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Sean Sailsbury:Henne will be good, but not Elite Qb.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/

    I referenced this conversation the other day as Sean Sailsbury is one of the very few NFL "analyst" types whose opinion I respect, far more so than Ron Jaworski (who is consistently wrong).

    I also agree with his take on Henne being a 18 for 27 type of Qb where I disagree with him is some Qb's learning curve is slower than others, some guys have to play and make small incremental improvements and others get it from Day 1, Henne to me is the former, but if he can keep you in games and learn while doing so his ceiling has not been established.:up:


    Audio file at link, listen for yourself
     
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you mean salisbury still has a job somewhere...lol...at the end of his espn career, his face looked like he was doing soy shots at benihana's all night..

    I do think he's right about needing playmakers around him....he has great arm talent, but no athletic ability to put that arm into position to make plays on his own.

    Padre has been talking about it alot..his skillset needs more weapons.
     
  3. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I don't agree with that at all.

    I would say he needs a better feel for the pocket.

    If you remember, one of his best plays is the roll out pass on the run.

    He is athletic, more so than Pennington.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The fact that he no longer works at BSPN should be seen as a net plus Deej, Salisbury is a candid analyst, that is unacceptable at BSPN.

    Besides, in 08 he was the ONLY BSPN analyst who saw our playoff run coming, that is yet another reason why I listen to his opinion on players over those of guys like Jaworski who blows sunshine to often.

    Good audio Deej, recommend the listen.:up:
     
  5. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't agree with that. Pennington is actually a pretty decent scrambler. Chad Henne is not good at buying time when the pocket collapses. A designed rollout is one thing, from what I remember Penny was better at evading rushers long enough to make a play and at actually scrambling for first downs sometimes. He's no Michael Vick but I do think he has more athletic ability. Henne has brought back memories of Drew Bledsoe at times. Just my opinion from watching them play. Penny's arm is weak but his legs work just fine.
     
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  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not any longer NJ, the waggle was money for Henne in 09 in 10 it was easily defended the patriots in particular feasted on it with 2 interceptions.

    He was sacked 12 times so his pocket feel was not Ken O'Brienish, his problem is when he checks down the receiver isn't going anywhere, Fasano is not scaring anyone, neither is Bess, put a McCluster type down there and the equation changes.
     
  7. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Like I said, Pennington has a better pocket awareness, but Henne is more athletic than Penny and faster.

    Your talking about experience and smartness, Marino wasn't a very good athletic QB, but could feel the rush and one little slide made all the difference. Penny does the same thing.

    Can Henne learn that? I don't know.
     
  8. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Again, that is pocket awareness, not athletic ability. Even Jake Long admits he has been under to much pressure from the rush, its a feel that he has not developed yet, Can he develop that awareness? I don't know.
     
  9. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nothing I have seen in a game backs that up. I was talking about Penny actually being quicker and a faster runner. At least it appears that way when plays break down.
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He can roll out to the right and release NJ, {very accurate when doing so} but imo that does not determine his level of athletic ability, Its very minimal imo..Pennington has some run instincts and some moves that Henne doesn't come close to..

    The thing about Pennington is, that when he remembers to keep the scramble in his repetoire during a game, his overall game is so much more effective..when he gets in trouble is when he forgets to run and scramble..he, the staff, MUST keep this fresh in his mind before every drive, it is crucial to his game.
     
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  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That is true, Chad Henne is possibly the slowest Qb I've seen since Bernie Kosar, in the Vikings game he barely made it out of the endzone on a rollout and the defenders were out at the 12 yd line, Henne barely made it out to the 2 yd line.

    Do think he is a better athlete than Drew Bledsoe though, Drew was..oblivious in the pocket and often suffered kill shots by defenders Henne has more pocket presence.

    Salisbury talking about Henne's inconsistency is worth the listen as he is seeing what fans without agendas are seeing, he is wildly inconsistent and does not make the players around him better at the moment.
     
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  12. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Boy, I just don't see it, scrambling comes from awareness of the situation, not athletic ability (Unless your Vick). Penny is not very Athletic, he is smart and has great instincts and is a leader, that's what makes him good, athletic ability is way down on his list.

    Henne's short comings is his awareness, not his athletic ability at all.
     
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  13. SRM

    SRM New Member

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    I do agree that Pennington is more athletic and a better scrambler, but I also remember him ducking down and protecting himself when he still could have made a throw.
     
  14. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sometimes you have to make a business decision I guess. I didn't even fault Henne for sliding short of the marker last week because if he would have went the extra three yards Ray Lewis probably would have murdered him.
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol, dont get me wrong, I would not catergorize Penny as being athletic, just that he's higher on the list than Henne.

    Your concerns about Henne in the pocket are valid, Iam worried too, and I think thats due to a lack of foot speed and athletic cordination..
     
  16. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And that's where we disagree, its from awareness and feel, not athletic ability.
     
  17. Southbeach

    Southbeach Banned

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    I have watched each of Henne's games at least twice. After seeing all the good and bad, I look at the Pitt game as a measuring stick. He was 23-36, 257, 1 TD, 1pick, and a 94.3 rating.

    This was not his best game but, to me, a defining moment. He played really well vs the best D in the NFL in a close game. He was not prime time but, close.

    I also see where Marshall believes he will be an All Pro. Everyone knows that players are gonna say good things about another who has lost their job. However, Marshall could have very easily said that Henne would be a good NFL QB.

    I still believe that Henne is going to star in this league. JMO.
     
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  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Sorry SB, Chad Henne did not throw an interception in the Steelers game.

    Wr's pump Qb's, that is in the job description, the Qb feeds the Wr's it is in their interests to stay in the Qb's good graces.

    But that stat line 250 yds, 1 TD, is more or less what Salisbury was speaking about, Henne is good, not elite, he did not torch them for 350, he had a good, not great, game.
     
  19. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Henne has not thrown for 3 TDs in a game yet. He's only thrown for 2 TDs without an accompanying INT once. That doesn't mean that he won't, or can't, just that he hasn't.
     
  20. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    i don't care if he is elite .... i absolutely believe he can and will be at least as good as Big Ben ... and started to show that in the PIT game -- less deep throws, which will come.

    I'm not looking for Rivers, Manning or even Brady .... which i think given the right circumstances he could come close to a fringe Brady.

    What i have maintained that i don't like about the coaching of Henne, is when i look at Ryan -- i don't see a guy with 'touch' passes ... and i also don't see a guy hitting his guys in stride -- they have to reach high above the shoulders to make catches ... but the point is -- his WRs do .... nearly every time.

    Henne didn't need to learn 'touch' .... a la Pennington ... he needed to learn how to drop the medium pass in between the LBs and DBs ... that and learning to get air under the long pass are to me and remain his throwing shortfalls right now. Reading defenses i can't comment on -- few of could, because we just don't know what the play call was, regardless if there was an open WR.

    Diatribe aside, i understood that the FO wanted to win this year -- and that's why they kept CP around .... so the change right now isn't terribly shocking, but still don't think its the right thing to do with the easy part of the schedule up next. But i also understand that Henne just isn't going to become what i believe he can in this particular environment.

    the most glaring thing Henne needs is what EVERY successful QB in the league right now has ... a reliable TE, i did believe that Marshall coming into the fold would help spring Fasano -- but besides the drops and emphasis on blocking, it just hasn't worked out that way.
     
  21. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    A good game against the Pitt d ... almost like a great game :up:
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Defenses are not going to prevent against Henne in the 4th qtr, if anything I'd bet they move up closer to the LoS squeezing his throwing windows further.

    Imho that is a function of some drops, and some lack of deep passing late in the game, nursing leads Henne just won't take chances..or step on throats.
     
  23. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well Sean Salisbury knows a thing or two about being a backup in the NFL.
     
  24. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    I've often said the same thing about Henne; that he probably would be good but not great. Probably.

    I now feel that we'll never really know what Henne could have been. I feel strongly that this staff has wasted his crucial first three offseasons without developing him significantly beyond how he came out of Michigan, and that this may well have "stunted" Henne's development with an impact that will persist throughout his career.

    Congratulations to Sparano, Lee, Henning and company on taking a kid with a cannon arm, from a major college program, and failing to develop him in three years much past what he brought to the table to begin with. That's quite a feat.
     
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  25. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    :up: Nabo -- I for one am of the same belief !
     
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  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, disagree, Henne has developed into Gus Frerotte not Brady Quinn, he has retained his accuracy but his decision making process is not up to par.

    "If" say Penny wins the next 4 games and then goes down, I would have no qualms if Henne stepped back in as the Starting Qb.
     
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  27. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree Pennington is a better QB than Chad Henne. :up:

    Henne wishes he was Drew Bledsoe, that QB was AWESOME in his prime. Silly to even compare the two.

    The REAL comparrison to Chad Henne is AJ Feeley. Great arm, no pocket presence, no touch on the passes. Although, I think Feeley had better leadership qualities, and better command of the offense then Henne did.
     
  28. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not even close, Feeley was wildly inaccurate, went down easily and turned the ball over too easily.
     
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  29. R&R_Express

    R&R_Express New Member

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    how can you respect anything about sailsbury after he got caught flashing his go workers repeatedly at work and got fired for it....
     
  30. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Henne is the better QB than Feeley, that's not close. You do your best with him until the opportunity to get someone better comes along. Jason Campbell I honestly have to say is an intriguing QB. He has outplayed Henne so far, he's mobile, has a good arm and nowhere near the offensive line. Draft a TE for him like Rudolph, sign Micheal Bush, Leon Washington, and maybe Logan Mankins and I think he'd be a star.
     
  31. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    I'm not saying that Henne's terrible or anything. But to be more than a journeyman - to be "the guy" to a team in the NFL, a QB who can put the team on his shoulders and take them above and beyond their limitations, you have to be significantly better than Henne is.

    And the core point is that this might forever be beyond Henne's reach because of how this staff has failed to develop him in this crucial initial period of his career.
     
  32. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    That's an insult to Chad Henne. AJ Feeley was Tyler Thigpen without the mobility.

    And leadership quality? Really?
     
  33. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Let's put it this way. At this point Henne is Woodley. We're waiting on Marino. Until an excellent QB prospect comes along, Henne should be the guy for better or worse. He can improve over what he is now, I have no doubt about that.

    But seriously Jason Campbell I think can be one heck of a QB if given the right tools.
     
  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, if Ricky and Ronnie were playing better, can the same thing be said?

    The collapse of the running game is the most shocking aspect of this season, a young Qb requires a running game to move the offense and it just has not been there this season Nabo.

    Now it is fair to ask whether playing great run defending teams that do not defend the pass as well as they do the run plays a part in that, but that is inside Davie stuff that we will never know.
     
  35. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    I don't want to disagree with Salisbury because I fear he might come to my house and yell at me.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    As long as Mike Vick is being praised I have no problem with Sean Salisbury's opinions being fodder for discussion.

    Especially when there are Dolfans openly advocating to sign Mike Vick..glass houses and stones and all that...
     
  37. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    But that's just a circumstance, and circumstances will change numerous times over a QB's career.

    My point is about the big picture of Henne; he may well be ill-equipped to handle whatever comes due to this coaching staff's failure to develop him much past what he was when he came out of college.
     
  38. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

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    Our whole team was one giant s**tturd when we had Feeley. Chad Henne would have gotten injured behind that horrible Oline too. Do you really see Henne coming back and winning that game on Monday Night Football at home against the Cheatriots like Feeley did to save our dignity that year? I sure don't.

    Chad Henne = AJ Feeley. Either one is a good backup in the NFL.
     
  39. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Here's the deal. This team needs to establish an identity for what kind of QB they want in the off-season. They need a system, a QB, and a purpose. No more Henne becoming Chad Pennington. No more try be a deep ball offense without a deep ball threat bull****.You want to become a short passing team like the 2004 Patriots? That's fine, get a QB that can do that for you. You want a QB with mobility? Go get that. Just no more random BS. Seneca Wallace? (performed above average for five straight years on five straight crappy teams).

    Honestly this should be a job I played wants to play for, not just a little... BADLY. Draft a TE, sign a RB, and a scatback, perhaps sign Mankins. As a quarterback you can't ask for better. You just can't. Bradford is doing that much more with so much less, but that's why he went #1 overall. He's that good. (In fact he's the best QB for this system, well any system then again).
     
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  40. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    It's funny now when people make post about the young hot QB's in the NFL, Henne is never on the list.

    ESPN just had one after Thursdays game.
     

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