Salguero: Ireland told his job is safe

And virtually no NFL player wins every matchup, even against less talented players.

 

IMO we have a talented team. I think that in the two years Philbin has been here there has been a switch in personnel to the kind of players he likes. I see that as the opposite of there being some disconnect between the coaches and the F.O. I think we have the talent on defense to be a top 5 defense. I think they've underachieved a bit this year. I put that more on the coaches than on the F.O. Specifically, I think we arguably have the best DL in the league. I think our secondary is at least top 10, arguably top 5. If Patterson could stay healthy it might not even be an argument. I think the F.O. targeted and brought in the right QB. Given time I believe he has top 5 potential. I think that a WR/TE group of Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, Matthews, Keller and Clay would be a top 10 group. Our LBs have been a disappointment but they have still been about average. I think Ellerbe has top 8 or so talent, but hasn't acclimated. I see weakness on the OL and to a lesser extent RB. I do think we have an elite C. I do, however, believe the OL is starting to gel. The Ts have been good enough over the last four games or so and I think Brennan (SP?) may be a good fit at G. I'm not one of those who believes that the whole OL has to be rebuilt. In fact, in my experience that rarely works. The best OLs are those that work well together rather than those with the most #1 picks. I would like to add a couple of FA OL and draft a couple (one in the first or second), but I don't expect all of those to stick. I'd be thrilled if we just replaced Jerry and had one guy who looked like a future LT. I would also like to add a RB in the second to fourth round. I have a higher opinion of DT than most, but I've always seen him as replaceable. I'd also like to upgrade Clemons at S. He's actually been decent this year, but I'd like a guy with better ball skills back there. Lastly, I wouldn't mind a TE if we don't bring back Keller.

Basically, what I'm saying is that this is a pretty good team. They have elite level talent at QB, pass rushers, C, DT, TE, CB and maybe S. Some of that talent is still developing (QB, pass rusher and TE), but we've certainly seen enough to know they have very high potential. I think we also have good talent/depth at WR, LB (although at LB I'd say talent, but not depth) and the rest of the secondary (Grimes is in the elite category, Jones is the maybe). I see holes on the OL and at RB. There's some potential at RB, but it's only occasionally been good enough. I don't agree that this is a poorly built team. I see elite talent at the most critical positions and some decent depth. The scheme and coaching changes have required us to replace some ill-fitting players. And, like every team, we have some holes, but I don't see them as a more than most playoff contenders have. For a team in year two of a schematic overhaul I think they're doing pretty well. My hopes for this season were 9 or 10 wins. That is still a realistic goal with 3 games left. And more importantly, I see the key pieces in place to continue to be playoff contenders and to become SB contenders if RT continues to develop.

 

The coaches show me that when given talent to work with, they can get good results. Should we fire the lot of them in hopes of replacing them with other coaches who may develop them faster?

 

Well said. I agree with virtually all of that. I'm not even that concerned about RB. Give them holes and they'll run through them. If the OL improves the running game will be fine.

 

So what are you arguing about? I do not disagree with that, nor ever intimated I did.

 

That's always the question when you are considering firing a coach. Or a GM. It's not unique to this situation. To me, you don't make the decision to fire the coach unless/until you think you have a better option. Not sure if we'll have a shot at someone I think is a marked improvement.

 

I pretty much agree with all of that, except I guess I am happier with Clemons than you are. I hope we resign him.

 

Dol-Fan Dupree said:

You then asked:

I interpreted that to mean you were saying that the lack of execution at the end of the losses wasn't the coaches' fault. Since the discussion is about the level of talent on the team, I said:

To which, you responded:

And I then responded by saying:

I guess maybe I don't understand the point you are making.

 

I presumed that Dupree meant by saying the losses not being a lack of talent that it must be the coaching. I do not agree. No matter what the coaches may do to prepare the players, the other team's players are also talented and well coached and sometimes things won't go our way.

 

We maybe able to find better coaches, but I think we can definitely find a better GM. Without a doubt. However, "can" and "will" are two different things. Depends on who is picking the new GM. Who would Ross take advice from?

 

You're working backwards and finding justification for an opinion which doesn't jibe with the on the field product.

If the team lacked talent, it would be demonstrated by more lopsided losses, games where the team was not in control or had little chance to win it late, or you would have consistently exploitable aspects which resulted in the team being non-viable.

And you can sure as **** do a lot more scheme-wise than the Dolphins have done this year for their offensive line.

 

Theres an error in the articles title.

Armando meant "Ireland told me his job is safe"

 

No disagreement from me on that.

 

Yes, "can" and "will" are two different things. I'm ready to see Ireland go, but do not see it as a certainty at all that his replacement would be any better. This teams own history of GMs shows that. There are worse GMs than Ireland out there and most of the people discussed around here as replacement options have never done the job. To me, the key part of the job is decision making. At any given pick there will be a lot of players that a GM may like, but the GM isn't judged by who he likes, he's judged by who he picks. So people can sit around and say in retrospect "but I liked [insert Graham, Gronkowski, Brady, Foster, etc.]" but that doesn't mean anything. And the success rate for drafting is far lower than people think, so there will inevitably be criticism from people complaining about having taken some guy ahead of someone else.

 

I'm Trying to figure out wth some our seeing, folks who I have respect for..UT..dpate

We have lost leads so our coaches should be fired..

Did the saints lose to the jets, did they get blownout of the Seahawks..should they fire Payton..I could go on and on with a lot of good teams that have let downs in game and for full games.

Where is the context for a 2nd year coach, rebuild, very inexperienced Qb at the helm..

Essentially what I'm hearing is that because the team lost some leads, had a poor oline for 8 games of the season.underperformed on defense for 8 games that the coaches are doing a horrible job, yet the team has a chance to finish strong at 10 and 6 with a probable playoff birth in the coaches 2nd year after unprecedented adversity.
Somethin doesn't feel right about that theory if we win out.

 

It is when you look at that his entire career as a GM and his free agency flops and letting Long go. Honestly we've beat this horse to death if you're defending Ireland at this point you're either a blind homer or you just don't care if we ever really contend for a title. All you're asking for is maybe a playoff game and you're happy. Thats great but I want a GM capable of building a real contender, not a team that has to hope other teams lose to squeak into the playoffs 5 years into a GMs tenure. He's had his chance, its over.

 

I just don't agree with this. We have some young talent sprinkled in, yes, but we don't have many blue chip talents on the team at all. Cam Wake, Brent Grimes, and Mike Pouncey are really it when it comes to blue chip guys who can get All Pro consideration, and with Pouncey, that may be a stretch right now. I don't think we have much red chip talent either. I think this team has a lot of green chips and a lot of fringe roster players who are playing above their heads right now (i.e. Nolan Carroll and Jimmy Wilson).

This team has very few difference makers, and that is not the responsibility of coaching.

This team is also at a significant talent disadvantage along the OL.

 

I can't speak for everyone who is not enamored with Philbin, and I am not demanding his immediate firing, but I think the team has underachieved and don't see significant improvement from last year despite a lot of high priced (and high draft) acquisitions. And I'm not hanging any of that on just the W-L. I don't see the coaches making the kind of changes and adjustments that are obvious to a lot of us here, I see time and clock management issues almost every week, and I see a team that hasn't put it all together. Maybe that will happemn these last 3 weeks and if it does I'll be more inclined to keep him. Even now, I don't think he has to be fired immediately -- I just don't see signs that he is a very good coach. I've asked you a few times why you do and your response seems to be excuses or mitigating circumstabnces for why he may not be as bad as he appears, but not really anything positive that suggests he is affirmatively good.

 

I agree. At this point I do not want him fired. He turned things around.

I just feel of the two talent verses coaching, that coaching causes more problems than talent. I don't see Miami as a 6 win talent team. I also don't think they so terribly coached that the talent is being held back.

 

Because I don't know yet, I'm arguing behind the theory that we win out, so wouldn't some of those things your seeing be trumped by the ability to win 6 of 7 to finish the season, I'm sure if they do we will see things that will outweight some of the weaknesses your seeing now, is there not enough potential long term?, do you not see enough signs from a first time head coach?

There was a rebuild, while we added some talent, we also had to get rid of players he did not want, who were talented as well..is there no patience to implement those players in your system if they finish at 10 and 6??

 

Like the article says..if they win out, you will have to reassess everything you know about the dolphins...why is that so hard to say for some...they will have deserved the reassessment..10 and 6 is no joke in a 2nd year head coach and Qb tenure.

 

You cannot let 10-6 cloud your judgement and make you ignore just how bad this front office has been at bringing in talent and building a roster. You can't just sweep the previous 5 years under the rug. You also have to consider the dynamic between the head coach and GM right now. You have a head coach that is using advanced technology, likes using metrics, and runs a particular system, and you have a GM that is not very adept at identifying talent that fits that system. By going forward with this GM, you are going to sabotage your head coach.

 

I would add Tannehill, Starks, Soliai, Clay, Jordan and maybe Jones to your list of blue chip talents. I would count Wallace, Odrick and OV as red chips. That's nine blue chips and three red chips, basically over half of the starters. I would count Patterson (when healthy), Carroll, Clemens, Hartline, Gibson, Shelby, Ellerbe and Wheeler as good players. I see Matthews, Miller, Taylor, Davis, Egnew, Wilson and a few others as developmental talent with various ceilings.

 

We have different definitions of what a blue chip player is then.

 

All you have to do is look at the actual approximate value Miami has gotten out of their draft picks during Ireland's tenure as GM vs the expected approximate value of the picks they had. You will see that we do not maximize our position in the draft and are one of the worst drafting teams in the NFL. Most of you may want to ignore that data, but the data is there. As I have said before, it isn't a coincidence that Miami having 2 winning seasons in the past 10 years has been reflected in their poor drafting record. It's also not a coincidence that between 1970 and 1995, Miami was one of the 3 best drafting teams in the NFL, and that coincided with having only 2 losing seasons in a 26 year span.

 

Clearly. My definition is based on a player having the talent to be among the top 5 at his position. The player may not be there yet. They have to be developed and put into position to succeed, but if the talent is there then the GM did his job (assuming he fits the system).

 

Two things, I can't blame Ireland for five years of acquisitions when my logic tells me Parcells was responsible for a lot of them, 2nd, if we finish 10 and 6, winning 6 of 7 with the #7 team in youth, 3rd in cap space and all my picks, I'm gonna have to wait for the coach to give me better signs that he's not happy with the progression of his roster talent with those 2nd year accomplishments.

 

Is it possible you release that data for the last three offseasons, drafts.?

 

Can't make this up.

Jeff Ireland – An Excellent GM

http://phinphanatic.com/2013/11/15/jeff-ireland/

 

IMO, much of what went on earlier in the year was a combination of questionable coaching and poor execution. Since then, the coaches seemed to have wised up a bit and (perhaps as a result) the execution has been better. To me, that leaves a few questions- Do you trust the coaching staff to at least mitigate the questionable habits, and is the talent even deep enough to take advantage if they did?

 

That article is about the biggest crop of crap I've ever read. It's nothing but a blame game. Jeff Ireland got away with blaming Tony Sparano for the ills of this franchise. Guess what? We don't have a better record than we did under Sparano. Why?

Talent.

Talent is what this team doesn't have a lot of.

This is a GM that ROUTINELY overpays in free agency. This is a GM that DOES NOT maximize his draft position in the draft. This is a GM that has yet to produce a winning team in Miami despite being on the job for 6 years. This is a GM that is routinely abrasive to the fans and the media. This is a GM that players do not like. This is a GM that does not present himself well publicly.

This is a GM that has PROVEN that he has no vision of how to put together a 53 man roster at all.

 

1. Every draft is different so you can't really have blanket expectations for guys based on the round they were selected in.

2. I'm aware we have some amateur draft guys here and I have a ton of respect for them. Hell my dream draft for this year was to take Cooper to play LG and trade up for Watson at OT, it's in the archives, Todd, Deej and others can confirm it. I thought OL was our biggest issue. I also wanted a big RB to run inside like Lacy or Taylor and a blocking TE like Johnson from Alabama. I'm not patting myself on the back I'm just saying even a guy who knows next to nothing about the draft can make some picks and appear to have more foresight than Ireland but imo I'd be a fool to think that was actually the case.

3. I was using that as an example.

4. I don't have a low opinion of myself I believe I have a realistic opinion of myself.

 

You going back to the dark side?

IMO the worse thing would be for us to finish 9-7 and miss the playoffs and Ireland be retained. That gives me nightmares and unfortunately I think has more than a 50% chance of happening. Obviously beating NE would be a great step and change the probabilities , we then would have to avoid the , to date , customary let down to either Buff or NY.

Sure we have plus players , sure we have some optimism , but is it enough? Are we where we should be ? Are we happy to be middling at this point of yet another season? I am not an Ireland fan obviously and think he is over matched and just because some measures some people use put him/us in some mid tier group , that is not anywhere enough for me personally. I am not happy with that and don't think anyone should , especially at this point of Ireland's tenure. I desperately want to be in the playoffs , I want to be a relevant franchise again , I want that this year. In no way am I cheering against us in order to jettison Ireland. For all those that believe Ireland should stay , I take it then you truly believe he will lead this franchise to the Super Bowl. I also take it you can't keep pushing that playoff success line further each year to suit you.

I will so much be more than happy to be wrong about Ireland if we win a playoff game this year , win at least 11 games including that one , and then let the Ireland camp tell us they told us so.

However barring that I believe 95 plus % of his camp said this year was the drop dead date . No more excuses if we don't get where we should be , THIS YEAR .

Just my opinion .

 

I think the worst possible thing that could happen to the Dolphins is for Jeff Ireland to be retained, period. Whether we go 10-6 and make the playoffs, win a game in the playoffs, or finish 7-9, Jeff Ireland needs to be replaced. He should be fired for his track record alone.

With that said, one reason he should be fired is a reason many are going to just pass off as not important. That reason is this. The Miami Dolphins MUST become a more media friendly team. The organization as a whole has to stop treating the media like they are only out to steal their secrets. It's time to cleanse this organization of the Bill Parcells approach to running a franchise and media policies. This organization must realize that the media is their means of communicating with the fans of this team.

The bottom line though is that we have to get someone that is better at evaluating talent, making free agent decisions, and building a roster than Jeff Ireland is.

 

I do agree that I don't like the media policies. I also don't like how they treat players by so often nickel and diming them. But if the team makes the playoffs and/or goes 9-7 then it's pretty clear that the talent picking part isn't the problem. That's about the area where most everybody agreed would be a successful season before the season started. Achieving that with a young team, an ascending young QB and excellent cap management is pretty much exactly where you want to be.

 

Lots of reasons imo that Ireland shouldn't be retained .

I just fear that being the smallest amount over the mendoza line will grant the poster boy for the Peter Principle yet another extension from actually having to produce.

Bottom line for me is do we have the GM in place that will lead this team to the Super Bowl . If that isn't , then we have the wrong GM . How long does a GM have to fail until you decide he isn't , and you decide he is , pray tell when is that drop dead date for 11 wins? Oh... next year? Sorry , heard that far often .

 

I don't see how it is pretty clear that this is where we want to be and that talent isn't the problem. With better talent, this team isn't trying to squeak into the playoffs right now. This guy has had SIX years to build a team. SIX. And he has built a team that needs help to get into the playoffs.

Also, I don't buy the excellent cap management when he severely overpaid a one trick pony receiver. That receiver is going to count $13+ million against the cap next year when he's not worth a quarter of that. How is that excellent cap management? It's the definition of overpaying to make a splash in free agency, similar to what the Washington Redskins do. That doesn't include how much money Jeff has tied up in a below average core of linebackers right now, and we are stuck with those contracts for at least another two seasons. The fact that Jeff is TOO WILLING to overspend in free agency is yet another reason he should be fired. He's been downright horrific with his free agency decisions. I'd really love to tally up the cost that he has spent in free agency during his 6 years in Miami and actually look at the return of investment on that money. Think about the big money deals given to Justin Smiley, Jake Grove, Ernest Wilford, Karlos Dansby, and now Mike Wallace and Dannell Ellerbe. None of them have given us a positive return on the investment made in them. I'd much rather have a GM that comes from the Packers way of thinking in that you don't spend big in free agency unless you are signing your own. It is down right frightening to me to think about Jeff being given a chance to spend even more money in free agency this coming off season!!

 

With respect , 9 and 7 is the bottom line for you?

9 and 7 is just above treading water , if that was the year after 6 wins and your second or even third year MAYBE you feel good enough to keep the status quo. If we yet again miss the playoffs , adding yet another year to that dubious record , that is acceptable? We can justify retaining Ireland because there is some sense , some minimum success is hopefully right around the corner? That is a lot of trust for someone that doesn't deserve it from his track record , a lot to bank on.

Too many reasons imo that he simply is not the answer , and again , if he isn't the answer then there should be no reason he be retained , at least imo .

 

He's got to be running out of people to blame his lack of success on. He has blamed Bill Parcells and Tony Sparano so far, and it's pretty obvious through his mouthpiece with the Miami Herald that he has been trying to throw Joe Philbin under the bus as well. Some may want to deny that Armando Salguero is a mouthpiece for Jeff Ireland. Just ask Section about that if you have doubts.

 

When I looked at this roster before the season, analyzed the additions, the subtractions, took into account the rebuilding part of a 2nd year staff trying to make the changes fit, where the team stood in terms of youth, a young inexperienced Qb, and
cap space for the following year,I came up with 9 and 7 as a positive progression from the prior year..

That's just based on football..since then we've heard some things outside of that context..maybe a riff between coach and GM..we'll see how it plays out.

If they go 10 and 6.. I've got to reassess everything..I've got to hear the coaches thoughts at the end of the season, because when you go 10 and 6 with this kind of run, #1, the coach needs to give the talent on his roster some credit for getting him to that point so early in his tenure, and #2, he will need to reassess things himself..

If at the end of the year, you got yourself a playoff team this young, with space in your cap, and you feel the chemistry of the team is all about winning a championship, then I don't think the person who aquired the talent should be fired..

Why?, because while I'm confident in some of the mistakes he did make, he was able to find other players that made up for those misses, and to me the ratio seems to be on the upswing..