost certain that regardless of who we draft, McCown will start the season. As Padre pointed he's the same age as Beck and Parcells has no allegiances. He's looking for his guys. Right now, noone on the roster is his guy other than maybe people that he brought over from Dallas. The one quality that will be in McCown's favor is that I think he is the toughest QB in the entire NFL. The guy got hit so much last year, I literally was looking for someone to call a mercy rule. The amazing thing is he kept getting up and playing on. This guy started over Culpepper when he had a bum ankle a bum finger on his throwing hand and another injury lol. There is something about the guy that certain coaches like. And one thing Parcells loves is toughness. Beck may be tough but he's not as tough as McCown and that's no slight against Beck because noone is. Also He's going to know the playbook backwards and forwards and his experience is going to give him an edge over Beck. But the one thing I'll say is there is a good chance that Beck will play at some point. Parcells has been known to throw in 2nd stringers in the middle of a game just to test how ready they are if called upon
     
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  24. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    While I hope that John Beck is our starting QB I do think he needs to win the job and I mean really win it. I feel that the FO wants John to be the guy. Why else all this time spent with John and hiring a QB coach before hiring a HC? However John has to show he is much better for two reasons. 1. He has to prove to himself that he can; in his own mind. And 2. It will also cement his leadership with his teammates and, trust me, they will know who really won.

    By the way John's QB rating in his last game was 96.4; not bad for the rook.
     
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  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I prefer Beck because, well, i coddle our draft picks more than FA pickups.

    I didnt' adopt Beck, but I can't judge Beck by his performance last year after it came out that Beck ran the scout team last year until Green went down, which is fine. But those idiots that I supported last year, failed to secure another QB for two weeks, therefore Cleo was running the first team, while Beck continued to run the scout team. Idiotic. Then a week or two after that, Cameron, looking for a spark, a flame, anything, threw Beck onto the field desperately searching for his first win. That is akin to a rookie QB holding out for all of offseason, training camp, coming back for the last two weeks, not playing in any of the preseason games, and starting the first game, with some of the teams best offensive weapons gone (Brown and Chambers).

    Who could possibly succeed in that situation? Therefore I think it imprudent to judge Beck after his performance last year. And I fully believe he will win the job. We've seen McCown, and he isn't bad, but I expect Beck to be better, therefore win the job.

    And I know I didn't adopt Beck, but I'm rooting for the kid to succeed, since I don't see McCown being more than pretty decent. Now who wants to say something about Mauia???
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It is hard to root against Beck, but he does have to show more then he has physically, and that is where McCown's experience may win the day, but it is also safe to say that McCown has found his ceiling 70% rating, average efficency of 1.1 Td's to 1 int, wereas Beck really hasn't had much of a chance.

    I do think that even before the draft, our "best" talent is on Offense, so whomever wins will have more to work with then say Beck did when got his little trial run.

    And as to learning the offense, Henning can make a simple offense work well week in and week out, he took a Vet Rb, a unknown Wr and Journeyman Qb and led them to the SB in 2004, so I don't think the playbook will be a real concern.
     
  27. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

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    Like others said, only if he deserves it. That being said, hopefully Beck tackles this challenge and really steps it up:up:
     
  28. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Well...

    I think we will be able to more honestly answer some questions once we start having some mini camps and such. With all the work John Beck has put in, I think the whole "Bill Parcel's guy" theory washed out. Parcels LOVES football players. Ones that eat, breath, and drink football. You start aligning your chicken nuggets into a shotgun formation, well, Bill Parcels is gonna take notice.

    With his tools, football smarts, and the work he has put in. I have NO DOUBT that John Beck will be starting next year. Hey...Im a Josh McCown fan..(hope I spelt his last name right, wouldnt that look dumb) ...and I kinda wish I didnt have to pick Beck over him...but I really..really like Beck.

    So...the answer is no....he shouldnt start. Unless he beats him out in TC, which I dont see happening.
     
  29. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    If Josh McCown is the QB who deserves to start and gives us the best shot to win games, I'll be happy about it. So there's 1.
     
  30. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    I will! :lol:

    (Not really, I'm a Beck fan, but don't tell my son Josh)

    In his defense (my job as Papa) Josh will likely win the starting job in a fair competition because Parcells will want the experience in there. And Josh has shown flashes of brilliance, he could turn into another late starter like Rich Gannon, maybe all Josh needs is a decent team around him (which is why he'd fail next season and Beck will start the remaining games, turn into a superstar, aw there I go again, my poor kid)
     
  31. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Adam! Join me, co-adopt my son Josh, you'd be great! (can you wear a skirt though? :lol:)
     
  32. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    There have been some good arguments on both sides and I am not going to be one of those dads who picks a fight when it is not needed, but let me say WHO EVER DOES NOT ROOT FOR MY BOY IS GONNA GET IT. Now let me buy you all a beer:ffic:
     
  33. Zach13

    Zach13 Season Ticket Holder

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    This should be a true training camp battle for the job.

    Whoever does better in TC should be the opening day starter.
     
  34. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    All fun aside I agree the QB battle should be a fun one to watch.
     
  35. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If he beats him out clearly. I think Beck is a better qb and has more upside and is more likely teh future so starting McCown is delaying the inevitable. Plus I know McCown was in some rough circumstances and had some bad luck, and I do like his attitude and belief system, I just am weary of guys that have floated around that much, 3 teams in 3 years even if the other 2 were the raiders and lions.

    I think Beck has teh "it" factor and will grow into a very solid NFL pro.
     
  36. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    I didn't say there wasn't anyone, I said I couldn't think of anyone.:wink2:
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    John Beck played the majority of games last preseason, and he also supposedly had the best practices...whatever that means.

    For me, I have tough time seeing Sparano allowing the season to start with question marks at Qb, Qb Coach Lee is a fine teacher, changing the habits of a football lifetime does take time though.
     
  38. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    This is Beck's year! He will thrive in Henning's offense IMO.
     

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