Salguero: Ireland told his job is safe

What good is cap space when you are horrible at judging who to spend it on and are more than willing to overspend that cap space?

Do you think signing Brent Grimes offsets the decision to sign Mike Wallace to an overpriced contract?

 

So, let me get this straight. He misses on Dallas Thomas, but we give him credit for Sam Brenner, whom he cut to keep Dallas Thomas on the roster? Why wasn't Brenner on the roster to begin with? We know the coaching staff thought highly of Sam Brenner during training camp, and the actions of the coaches during the season show that they don't think so highly of Dallas Thomas. To me, the coaches deserve more credit for Brenner, as they wanted him on the roster from the very beginning.

What move was made to offset the poor decision to sign Mike Wallace?

 

Well the additions et all that led you to believe in a 9 and 7 record is all on Ireland and I take it that mediocrity is ok and reason to be retained , and that an upswing even a small tick ( as this would be ) should enable Ireland to yet again keep his job ?

With respect , it isn't for me . Always can be excuses if we want , or we simply can draw a line in the sand and see if we get past it. Playoffs and a playoff win for me , but I am not kidding myself to believe that if we finish 9 and 7 and make the playoffs and lose , Ireland gets to do more of the same.

Do you think he is the GM that will lead Miami to the SB? and if so , by when? Not if he has done some things ok , or that there MAY be some extenuating circumstances , and we have a minor uptick. Thought for sure this was the drop dead date , he's had more than enough time and chances to produce imho.

 

you always suprise me with where your heads at 22..always interested in your thoughts, cool freakin dude..

So you think your better than me because you want more than a playoff birth in the 2nd year of a head coach and Qb?

Jk..

I don't know about you, but I'm not looking for one hit wonders, I'm looking to build a dynasty...do I think Ireland is the guy to do it.?.. I'll say this..

Every ending has a new beginning, and your never gonna know how that beginning ended if you don't give it a fair timeline, I guess we differ on where that timeline should start, there are so many dynamics that need to come together, dynasties are not built in 2nd years of tenures..for me all HIS and Philbins players are in their 2 nd and third years, this is the only way I know how to judge considering the limited info we have, if these 2nd and third year players produce this 10 and 6 record in the fashion they did, I'm gonna give him another year to find out..

 

Does it really not mean a whole hell of a lot that were are only behind the browns and the jaguars in cap space??

Are we just blowing that off because we have a good amount of free agents, are we not taking into account everyone has free agents.?

 

most important off-season in recent memory with all the picks and cap space and what did Ireland accomplish exactly? we're getting virtually nothing from the draft class and of all the free agent signings the only one that has really panned out is Grimes. Wallace, Ellerbe, Wheeler, Clabo, Lance Louis, Vaughn Martin, all have been disappointing and regretful decisions.

 

We need to see if they go 4 and 0 in December LB to decide that is wasn't a success?

 

Short term pain for long term gain , you have heard me say that several times , so I am all for dynasty building. Just have to be confident that is what you are doing. You are confident as others are , others such as myself aren't . Either side could be right , only one will be . So far we know which side is correct ...to date ...

I made a post in another thread about whether we should take anything from the oline being better after Martin and Incognito being subtracted as it seems was Philbin's want and not per Ireland. You made note this is year two for 17 and the coaching regime , which of course is accurate but far from it for Ireland. Here is something , now I don't put nearly the effort into scouting or analyzing the draft as many do here but I do certainly more than follow it . I also can recognize talent , have made some good calls , have made some bad ones. I really thought this draft was positive , but hard for anyone to say it has produced positively to date.

Yes , we can't give a final grade but we can grade whether that draft has helped us win games this year , to date. We should have had more contributions imo . When you are hovering at a playoff appearance or failing for yet another year , that is not insignificant is it? To me it isn't anyway.

Then you add the other aspects , such as being fan friendly , having players really behind you as a leader , being truly connected with your coaching staff , making more positive decisions than not in FA , just far too many negatives and more questions then answers. At least for me , and again , I have no confidence we will get to the SB with Ireland leading us. So if that is what an owner also feels then why delay the inevitable and just make the wait longer. I will be extremely happy if he is the right one and we do have true success , won't be ticked off in the least that I was wrong. Have been before , will be again .

Just have the raw , gnawing feeling that if we finish 9 -7 , out of the playoffs, it will be deemed "enough" and we then go through next year hoping . It isn't that I don't think we have some talent or can have enough if we add properly to be a consistent playoff team , I just feel that even if an Ireland led team does get close to that level , we could have another GM that would provide more success , and not if all went right, but given the same opportunities and situations I believe we would be noticeably ahead of where we are with another GM. He obviously has some ability but imo not enough.

Enough from me ( at least for now ) about Ireland , we have a HUGE game against NE and I love being in December and knowing we can determine our own fate , and that we could finally be relevant again. Going to concentrate on that , and if we beat NE , then I won't be able to stop myself from being excited in mid December with 2 games left against our division rivals.

Cheers DJ.

 

What good is that cap space when all you are doing is overpaying Mike Wallace with it?

 

KB,

Come on man....tell me you wont be loving yourself some Mike Wallace if he goes off on the Pats this weekend.

 

I wouldn't be for this move even if he played like Josh Gordon the rest of the way.

 

Yeh..but I didn't say for this move...but anyways.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

I don't agree that he's had six years. I think it's obvious to anybody being objective that Parcells was making most of the decisions early on. About the only area we know Ireland was in charge of throughout was the UDFAs. And Parcells was still controlling who Ireland was allowed to have on his draft board until he left. Ireland admitted that. Even after that, I would give anybody who had a radical scheme and coaching change time to see if he can fit players to that scheme. The linemen that Sparano wanted are the complete opposite of the ones that Philbin wanted. When you make that change you have to start the OL rebuild again (except for a great, scheme diverse player like Pouncey). I would consider the players that were brought in prior to the scheme change, (but after Parcells left). If these players left and played well in other schemes then obviously, they had the talent. Talent assessment wasn't the problem.

 

More Salguero:

Wonder if we will even get a late rounder... I wouldn't personally want him on my team

 

So you are saying that Jeff didn't have a voice in his first three years?

With the new coach, Jeff has used two high round draft picks on offensive linemen....Jonathan Martin and Dallas Thomas. Martin proved he was ill fit and couldn't play, and Thomas can't even see the field despite a rash of injuries. The fact is, neither player was a good fit for a zone blocking scheme. Where did the wires get crossed? Jeff had multiple chances to draft David Bakhtiari, who was a great fit for zone blocking. Both Con and I identified him as a player the Dolphins should be interested in prior to the draft. He's been the best rookie lineman in the league this year. I wouldn't doubt that Jeff felt Dallas and David were similar players. He thought that Jonathan Martin and Cordy Glenn were similar players afterall, when they couldn't be more different.

 

They would be lucky to get a bag of footballs. Not only can the guy not play. He's now seen as a pariah.

 

Not at all. I stated before the season that the issue for me was the talent level on the team and how I thought they were poised to compete going forward. I see a young, ascending team that has blue chip talent at key positions. IMO QB is easily the most important position. I think we have an elite level talent there. The coaches have admitted that they've been handcuffing him for the purposes of development. I think that impacts the record, but the talent level is clearly there. The next most important position is pass rusher. Wake is one of the few players from the Parcells' era that we know was an Ireland decision. We have OV, whom I don't see as an elite talent, but is a red chipper and a guy who is garnering pro bowl consideration this year. And we have Jordan, who I do see as an elite level talent. We also have what is arguably the best DT rotation in football with Soliai, Starks and Odrick. These guys also provide interior pass rush pressure. We'll probably lose Starks after this year, but should maintain one of the best DLs in the league. The next most important positions are S, TE and WR. At S we have Jones, who was a top 5 S last year. This year he struggled early on (I think Coyle changed his responsibilities), but according to PFF has been rebounding over the second half of the season. Clay has clearly played at a top 5 at his position level this year and is garnering pro bowl consideration. I don't see a #1 WR on the roster, but I would classify Wallace as a red chip talent. And I think Hartline, Gibson and Matthews are all at least good talents. I have stated since before his draft that I believe Matthews has #1 WR potential. I don't list CB as a priority position, but that's a minority opinion. By just about every measure Grimes has been a top 5 at his position player this year. I also believe that C is the most important position on the OL and that Pouncey is a top 5 at his position talent. IMO that's a team with the talent to be a perennial contender. It will obviously depend primarily on RT's development, but with an elite young QB and the young talent we have on defense that is clearly a team that most would say is poised to be a contender. Most fans can't think beyond the record though. They see 9-7 as just over .500 and ignore where the team is heading. A 9-7 team with a young elite level QB and a young defense with top 5 potential is a progressing team. That is not a team that is treading water.

 

It's a good point about Brenner, it seems the staff is higher on him than Thomas at this point, doesn't mean long terms that will be the case...Philbin complimenting Brenner, says he noticed early in some minicamp practices that he moved like a football players, watched his punch and footwork, says he was on target, compact..

Here's the misconception you have with me, you think I'm pro ireland, I'm not, I'm open to reassess based on 10 and 6, because regardless of some folks like 22 and you where 10 and 6 is not good enough..I'm open to breaking down every transaction and acquisition to see if the ratio is on a good curve..if not the I'll read between the lines that the coach puts out..

Bottom line, you must respect this run if finished, it deserves the open mind.

 

No, he had a voice, but that doesn't mean all the decisions were his, nor does it mean he could have gone after players he preferred because they were poor fits for Parcells system.

I don't even know why that is still an area of contention.

Since Parcells however, he's shown a complete lack of understanding of ZBS lineman and has missed terribly on those. That and not giving Philbin what he wants is reason enough to fire him, but let's stop pretending he had complete control with Parcells here. It cheapens the argument to fire him.

 

I used to know people in the Dolphins FO back when Huizenga still owned the team and I know for a fact that Ireland's choice for the #1 overall was Matt Ryan, but that Parcells preferred Long. Ireland obviously went along, but it's clearly not who he would have picked. That first year Parcells made almost all of the picks. After that Brandt, a close friend of Parcells, reported that every year Parcells made a few picks himself. We don't know which picks or exactly how many, but Parcells was making picks. Ireland also admitted on a radio interview I heard that every year Parcells took players off of Ireland's draft board. We obviously don't know how many or which ones, but clearly whatever voice Ireland had those first three years was very limited.

As for individual picks, any team can be criticized. Fact is that about half will fail. IMO Martin's play style is a good fit for a zone blocking scheme. I never thought he'd be a great player, but the play style was a fit. Thomas is a guy that was highly praised by many draft gurus here right after the pick. Whether he sees the field can be based on coaching decisions and player's speed of development, but anybody who has watched the NFL knows that it's unwise to make any final judgements part way through a players rookie season. An obvious example would be Clay, who developed slowly and is now garnering pro bowl consideration.

 

Dallas Thomas is a bust now? There is no way you can judge anyone from this class at this point. There are people that judged guys like Charles Clay, Olivier Vernon, Reshad Jones, Nolan Carroll, Chris Clemons, Ryan Tannehill, etc. during their rookie seasons. Those people ended up being completely wrong.

The reality is that Jeff Ireland shouldn't be judged on the 2013 draft at juncture. He should be judged on the 2011 and 2012 drafts at this point. Those classes are turning out to be very, very strong.

 

That's a key point. I was against bringing in Parcells. I hated many of the decisions made during that time. And I lumped Ireland and Parcells together as they always trumpeted their "one voice" policy. But the fact of the matter is that I kept hearing of instances where Ireland had little or no say. I realized it would be flat out dishonest of me to blame Ireland for things he couldn't control. I still blamed Ireland for the media policies that continued after Parcells left and for what I view as poor treatment of players (things like holding on to Sage for a perceived advantage when you know you're hurting an individual's career). But I have liked the drafts since Parcells left better. Not all the picks obviously, (maybe not even most), but there's was obviously a better plan in place. A plan that emphasized what I've been arguing for years, that you win in this league by passing and defending the pass better than your opponents. I liked that the team didn't by the hype and draft Mallet that first year or trade for a QB and I believe they made the right choice in RT. I like that they've focused on pass rushers, ball hawks and receiving targets in the draft and FA. I have not agreed on all the selections, but the plan, a modern plan, is finally there.

 

There are valid points on the table, KB as well, but I'm not sure how you can be so sure that 10 and 6 doesn't change some things.

 

Insert pic of ham sandwich.

 

The guy was by far the worst lineman on the team in training camp and preseason, and he has all of 2 snaps despite the fact that this team has had to piecemeal the offensive line together. If the coaches thought highly of him, he'd play. Like I said though, Sam Brenner is clearly better, but somehow, Jeff should get credit for him despite the fact that he cut him to keep Dallas Thomas on the roster.

 

Do you blame Parcells then for Jeff asking an inappropriate question to Dez Bryant? How does Jeff escape the blame for the shame put on the franchise and the way they treated Tony Sparano by tripsing across the country to talk to a coach before you have fired your current head coach? Is there any doubt that Jeff said inappropriate things in this Jonathan Martin/Richie Incognito thing? Not only is the guy a mediocre GM, but he's a black eye for a once great organization.

 

It's what is splitting this board on this topic.

Way to much logic and instances to indict Ireland the first three years..on the big stuff.

Here's what scares me Rafs..

Jon Martin..Eric Steinbach..Les brown..Clyde gates...John Jerry...Clabo..all for different reasons football related, poor evaluations..

I guess Clabo is playing better..but my point is can we overlook these fundamentally flawed public evals for the Cam wake..Odrick..Misi..Jordan..Tannehill..R jones..Clemmons..Jimmy Wilson..Nolan Carroll..OV..

 

How did Brenner get on the roster in the first place?

Jeff Ireland signed him after the draft.

 

If you do what you are suggesting, then you would never fire a GM, period. You can go through and pick out great moves and lousy moves made by every GM in the league and convince yourself that he should be kept.

Here's what I want to know. Name me a GM that has kept his job after 6 years that has Jeff's record from a wins and losses standpoint, lack of playoff berths, and overall transaction record. Mike Tannebaum had a better overall record and built a team that went to the AFC Championship game twice. He was fired.

 

Credit goes to Adam Engroff, the Dolphins best scout.

 

No, I blame Ireland for those gaffs (although the Sparano thing is mostly on Ross). I have always been critical of Ireland for his handling of the press and players. That's why I don't consider myself an Ireland backer. I just don't agree that his talent assessment is poor. I think that considering the circumstances and what the decisions we know he made that his talent assessment is actually pretty good.

 

Clabo is the only one of those I was behind. Jerry sounded to me like a pick to appease Sparano. Martin I thought could become "good enough" absent the mental issues. On balance though I see a pretty good track record compared to most. I would probably add Clay to the mix, but I'm not sure if he gets credit for Jones. In the early years Ireland made most late picks, but I have no info on whether Jones was his decision. He does get credit for resigning Jones though. I also see guys like Bess and the signings of Bush and Grimes as standouts. Honestly, I think that if Tannehill had been picked a year or two earlier then team would have a better record and most would be praising the Dolphins for their great drafts. People get blinded by the record and can't see the talent. You saw the opposite in NE. They had a long stretch where their drafts were horrid, but nobody noticed b/c Brady kept them winning and they had the SBs from earlier. IMO Miami has had more talent at most positions than NE that last several years. But NE had more talent at key positions, so they won. I think Miami has improved the talent at the key positions. And I think Philbin understands what those key positions are far better than Sparano did. I think that the coaching staff has handcuffed some of that talent and that we might have a better record know if they hadn't. But maybe, at least with RT, it will have a long-term benefit. I just don't think it's fair to punish Ireland for that.

 

I think his talent assessment is average at best though not on the Millen level some seem to claim, but his roster management overall is very poor, and his personality is awful. Bottom line, he should not be untouchable no matter what. I think a strong finish here earns him a fair and positive evaluation rather than an almost certain canning, but Jeff Ireland is in no way an irreplaceable or vital member of this organization. We can probably do worse, but we can probably do better as well. I just don't think we will get over the hump with him in charge of building this team, and his gaffes are an organizational embarrassment that don't need to happen.

 

This is HS cafeteria stuff. The entire NFL was talking about Bryant's parents at the combine. The argument that Jeff should be fired because of the Harbaugh thing is inherently flawed because Jeff works at the behest of the person who made that choice. And yes, there is doubt that Jeff said anything inappropriate in the Martin/Incognito thing. There is no evidence that supports that theory.

 

I can't do that because he got the job under under conditions where it's hard to judge his record while Parcells was here..

 

That is correct. Nobody on this forum will ever fire a GM, period. Nobody on this forum has 1/10th of the necessary information to make an informed decision. The people with the requisite information are the ones that will make the decisions, not people throwing darts and coming up with fairy tales on forums. We can talk about what happens on the field, and how players play, etc. But trying to assign blame and praise to middle management for an opaque process is pretty silly and pointless. Its absolutely ridiculous for people here to be debating who wanted Brenner or who decided to cut him. The theories stated are completely unfounded. They are duck tales.

 

I would agree that he's not untouchable or irreplaceable and the PR gaffs have always bugged me, but I don't agree that we won't get over the hump with him here. IMO a team with a great young QB and a very good to great young defense is going in the right direction. Once those are in place getting over the hump will be mostly about the QB's development and how well the coaches do their jobs. The holes that are left (other than LT) are mostly the kind you fill with later round picks and UDFA. That's one area where even most critics admit Ireland's done well with.

 

Doing exactly that I would have fired Parcells.

Off the top of my head, Graves in Arizona. He's been there forever it seems and the GM since 2007. I don't think Arizona has been above 10 wins and has generally been about 8-8. Currently they're one win better than us and given the age of their QB I would feel more positive about Miami's future than Arizona's.

 

Whatever.

Remind me of this if Ireland is kept and this organization continues to be a poorly run organization that is mediocre on the field.

 

Rod Graves was fired this year. Steve Keim is their GM.