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Shaquem Griffin..Needs to be a Miami Dolphin

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by djphinfan, Jan 1, 2018.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeah absolutely other smallish speedy weak side prospect should be a part of the evaluation, why its more isolated on griffin is because imo he has the highest upside and potential to reach great player status.
     
  2. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was responding to direct post that expressed what I wanted to say so I spoke directly to that poster.

    As for the scouting exercise, it comes off as a desire to say, "I was right" more than anything else. Personally, I wanted Griffin and said so before the draft (although I expected he was likely to be valued as a third round pick by the league at large), but I don't have any desire to be "right" here. I see Baker as a reasonable choice for what they wanted. And I recognize that even given similar talent that their future success will be hugely affected by how they're used and the situations and opportunities they are provided so I don't believe that such a comparison will prove who was right anyways.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thats you, and thats cool, I like to play the game and I like to know that our front office people are talented evaluators because I care about our team greatly and the future of it, and, If we think they're not doing a good job, then we all should apply pressure.

    potentially a blatant misread on a potential great player who was available to you at a need position, they should be held accountable, not us just saying, its all good, lets just root for our guy is not how I'm wired, I wanna know were always in good hands as far a personnel evaluators on our team i concerned.

    I can multitask, I can root for our guy and keep an eye on them.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
  4. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If Baker becomes a good player then the front office would have done a good job regardless of what Griffin does. If Baker does not become a good player then they did a bad job. Either way you can evaluate the FO. And if you were really just worried about evaluating the FO then it would not be limited to Griffin. It would include any of the other available options. Basically that's what everyone of us does with every pick. Your focus on Griffin comes off as primarily trying to prove you were right and having little to do with evaluating the FO.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its really about who becomes the better player..

    of course Griffin had more of my focus, because imo he was going to be a steal..and was what I thought, a culture changer and a great prospect all wrapped in one.

    bottom line, of course I want to see if i was right and they were wrong, we all do that on some level..not sure why you have a problem with it, I will not be rooting against Baker for sure, and if you think that, then you would be very inaccurate.
     
  6. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I really like Griffin and hope he does well. I'm sure I'll track him, but I'm not going to make it about whether or not he turns out better than Baker. And I'm not going to try and show everybody how right I was by talking about him on a Dolphin board.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I care about how well our front office evaluates players, that’s dolphin board material, I see it as a good time to do that..
     
  8. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    I think something needs to be said about FO’s that have more job security and can make moves that are perceived to be greater risks than others. Prob not a concept you and most wouldn’t be thrilled with, lol... but I think you have to wonder if that is a factor. If you draft guys that are universally praised as “safe” (Minkah was one, Geiseki was a huge combine story, Baker was McShay’s top 3rd round pick thinking he could have gone in rd2, etc)... and they bust... you can pass the buck a little pointing to everyone that agreed with your evaluation.

    Fact is... Shaquem is the first player to be drafted in NFL history who only has 1 hand. There is a question about if he can succeed. Do I think that will matter a lick? Hell no, lol. However, there is always the uncertainty and/or fear of the unknown... and Quem represents that. A guy like Pete Carroll has the job security in place to be able to draft Shaquem, and even he didn’t pull the trigger until the 5th round. Meanwhile, the seats our FO/coaches are sitting on are starting to warm a little.

    I’m not saying right or wrong... just trying to determine the factors that led him to fall to the 5th when not a single stat/metric/measurable/performance/etc would correlate with that draft position.
     
  9. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's probably why you started a tracker for all of the draft picks like Minkah vs. James and Gesicki vs. Goedart...oh wait, you didn't do that. This is not so much about how the FO evaluates players and all about how you want people to see you were right about Griffin.
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your simply not getting it, but you like to think you do..

    Minkah vas James is not easy...

    Goedart vas Gisicki is not easy..

    Griffin vrs the field, for a need position, is.

    My anger stems from losing out on what I think is going to be a steal of a draft pick for my freakin team, it’s my opinion on my team, if he becomes a star and Baker does not, and you don’t care, then there’s no reason for you to pay attention to this thread, I’m not gonna feel bad for really having a conviction about a player, and be incredibly disappointed in our front office for not pulling the trigger on a specific position need.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is an exercise in scouting plain and simple..
     
  12. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No it's about your anger.They didn't pick your guy and you want to show that you were right. The other positions were also need positions and many felt strongly that the other guy was the easy choice. The only difference is your anger and your desire to prove you were right.
     
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  13. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I recognized that it would have to be a factor in when he went. That's why when some were pushing to spend a 2nd round pick I felt it was a poor read of the situation. I expected that he could easily be acquired in the 3rd or even the 4th.

    I don't know if the job security the FO felt was a factor. It's possible. It's certainly not difficult to imagine the jokes you'd hear if he failed. But I believe the film showed conclusively that he was a very good player. That should be the much bigger factor, but who knows?
     
  14. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic 30 years and counting Club Member

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    This is a silly thread DJ. I agree with Raf. your frustration boiled over and you started a thread on it. We get it. Your 2018 "windmill" was this kid. A lot of people would been excited to see us pick him in the mid-rounds. Tracking him so he can make you feel better makes you look silly. This thread is below you.
     
  15. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You damn strait I am and it is..

    The anger comes from the discrepancy in talent and instincts between Griffin and the field..

    Imo, in my head, They F##ked up at this point, and if what I think comes true someone should hold them accountable, and if he doesn’t spectate then I will be the first to admit I was an *** on this subject.

    He was the perfect pick for this franchise..

    I’m tired of passing on all pro, pro bowl, hall of fame players that were available for the taking..
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Im not denying I’m frustrated and angry, that’s the point of the thread..
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see your point.. no one has ever done it so that unknown scares them..

    So I should have compassion for their lack of balls? For a 4th round pick?
     
  19. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Nope. If you’re talented at evaluating/projecting... drafting certain players in order to avoid criticism vs being convicted about a player and sticking to it is not the path to success.

    Was just saying I wonder if that played a role based on which teams had more leeway to take a “risk” on an unknown...
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But you're only talking about one player here...that's sort of everyone's point. You can't claim to be objective and then say Griffin was the only player that mattered in the 3rd-4th round of the draft.
     
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  21. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I hope Griffin fails mightily, so I can rub it in everyone's faces here. There I said it.
     
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  22. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    ...aaaaaannnnndddd this is my fear with a thread like this, lol. Based on this, it sounds like you have always had doubts about his ability to succeed, which is why you'd be able to rub it in everyone's face? Is it the hand? Or something else? Or, are you just annoyed about the talk about him and now want him to fail b/c of that?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yes i can Key, we had a need and took a similar type player profile..

    whats the big deal, I want Baker to prove that Im wrong and be the better player or at least as good, because it benefits our team, if he doesn't and Griffin blows up like i think he will, then they blew the pick, bottom line, no?
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    one of the reasons I started this thread is because of comments like this questioning him pre draft and telling me that he isn't going to become what I think he is..

    The reasons why he should of been a dolphin are endless..

    teams who passed on will probably be sorry they did.

    if you don't like the thread Red you don't have to read it.
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree I drink your milkshake! Club Member

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    There's like these do cause some people enjoy the failures of players due to people like DJ being annoying and unreasonable.

    I find it harder to root for him to succeed after reading this thread
     
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  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    this all started because of some folks were telling us during the pre draft process, we only liked him because of his story, and we couldn't be objective because we were rooting for him, and that he isn't a great football player, and that we couldn't see past it, and that he isn't gonna make it because of his disability, and that we don't know what were looking at.

    thats whats annoying and unreasonable.check yourself if you have a problem with my appreciation for the player and the man.
     
  27. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    Ugh, please just ignore this thread man. It’s not Shaquem’s doing, lol... he’s just a lovable kid working his *** off and playing football.
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree I drink your milkshake! Club Member

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    Now I just hate him more
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he hates you too..
     
  30. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't have any issue with the thread. When he doesn't work out, I'll call you out on the nonsense of continuing this debate. I'll enjoy it mightily, as you and everyone else LOVE to brag about ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the hits you have in the draft, but rarely ever chatter about the misses.

    This is out loud and clear. I'll enjoy this.

    Good riddance to Griffin! Long live Jerome Baker!
     
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  31. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fin - definitely the talk about him. Honestly, I think what he accomplished, with that UCF team, was awesome. Absolutely awesome. Dude was a stud at UCF...but we didn't draft him. We haven't drafted a zillion players. I'm done talking about the dude.

    I absolutely want him to fail so I can come back here and rub it in everyone's faces that they were wrong about him...not you. You're an alum and want him to succeed. I do the same for the dudes drafted out of Marshall. I'm talking about guys who consistently love to talk about how they were right on this guy and they called it about this guy, like they're shooting at some 85% clip (which is BANANALAND and a LIE). With that, they've also attached themselves to Griffin, how good he will be and how wrong the Dolphins were about passing him up.

    So, when the Dolphins and Jerome Baker is good...and Griffin is not...I'm going to bask in that and discredit everyone involved. I'll enjoy every second of it.

    But you my man? We gucci. Root for him. Root for all the UCF players. If I'm wrong? What do I care? I never staked my claim that he would be good or bad. I just hope that he's bad, so I can bask in the joy of calling some people out.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I always admit when I’m wrong..and I hope that Baker is better..

    Back on track




    “Carroll said Shaquem Griffin appeared comfortable at weakside linebacker and that appears to be a good fit as his position going forward.

    12:39 - 6 May 2018
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  33. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm confused about all the disdain of this thread. I have no problem with it and can't understand why it bothers some people so badly.
     
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  34. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    People are inherently defensive about their own... and don't want it to turn out that their team made a big mistake. So, instead they root against players in hopes that ours are better.

    I've done it. I've found myself rooting against Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, etc b/c I wanted Tannehill to be the best QB from his draft class. I think its natural...

    I really dont think we should be comparing Baker to Griffin though. If anything, we should be comparing the decision to take a #2 blocking TE over Griffin. All the other players taken in the first 4 rounds are great... and while I understand the need for a blocking TE when the one we took in the 2nd isnt a blocker... I don't value a player like that over a dynamic, athletic, culture helping player like Griffin.
     
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  35. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess I just don't get it. I rarely root for an individual player to flat out fail. I do root against the other teams, however. And I do root against players who cheat, beat their wives, etc. etc.

    I think it was a mistake to pass over Griffin (That's my only son's middle name, BTW ;) ) for a TE after they already drafted Gesicki. However, I really hope Smythe turns out to be a stud, but I also am rooting hard for Griffin.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its personal between them and me, always has, I don't want it to be, I never had a problem with them, but, is what it is.... for myself, I like to post hits and misses and keep track, I have my reasons, some don't like that... I also like to keep track of what our front office does on their hits and misses, and on some occasions where the debate got heated or personal, I like to bring those cases back up, so if your gonna rag on my conviction, or the player in question, then I think its fair that its brought back up.

    I like to play the game of evaluation.. I like to compare, I like to know who I can trust and can't, and I do that by keeping a record.
     
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  37. Ohiophinphan

    Ohiophinphan Chaplain Staff Member Luxury Box

    This is also a "first time" thread as far as I can tell and change doesn't come easily to folks. Many here have rooted hard for college players from their favorite college teams, alma maters or even high schools. I was watching anxiously for Quinten Flowers of USF. He too has a compelling backstory and a remarkable college record. ESPN plunked a camera at his home and were, I am sure, well prepared to tell his tragic story one more time had he been drafted. The wall to wall coverage of the "Horatio Alger" story probably also made some folks cringe after a while.

    In the past no one has started a thread on this board to follow one of those players if they were signed by another NFL team. Is that wrong? Is it a bad thing? Not to me, though I wouldn't do it. Some folks however are clearly not enamored with that choice. I read everything that hits CLUB so I will be following though frankly I will likely just be skimming this thread unless something nasty crops up, then I will drop into "moderator" role.
     
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  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks for moving the thread here OP..
     
  39. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Club Member

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    My boy made the Official Madden '19 trailer, forcing a fumble against the Patriots at the 0:56 mark and thumping his chest at 1:15! Gotta say, they nailed the modeling of him too...

     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Damn it..

    I’m doing some work on Jamiyus Pittman because CK says he’s worth a long look for us, but I’ll be damned, I can’t keep my eyes off griffin, I mean the instincts and the defensive ability this young man possesses is elite stuff, I know most everyone isn’t as high as nasty and I, but with every inch of me, I am willing to bet this kid becomes a star defensive football player..

    I would of literally dropped a 2nd on him let alone a 3rd..

    How fast this kid recognizes something and gets to point B reminds me of when I looked hard at Earl Thomas..there is no-one better and quicker from point a to point b, but this kid relative to his position is special.He has a unique ability to change his angle to ball carrier instantly which eliminates space and time.

    There are gonna be a lot of sorry teams and a lot of wrong pundits and forum evaluators that said what they said about this player..
     
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