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Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Other NFL' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.

Ryan Tannehill is...

  1. A terrible QB

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A below average QB

    4 vote(s)
    6.0%
  3. An average QB

    7 vote(s)
    10.4%
  4. An above average QB

    36 vote(s)
    53.7%
  5. An elite QB

    16 vote(s)
    23.9%
  6. The GOAT.

    4 vote(s)
    6.0%
  1. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    It's not revisionism. You guys actually made predictions. That's the point. And the predictions were wrong. That it took you longer to realize Gase was a fraud than I did or some others is a different story.

    That's different from the claim that Tannehill with the right coach + surroundings meant high level play. That part you were right about, but that wasn't the only argument made. Actual predictions were made, most notably in 2018.
     
  2. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    See, you so often resort to Montana but I counter with Marino and Elway. Both were good teams that needed the quarterback to take them to the next level, just like the Titans needed a quarterback in Tannehill.

    I have my concerns about Tagovailoa but I feel better about his chances of success in the NFL than I do Herbert and Burrow. Both of those teams have so many holes that a quarterback isn’t going to fix their woes. While we have holes, ours aren’t as numerous as theirs...just like Elway and Marino both walked into situations where they were instantly set up for success...just like Tannehill was.
     
  3. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Is that really a fair indictment against Tannehill in 2018? Really? Offensive players lost in 2018 included Jarvis Landry, Jay Ajayi and Mike Pouncy. These were 3 instrumental players that made Tannehill successful in 2016 prior to his knee injury. That’s not even taking into account an offensive line that had more holes in it than piece of Swiss cheese. Not to mention the fact that Gase was as lost as a b@stard on Father’s Day.

    Those of us who supported Tannehill knew, ALWAYS knew who and what he is but just like the great Tom Brady, when you take away your offensive weapons, there’s only so much you can do.

    Tannehill had (and still has) in Tennessee what he should have had in Miami...a complete offensive package to work with
     
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  4. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I only brought up Montana just to make sure you weren't going back to your original claim that great QB's tend to go to teams that are already built. That's often true, but it often isn't. It's really all across the board in terms of the degree to which the team is already built for QB's that end up being "great".

    There are two factors at play here: 1) if you're drafted by a team that's mostly built you have a better chance of succeeding, but 2) the best rookie talent tends to go to teams that aren't already built because of draft order. Put together, that makes for a mix of how much the team is already built for "great" QB's. There's a whole spectrum there.

    As far as Tua, though he was drafted early (case #2), Flores seems like the real deal as a defensive coach which puts Tua (IF he ends up great) in the middle of the spectrum: going to a team that's only half built (mostly defense). It's nowhere near the situation as with Marino or Tannehill, but way better than Montana. So I share your optimism with Tua, though in my case it's also because I thought pre-draft he actually was the most likely to succeed at the NFL level.
     
  5. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    It's not an indictment against Tannehill, just against supporters saying they were better at making predictions about Tannehill. Tons of predictions about him finally being top 10 in passer rating etc. That is, taking all the info people had into account (including players gained/lost) they still made that prediction.

    btw.. regarding Gase, there were tons of people AFTER 2018 that said the Dolphins were making a mistake firing Gase, saying we would regret seeing Gase go to the Jets, etc. I had who knows how many debates about that, predicting Gase would fail with the Jets. So by no means was the now well accepted version of Gase the view in 2018 among many.

    I stopped supporting Gase from 2017 because he refused to do what was necessary to draft a QB high after Tannehill's injury. That to me meant he didn't know what he was doing at QB. By luck we could've had Watson or Mahomes had we prioritized drafting a QB in that year.
     
  6. Hiruma78

    Hiruma78 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I didn't wanna say anything, because it's just pointless, butthe double standard is just hilaroius and beautiful:

    RT had ****ty wrs' and a weak o olines, mediocre running game (mainly I think because of the o lilne, but that' not the point),
    BUT...our mediocrity was just HIS fault, if we lost was his fault, from the rookie year and on, because true qbs, the one with the it factor ( just LOL ) should be top 10, top 5 no matter what, going to the playoffs no mqatter what and other bs like that

    now, we have Tua and...the problem are: wrs not good enough, guys! they can't separate, they are worthless! (I guess they are not good as...Hartline and Bess?! LOL) Offensive line? not good enough, no doubt, that's the reason Tua had a 6 sack game, not at all his responsability...and another problem is the running game, Tua needs a good running game and so on

    this without even mentioning that one was beaten into a pulp without an injury for 7 staight years...(but of course, was just his fault if he took a sack and not the oline fault, he lacked pocket presence... even if he had very good players like thomas, cabo, jerry, martin, colombo, davenport, a center without hip protecting him... shame on him! and now it's just by some magic that he has a sacks percentage in the top 10 - goping by the Pro Football Refence numbers - lolololol, but I am sure that's because the Titans have an all pro line or some other bs like that...he has an all pro like Cocklin I mean...ah, right, he is with the Browns now...he has Lewan! ah, he is injured and he is not playing? ops....well, no matter, he has an all pro line, that's the reason!)

    now we have a player that, apparently, can't play 3 games in a row? is anyone worried or calling injury prone? no sir, are you kidding? they are just freaky accidents and someone' else fault (I mean, NOW it's the OL's fault, because he was hit so many times, right?)
    he still has to pass for more than 300 yards (quite a low bar in todays' game...) but ehi, he had one beautiful pass escaping pressure, that's quite enough!


    as I said, the double standard is HILARIOUS (especially coming from guys that present themselves like objective and **** numbers&stats for breakfast, lol)

    We had on our team a QB that is capable (it's an objective facts, sorry for the haters and people in denial) of playing at a top 5 stats level, we let him be coached by 2 of the worst coaches in the whole league (Philbin and Gase), we paired him with paper offensive line, and we almost broke him phisically... and we, happily ran him out of town, PAYING another team to let him play and leading them to the AFC final conference... so smart

    and not one of the haters that has the intellectual honesty to say: damn, I simply was wrong, he's not Rodgers or Wilson or Mahoness, but damn, if you can't win with this guy, maybe the problem is elsewhere

    NOT ONE, jesus, talking about intellectual honesty, right? (the ony one, to be honest, has been DJ, but even he has to add always a couple of caveats and other points, just to dismiss what the guy has been doing for the last 2 seasons)

    I mean, the guy can't lead a team and doesn't have the IT FACTOR, that's why...he has the most game winning drive of the season, lol, because he is no leader, remember? (3 last year, on only 11 starts)

    On this board I remember people saying - SERIOUSLY - that Alex Smith was better (the guy that has passed for more then 20 td TWICEin his 15 year career...replaced at the first occasion by another qb) , that Wentz and Mayfield and any other ****ty hot qb of the moment were proof of how much difference a good qb could do for a team (just...LOL, Titans fan, are you available to trade RT for Mayfield or Wentz?) and how mediocre RT was.... that an NFL team no doubt would prefere Mullins to RT (this like...3 or 2 years ago...), I mean...just c'mon!


    and still we don't have enough statistical proof, apparently, to say, wow, what a ****ty franchise we have been that could waste completely 7 years of this guy without putting - I don't know . just a ****ing decent OL before him...like another teams easily did (but hei, now it seems that the Titans were a team full of all pro just waiting a mediocre qb to explode, talk about confirmation bias and desperate rationalizations :001_rolleyes:)
    by the way, I am a dolphan, so I really HOPE WITH ALL MYSELF that TUA is the real thing - and I believe he can be: I have never see such a consensuns on a prospect by the people whose opinion I trust: DJ, CK, Slim, Hoops, Boomer and many others, talking just about forums - but the DOUBLE STANDARD is sickening, to me

    anyway, sorry for the rant (and of course for my English) and keep going on with the discussion, it's beautiful reading how the goal post is always moved (he can't throw a deep ball! he has no pocket presence! he can't lead! he can't lead a team deep in the playoff! he is overpaid! he needs a perfect team and oline before him...and now: his supporters made some specific preditcions, so..they were wrong!)

    peace out
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  7. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    lol.. you're just so off base. The reason it seems like a double standard to you is precisely because YOU are cherry picking things, ignoring all kinds of stuff that's written, and assuming things that are said by many different posters are actually being said by the same poster. No.. you have to look at what each poster says and see if there's inconsistency.

    For example, while I've said that WR's aren't getting separation, I've also consistently faulted Tua for everything we've see from him. No deflection of blame for me. But you of course ignore all such statements because you have this idea in your head there HAS to be a double standard even if there isn't one lol.

    Or, the repeated admission that statistically speaking it IS (most likely) true that Tannehill wasn't the problem in Miami. Geez. Tons of pages showing that in this very thread yet you deliberately ignore all of that because.. yup.. there HAS to be a double standard even if there isn't one lol.

    I mean c'mon.. the intellectual dishonesty (as you put it) on your part is unbelievable. At least realize that different posters post different things and track to see if there's inconsistency from each poster separately. People are more consistent than you're acting like.
     
  8. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I know what people mean, but it is still bull****. We saw it right before our eyes this season in Seattle. Wilson was "carrying the team"..... until he wasn't. Chris Carson and Carlos Hyde are the two headed version of Derrick Henry. They both missed the games 8, 9, and 10. Seattle went 1-2 in those games. The conversation about the Seattle offense was all about getting balance back. Why didn't Wilson just continue carrying the team?

    LOL.... okay sure.

    Sorry but I was better at evaluating Tannehill's play on the field in Miami and the situation that he was in than you were. That is now proven beyond any doubt. My evaluation of what was happening was based on watching the games and reviewing film. I was looking at the skills that Tannehill possesses not comparing similar career statistics to put him in a category.

    He had the "right" supporting cast for brief periods in the Gase era and in those periods we saw glimpses of what we see now. You dismissed those glimpses. I didn't. So, no, I wasn't wrong about Tannehill in Miami. I didn't predict that "this is the year". My question each season was the same - "Is this the year that we finally get decent OL play?" That was the primary concern for me every season.

    What I was told at the time is that the problem must be Tannehill. We changed OL year after year, there is no way it could be on the OL. That was DESPITE film that showed the opposite. The film SHOWED crappy OL play but still....... it... must... be.... Tannehill. LOL.

    As my signature says - "Film first, numbers second. If the numbers don’t match what is seen on film, something is likely wrong with the numbers."
     
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  9. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Exactly....:theman:
     
  10. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL at the (most likely)...... how do you not see that this just proves the point.....
     
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  11. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Maybe in your case it's true that you got Tannehill right in both Miami and Tennessee, but unless you can show you're better in general than those NFL insiders at QB evaluation then it makes sense to consider their view (that was your question.. why consider their opinion if they got this wrong). They certainly know football better than almost every fan does.

    The main point I was making is that getting QB evals right is mostly luck for almost everyone, including the pros. Unless I see evidence to the contrary I'm assuming that's true for you too, even if you got Tannehill right.

    Because you HAVE to put that in to be technically correct for ANY result of statistical analysis.
     
  12. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    The fact that a person can be right or wrong in no way implies they were right or wrong based on luck.

    Youd need more evidence to show that, because if it's entirely luck NFL teams are wasting a LOT of money on QB scouts.

    I'm not making a claim in either direction I just find that to be a bold statement.
     
  13. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    We have tons of evidence that the pros gets QB evals wrong at an alarming rate even when they get the pick of the litter. Often, the QB taken first isn't the best QB in the draft, and teams often take a QB high that ends up busting. That shouldn't happen if skill in evaluation was the primary factor.

    Ignoring the last 3 years, look at the first QB's taken in the draft the last 20 years:
    2017: Trubisky
    2016: Goff
    2015: Winston
    2014: Bortles
    2013: Manuel
    2012: Luck
    2011: Newton
    2010: Bradford
    2009: Stafford
    2008: Ryan
    2007: Russell
    2006: Young
    2005: Smith
    2004: Eli Manning
    2003: Palmer
    2002: Carr
    2001: Vick
    2000: Pennington

    Most of those were picked first overall in the draft.

    That's a list of mostly busts or average QB's. It's clearly mostly luck for the pros. That doesn't mean that it's not worth spending money on scouts because you might gain a competitive advantage doing so even if it's mostly luck (one has nothing to do with the other). And there is evidence SOME of QB eval is skill because QB's picked earlier tend to do better than those picked late. But the failure rate at the top shows it's mostly luck.
     
  14. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Um, FinFan wasn't the only one there Brad. As I recall a certain poster here called the Titans making the playoffs and Tannehill being named NFL Comeback Player of the Year.

    There were MANY of us who called it right on Tannehill...who aren't on national TV or writing for sports columns that knew better than they did.
     
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  15. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    You're not following the discussion. It's about making accurate predictions in BOTH Miami and Tennessee. Generally, it's been one or the other, not both, for most posters here. Again, 2018 the general consensus pre-season among pro-Tannehill posters was that he would actually end up top 10 that year, which didn't happen of course.

    btw.. in your specific case you predicted that with Tannehill back in 2018 we'd perform more like 2016 (you said 2017 was due to Cutler) and said that if we kept Wunderkind Gase (people like me were calling for his head) he was going to return this franchise to its glory days under Shula. Again.. wrong in Miami, right in Tennessee, not right in both.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  16. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    You're stitching together arguments that dont have much to do with one another and presenting them as a cohesive whole in my opinion.

    1) What evidence is there that pros get it wrong at an alarming rate? Before that we have to agree on what an alarming rate would be. Then assuming we overcome the first two hurdles you're proposing that because pros get it wrong a lot that indicates luck. Youd have to explain to me why it couldnt indicate other possible scenarios such as: Teams that pick near the top of the draft may have worse personnel and scouts in general....showing why the team is so bad. I'm not proposing that as a correct answer but I'm saying that you cant just insinuate that professionals wrong = luck.

    2) The first QB taken isnt always the best. I dont see how this leads to your conclusion either. You're proposing that because team A got it wrong we can only assume team B got it right by luck. That's demonstrably false.

    3) You cant gain a competitive advantage in something entirely luck based. You cant have it both ways.

    4) You're cherry picking data in the paragraph before the list as far as I'm concerned. You could say the reverse as well, you're choosing the interpretation that fits a preconceived notion.

    5) I think you're also not taking a few factors into account, but I dont want to totally bombard you. I'd like to give you a chance to reply before I make any further points.
     
  17. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    But you only do that when the stats favor Tannehill.
     
  18. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    OK let me see if I can write this response during halftime of a so far disappointing game.

    One way you'd measure the degree to which QB evals are luck or not would be to look at the overlap in passer rating distributions between QB's in that list and QB's in the league (if we use passer rating as the measure). Minimal overlap means pure skill while perfect overlap means pure luck. Without doing the full analysis you can clearly see from that list that the distribution of passer ratings is pretty close to what you actually see in the NFL, in other words it's pretty clear it's mostly luck.

    Also, there's no such thing as "skill to perform at chance level". That's equivalent to "luck". So saying (hypothetically) that professionals have a skill level equivalent to luck is the same thing as saying there's no skill.

    You're misunderstanding. The first QB taken should be the one where you see the most evidence of skill, which is why it makes sense looking at a list like that.

    I already said there's evidence some of it is due to skill, so what I said applies.

    Not sure what you're referring to. The list deals with QB's taken first, which is the data you'd want to look at for the most evidence of skill. I didn't look at the other thing mentioned, which was whether the QB taken first was the best in the draft. That's a harder analysis to do, and only one of the analyses is necessary to estimate the degree to which QB drafting is luck so I chose the easier one to work with.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  19. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    That's a total lie. I put in the proper qualifiers when talking about Tannehill stats in Miami that showed he was no better than average (e.g., what specifically "statistical significance" means and how sample size can affect the result, all of which translates to probabilities and likelihoods).
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How did Tannehill do today? Anyone watch that game? I know they came way back after being blown out early- just curious if they were losing so bad from pick-6's or what happened.
     
  21. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Had that game on another screen. Titans defense was non-existent for a good part. Mayfield had a field day. That near comeback was due to a fumble by Mayfield on 4th down I think trying to ice the game. Made it interesting at the end but there was just too much to overcome (3 scores, 2 of which the Titans did overcome but not the 3rd).

    Tannehill was fine. Loss wasn't on him. Titans games are generally interesting this year for sure.
     
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  22. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill had a very good game. He was 29 of 45 for 389 yards 3 TDs and 1 INT. His skill position teammates let him down big time. AJ Brown fumbled what would have been a 4th TD pass in the first half. It was recovered by a teammate and run in for the score.

    Their first drive was stopped by a drop on third down by a TE, then Henry getting stuff on 4th and short. Henry fumbled deep in their own territory on the second drive. Starting their 3rd drive, Tannehill was 1 of 2 (the drop) and was already down 17-0.

    Tannehill leads a TD drive then two three and outs and it is 38-7..... final drive of the half Brown fumbles again.

    2nd half they start with 2 TD drives and are driving again when Tannehill throws a perfectly placed ball that hits Humphries in the throat and pops up in the air for an INT..... That is how the game went.

    The Titans defense is schizophrenic. One week it is fine, the next it is complete trash. They made an average Mayfield look like Mahomes.
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    *Wipes eye

    That was beautiful, man.

    Props.
     
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  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Tannehill goes 29 of 45 for 389 yards 3 TDsand 1 INT, and cbrad says "Tannehill was fine."

    Fine?


    This is exactly the point of Hiruma's post.
     
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  25. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    You have some serious issues man. Someone asks if Tannehill was at fault for the loss, I say no, and you say that's a double standard against Tannehill (re: Hiruma's post, which was a total misrepresentation btw, as I explained in detail).
     
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  26. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Well from what I saw, the Titans' offense had some self inflicted wounds...

    The receiver's bobbled catch the ended up an "interception" by Cleveland and Henry's fumble at the Titans' 25 yard line. Can't have those types of mistakes, especially with a team that's actually starting to get good.

    Defensively...well let's be honest and call it like it is, Tennessee had NO defense today. That was the Achilles Heel last season and it appears this season it's gotten even worse.

    Tannehill couldn't have done anything more to win the game. Receivers have to catch those passes that are right there in their hands and that defense had better wake up.
     
  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with a lot of Himura's post in that we are seeing a double standard- Tannehill was in "prove it mode" every single season in Miami and the protection around him played right into his biggest weaknesses. That was on the coaching and the front office for not being able to draft the right kinds of linemen- aka, the opposite of Johnathan Martin's high moral character. We absolutely blew it with Tannehill.

    With Tua, I felt like he regressed today in locking onto his reads, not throwing accurate passes and just not finding any sort of rhythm at all. That's okay because he's a rookie, I completely get it, but we just went through 7 seasons where if someone said something positive about Tannehill, people were throwing temper tantrums. Well guess what- those people were very wrong in their opinions, but they made it 10x worse by the way they treated others here for sharing their own thoughts.

    Now we're seeing the exact opposite with Tua...God forbid someone points out a mistake he made. Look at the main game thread today- it actually started with multiple people mocking Burrow's injury. The whole 1st page was trash talk because they love Tua that much...he couldn't possibly be injury prone or not ready to start this year. It's hot take after hot take for no reason at all. And nobody's saying "Tua sucks" like so many did over Tannehill...it's just basic comments that gets a select few worked into a frenzy.

    I actually quit this thread a few years ago after I got into an argument with someone over Tannehill, and I honestly had no intention of coming back because I'm so sick of the rampant negativity. I think I'm just about to that point again where it's time to say goodbye...it just doesn't make any sense to log in and see trolls trying to make everyone hate each other.

    But if it does get to that point again, just get prepared for me to go on a rant why Fitzpatrick is actually the best QB ever- not that I believe that, mind you, but this time I'm going to take a few trolls with me, LOL.
     
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  28. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Umm.. that's totally inaccurate dude. Check out pages 3 and 4 and the top of page 5 of the game thread:
    https://www.thephins.com/threads/bengals-dolphins-game-thread.95647/page-3

    It's one attack on Tua after another, most of it justified I must say if one only looks at Tua's first half of play. Lots of people saying "Tua sucks". So where is this "love" for Tua you speak of? Not there. Only came after the 2nd half started.

    No, you have people who are strenuously opposed to Tua, people who strenuously support him, and many on both sides who are nevertheless willing to let evidence decide. I think you're mischaracterizing the Tua debate, as you can tell from the game thread. It's not a "God forbid someone points out a mistake" situation.
     
  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Aah, that's because I never made it that far...the fighting just got too ugly for me for the 3rd or 4th week in a row. I'd start on page one pre-game and once it got toxic, I'd stop reading completely. Then I'd post what I saw post-game and jump in that conversation, basically skipping everything in-between.

    But you're right, it's one extreme or another. Folks that are in "wait and see mode while we root for our young QB" seem to be in the vast minority.
     
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  30. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    The fan base that participates in these forums seem to want to jump right back into heated arguments over the QB..... I am firmly in the "wait and see mode while we root for our young QB". I've got no interest in another multiyear QB debate. One is enough.....
     
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  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I completely agree, I just don't have the energy or patience to argue over hot takes.
     
  32. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent Well-Known Member

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  33. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Not even surprising, at this point...more expected.
     
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  34. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Oh sure. That's fine if you think "those stats" are important..... what about the RUN/PASS RATIO!!!!!
     
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  35. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Hes a top five quarterback at this point. Right now my top five goes like this

    1. Patrick Mahomes
    2. Josh Allen
    3. Aaron Rodgers
    4. Ryan Tannehill
    5. Russell Wilson


    Wilson’s struggles the last 3-4 weeks has dropped down on me but given the choices he makes the top 5 for me.

    I have watched a lot of Bills games this season... Josh Allen is a god damn baller and right now he is unstoppable.. just when you thought it was over, Brady is finally gone, this kid Josh comes to our division to become a nightmare matchup for the next decade.
     
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  36. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    While you are right that on that day there were more against Tua, my experience with this site has been exactly what he was talking about with people dismissing any possible negative talking point.

    I know that you know picking a random sample to justify a point isnt necessarily indicative of the overall opinion.

    Ftr I dont lump you into that group. You seem willing to have logical conversation about Tua in my experience.
     
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  37. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    • Starting the 2014 season, I said RT would never develop in Miami because he couldn't handle pressure. I was ultimately right (for the wrong reasons).
    • Starting the 2016 season, I said RT would be top 10. He was on track before the injury...but I was wrong.
    • Starting the 2017 season, I said RT would be top 10. Wrong again, he didn't play.
    • Starting the 2018 season, I said RT would be top 10. I was very wrong.
    • By the end of that season, I thought his starting career was over if Gase left. I was right...and then wrong.
    • In 2019, I expected him to eventually become the starter....I got that right.
    • In 2019, I also expected him to play at top 10 levels, I got that right too.
    Here's the thing though, none of that is "factual"...it's all based on stats and wins. I could have argued the exact opposite things and still claimed today to be right. Because once you get down to it, your stats show that the RT from 2018 is not the same RT from 2020....which means something other than Tannehill changed OR he suddenly got a whole lot better overnight.

    I could easily argue today that RT was a top 10 QB in 2016-2018 with a surrounding cast that made it impossible to play on those levels. Looking back, I wanted Gase to stay simply because he had confidence in RT and so did I, even though he wasn't 100% where he is today. I think it's pretty obvious now that his surroundings failed him, including Gase, his line and the receivers we were building around him.

    In fact, the only one left from RT's stint is Parker and he's playing much better. Why? Did Parker finally grow into a man or was it surrounding changes? Maybe Parker was elite this whole time as well but because the line sucked and the coaching sucked, the QB sucked too and he couldn't throw the elite receiver the ball more often.

    My point here is that all opinions were valid...and they were also all wrong as well. With the right team around him, Tannehill could have easily turned out to be our next Marino. The only right answer here is that the organization just completely failed him and screwed all of us over in the process.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
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  38. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    IMO, at this point it is:

    1a. Mahomes
    1b. Rodgers

    3. Wilson
    4. Brees

    then (in groups you can order any way you like within each group):

    Tannehill, Watson, Allen
    Roethlisberger, Carr, Murray, Brady
    Cousins, Mayfield, Rivers, Goff, Matt Ryan, Jackson
    the rest...

    At this point, there is a bigger gap between Rodgers and Wilson than there is between Wilson and Tannehill. That's reflected in the passer ratings.
     
  39. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Lots of people sleeping on Josh Allen...even fans in the same division. They still have it stuck in their heads, all the bonehead plays he made in his first couple years, including to lose @ Houston in the playoffs last year. Kid's the real deal IMO. If he continues to improve anywhere close to how he's improved over his first 3 years, he's gonna be a monster.
     
  40. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Oh and don't forget...who will the Stej be drafting next spring? lol
     

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