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Selecting a QB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    Following all the recent talk about replacing Tannehill as a QB, it's been interesting noting what might seem to be the significant/most relevant needs in a great QB. In short, if you have to evaluate any potential QB, it would seem that the most important thing is the mind of the QB.

    The knock that seems to be on Tannehill is that he has the physical tools and the work ethic and toughness but doesn't make the best decision often enough.

    Of course, physical tools are important, but if you can have all the tools and it's still enough, then the mind takes priority and you find you need that magical combination of both.

    Now how to evaluate that? I guess you'd have to look at a big picture of the decisions being made by any prospect, and how well they read defences. The problem is, the NFL is different to college, and how much is the coach and how much is the QB?

    I'm sure none of this is new, and if it were something simple it would be easy to pick great QB's.

    Still, I think it's worth pointing it out because the vast majority of QB discussions I see or hear talk about physical tools or even scheme fit over the mental aspect. How much more should and can that feature in evaluations?
     
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  2. tirty8

    tirty8 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, it all depends on who our coach is going to be. I think you have hit the nail on the head for the struggles of transitioning from college to the pros. It is really tough to tell who is smart and who isn't. I think that we need to look for traits that a particular coach values and find a viable option that checks as many of those boxes as he we can find. Remember Scott Linehan. That dude wanted to sling the rock down the field. A strong arm and a great deep ball is critical for his offense.

    If you look at Adam Gase, it is the complete opposite. Why is Brock Osweiler having so much success after being so dismal in Houston? Bill O'Brien wanted to push the ball down field much like Linehan, and Brock struggled. Adam Gase has a ton of speedy receivers. His grand vision is to have a QB that can make quick decisions, and rely on his receivers to eventually turn a small play into a big play. Brock has gotten the ball out quickly and has not taken many sacks. For the most part, he has kept us on schedule. Even after last game, people criticized him and said Wilson inflated his numbers. His critics do not understand, that is EXACTLY what our offense is designed to do. Get the ball out quickly, to Stills, Grant, Wilson, or Drake, and eventually they are going break off a huge play. In all honesty, Brock could be the answer if Gase is the coach. If not, we are looking for a QB that has good short to intermediate accuracy that can make very quick decisions. Gase tends to like mobility as well.
     
  3. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    It really depends on what you are looking for in a QB. If the idea is to get the next Rodgers, Brady or Brees it might take you eighty years to get one in the draft since colleges are no longer producing them. Mahones is probably the only QB to come out in the last decade who might reach that level. The QBs coming out now at best reach the level of Flacco or Stafford or Cousins. There has been a serious erosion of top level talent coming out of college. The reality is you have to build a complete team now. The 2016 version of Tannehill is in that 2nd level Flacco/Stafford grouping so as long as his shoulder problem isn't career threatening it makes no sense looking for another QB
     
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  4. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    Tannehill isn't in the same convo as Stafford or Cousins IMO.

    He is in that Dak Prescott, Bortles, Andy Dalton tier of guy's you BETTER have a great team around to have sustainable success.
     
  5. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Disagree completely. The 2016 version was just as good as these guys and he should get back there once the rust wears off so long as the shoulder isn't serious.
     
  6. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    I think we are at the 'can't stay healthy' portion of Ryan's career. You can't pay $26 million next year for a part-time QB.
     
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  7. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    He played well half the games he started. But I think it's obvious he can only recapture that magic in a game here and there.
     
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  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We have Luke Falk in the wing and he hasn't been in the NFL long enough to be tainted by idiots trying to change him. Nuff said...we have our guy of the future. =)
     
  9. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    The can't stay healthy argument could be valid if his shoulder problem doesn't heal soon. If he's back in a couple of weeks then I think we go into 2019 with Tannehill as the starter and address our lack of depth in the offseason
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Obviously the makeup, competitiveness, leadership qualities, intellect, and work ethic.

    Then watch for arm strength, quick processing\recognition and set up skills, vision of the entire field, the talent to navigate the pocket, the talent to escape and make plays with eyes downfield with their arm, and with their legs, the intellect to run on random plays when the defense vacates the middle of the field, touch.
     
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  11. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    College didn't produce Brady or Brees either. Even Rogers had to wait until the low first round. They are who they are not because of college but because of raw talent and NFL coaching and scheming.

    The college game has shifted heavily from what it was a decade ago, but the NFL is shifting too, and smart coaches and good QBs are harnessing the change to their advantage.
     
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  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member Club Member

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    How much of that/which ones do you think can be legitimately identified in college QBs?
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    See Andy Reid.
     
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  14. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Fell you on all that however I think that system is flawed. He’s looking for a care taker at QB. We need someone who can elevate and motivate the huddle. Not ever game but some games we need the QB to rise to the occasion instead of smiling hand saying we have to get better.

    The league is perfectly setup for QB’s to succeed yet we have an average one.

    I’m looking for someone with an attitude of success a little cocky, a leader who is burning to win inside, someone who’s got a quick read and pocket presence.

    Ah hell who am I kidding I just Marino Jr!
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Watch McKenzie Milton play Qb and don’t look at his size.
     
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  16. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    While I don't think Brock is the answer he does seem to fit the offense somewhat. He is making fast decisions and accurate throws. Tannehill lacks the former it seems. I have been one of the guys in Thills corner for quite awhile.

    We need a new QB. Thill despite the physical tools and everything else just doesn't make fast enough decisions. It's not him making bad decisions necessarily, just not fast enough and if he doesn't do it by now he's not going to.
     
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  17. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Well yeah, that was Marino. And he was an in your face guy if you did not do your job. Cant remember how many times I saw him blast guys on the sideline.
     
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  18. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    What? Wait! Are you just joshin around, or are you serious? I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. I just read Armando's article on the Dolphins philosophy on QB's, and I totally agree with him. Nothing against Falk, but I wouldn't let the fact that he is on our roster dictate what I do in the draft. If there is a franchise QB available, we have to take him and let the two compete. It's time to regroup. Maybe it's time for a total rebuild.
     
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  19. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    QBs need to be able to do 2 things.
    1) produce what the script says; and
    2) produce in chaos when the script breaks down.

    Tannehill is a QB who very good, bordering on excellent, at (1) but not so good at (2). Sometimes college QBs come along, for example Michael Vick, who are very good at (2) but not so good at (1) and they get over-rated because delivering on (1) is much easier in college than in the NFL.

    I don’t really care about arm strength as long as it is over the threshold for effective NFL play. When it comes to producing in chaos I prefer a QB who produces with their arm not their legs purely because of the injury risk, but as long as the QB shows a degree of awareness and self preservation (Russel Wilson good, RG III bad) then I can be on board with it.
     
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  20. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill isn’t in their company because what he did well in 2016 was done largely against inferior competition, in advantageous situations.

    When the competition stiffens or the situations become less advantageous, he typically doesn’t play like those quarterbacks. And that has obvious implications for playoff football.
     
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  21. josh

    josh Well-Known Member

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    #1 still calls for pre-snap reads and adjustments/audibles and then finding the open receiver during the play, and I would not say Ryan is that great at those tasks.
     
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  22. josh

    josh Well-Known Member

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    Football is entertainment. I’d be so much more entertained week in, week out by Baker Mayfield, than I would by Tannehill, but not because of his antics but rather his swag.
     
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  23. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    mayfield in his 1st year has more QB attributes than tannihill, ok lets here all the blah blah blah by everyone. Baker is going to be good in this league if the browns don't get him hurt i honestly think its todd haley putting too much on his plate. Out of college he has pre snap reads, he has a progression mentality and he can make every throw in the books. I sat on this forum 8 months ago when everyone was saying "if" baker is available grab him or if he is available i wouldn't grab him and my exact words were, "baker is not going to be available at 11" after the combine and team work outs i knew he was going to be a top 3 pick he was the best qb for the nfl in this class. baker has 2 wins 3 overtime games and 2 losses in his 5 games starting of a team that won 0 games last year. I was so high on Miami moving up to get him. Now we are going to settle for a second rate qb out of the draft this year in this not so highly touted class of qbs coming out of college and be in the exact same boat we have been sailing for 20 years. vicious cycle, i dunno maybe we can try out a kicker that converts to qb this time.
     
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  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know Gase really liked Falk out of all QB prospects last year (including Mayfield, Darnold, etc), plus everyone here has basically said that there is no franchise QB coming out in 2019. Combine the two and he's our best prospect for the near future.
     
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  25. bigballa2102

    bigballa2102 Well-Known Member

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    i really liked falk too, he was my second best for the pros just playing at washington state was going to hurt him. He needs time to learn, but learning behind RT is not going to help him much for the pros. His size and his arm are perfect he just needs someone to learn from and sorry to say no one in Miami even the QB whisperer gase (hahahah) isnt going to help him.
     
  26. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Remember brocks first 2 games were at home.Not a tannehill fan but tannehill plays much better at home than on the road.Lets see what brock can do in a hostile environment tonight
     
  27. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to move up also to get him.Never been a tannehill believer.Sick of the same old groundhog day routine.We needed a leader the team could believe in.
     
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  28. Dolphins1372

    Dolphins1372 Guest

    Please draft a qb. Keep brock and falk. Then draft some big lineman on both sides of the ball.
     
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  29. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    We need someone who can build an offense around whatever QB we select instead of trying to fit the QB into the offense they want.
     
  30. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    WHAT!?!?!?!?!?!?!? We have been doing that since Shula left. We do need a rebuild, but I do not think it is on the field. We need an owner with the necessary male genitalia to can the managerial leadership of the team! I doubt the current upper level could pour water out of a boot if the directions were on the heel - beginning with the general manager!
     
  31. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    Excellent point.
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I tell you what, I don’t trust Tannehill at all on the road in a hostile environment dealing with a comprimised pocket, he’s never proven he can do it.

    We’ll see what Brock can do.
     
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  33. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I 100% agree with you
     
  34. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    I wasn't really talking about them, but I agree. However, I would be okay with keeping Greer though. At least I think I would be. Tannenbaum can go. Ross, love his loyalty and commitment, but he needs to get someone in here who knows what the heck they are doing. I think he is hurting us because he has a win now mandate and perhaps we could have made better choices and built the team right if we had a little more time. I get it because the dude probably doesn't have much time left before one of his family members inherits the team.
    As for the team itself, my idea of a regrouping would be to overhaul the OL (OG, OC, RT) and DE and LB. I only mentioned a rebuild in case we sign a defensive minded coach who prefers the 3-4. Not sure if that scheme is antiquated because big LB's who can run are getting harder and harder to find, it seems. And since the league is going small and fast they might not be as effective. That said, I am intrigued with that scheme and sort of would welcome something different than what we have been running. Let's switch things back to old school and go with a 3-4 defense, and bring in a big FB on offense. Nothing like running the ball down their throat and daring them to stop it! :-)
     
  35. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Well brock was brock tonight.Of course the dolphins defence was the dolphins defence also.Can't stop anybody.
     
  36. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    We need to find some new "No Names." We have some parts, but not enough!
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We found out what I already know, their both career backups..sometimes they can play well for stretches..but eventually the pressure will get them.
     
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  38. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From PFT:

    The Vikings are now 4-3-1, and while Cousins has completed 70.7 percent of his passes, he's averaging a career-worst 7.39 yards per attempt with 16 touchdowns and four interceptions. The performance is enough for Bleacher Report's Mike Freeman to label Cousins an "$84 Million Flop."
     
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  39. Fin-O

    Fin-O Initiated Club Member

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    16 TD's 4 INT is not in the same conversation as 8 TD's and 5 INT if you ask me.

    Who the hell would ever say, "yea man, give me Tannehill over Cousins!!!!"

    A few Dolphins fans round this board, and that's likely about it.
     
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