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Ryan Tannehill

Discussion in 'Other NFL' started by bbqpitlover, Oct 16, 2019.

Ryan Tannehill is...

  1. A terrible QB

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. A below average QB

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  3. An average QB

    7 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. An above average QB

    39 vote(s)
    55.7%
  5. An elite QB

    16 vote(s)
    22.9%
  6. The GOAT.

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    He wasn't terrible...but he was off on several passes too, to go along with the drops. Definitely below his expected level of performance.
     
  2. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'll take that as a compliment actually since I like acting in good faith lol

    I'm starting to feel like a defense attorney though.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  3. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Not sure what his red zone numbers are but it seems he's blowing the lid off of that too. I can't remember too many Tennessee field goals this year
     
    resnor likes this.
  4. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and what that tells you is that there are lots of comments about people here, which isn't what we're here to do.

    If you can't comment on what someone is saying without commenting on the person himself, then don't comment at all.
     
    AGuyNamedAlex likes this.
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    We are also here to have discussion in good faith.
     
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  6. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    31 Red Zone TDs (Most in the NFL since he has been starter)

    70.3% Completion % in Red Zone (2nd highest in NFL)

    5/5 TDs in Red Zone trips in the playoffs.
     
  7. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The whole Ravens team was off - I think especially for Lamar, taking off in week 17 wasn't helpful. They had a lot of early miscues, the Titans went up and the Ravens started to press and panic, plus they just couldn't punch it in against a fairly stout defense. Settling for that field goal right at the half was a killer. They will be a good team again next year - Jackson isn't Mahomes, but he is a weapon and a good QB.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  8. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Those are franchise QB numbers

    Red zone numbers will be the deciding factor in the KC game IMO. Tennessee defense had to hold KC offense to some FGs when in the red zone. Tennessee will need to score TDs. Tennessee has to win the red zone battle
     
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  9. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Ya the Ravens were...I was talking about Brady.
     
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  10. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Tennessee's RZ TD% is way higher than KC's...but KC gets there more often.

    I'd agree they need to hold them to some FGs...maybe even get a couple turnovers/blocked punts/kicks to be able to control the game their way. Mahomes is too damn good to shut down. And Kelce...they need to beat his *** up.
     
    adamprez2003 likes this.
  11. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    "Good QBs lift their teams up"

    Wich is true, but how much of the lifting? Seattle in the playoffs looked pretty bad, Wilson was the one out there substaining drives and keeping the chains moving but at the end he took a massive L. So how much of the lifting can a good/great QB actually do?

    Id even argue seattle would be so bad that without Wilson that team would of been 3-13. It didnt help that they lost 3 of their RBs and they were hurt in the interior line.
     
    PhinFan1968 likes this.
  12. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    They had the 4th ranked rushing offense. They were a balanced team until the injuries depleted the RB roster. That didn't happen until the last two games of the regular season. In week 15 Carson had 133 yards rushing and 2 TDs. After that they went 1-3, including the playoffs. That shows that Wilson is NOT able to carry the team by himself.
     
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    They are 1st in the league in red zone TD's, and last in the league in red zone field goals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
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  14. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Lamar had players open all over the field and he overthrew them. His outside throws were pathetic too with zero velocity.

    Mahomes ain’t missing that.

    I mean look at this ****

    [​IMG]
     
  15. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Was that late in the game when they were in prevent? That safety looks way to deep for a regular defense.

    Edit: If Tannehill had that he'd nail it too.
     
    Irishman likes this.
  16. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    I believe this was in the 3rd with 7:36 to go.
     
  17. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    They can't give KC that kinda room lol.
     
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  18. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Notice how the other CB got beat too?

    It doesnt look good man. Our pass defense isnt good at all, and we suck at pressuring the QB.

    Our only hope is to keep them off the field as much as possible.
     
    PhinFan1968 likes this.
  19. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    One possible concern is the weather. As of now, it's supposed to be like 24 degrees, but dry. I know that makes the ball a little harder to catch, but aside from that, how much should that impact a passing game (for those that know about that stuff)?
     
    Irishman likes this.
  20. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    KC will have that kind of room... Tyreke Hill opens the field wide for them... Titans have to move the chains, control time of possession.. if they want to engage in a fast pace shootout, theyre going home in a blowout..

    What is wrong with Houston is that they dont have a running back worth a damn.. up 24, and theyre still looking for big plays down the field.. if they had any sort of talent at running back... to get them an 8-10 play drive and just keep the clock moving...


    Then they do themselves more favors going for a fake punt in that field..
     
  21. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Folks, the Titans have the quarterback with the highest regular season passer rating in the league, 12 points (1.03 z-scores) higher than Kansas City's quarterback. Where is the faith that the Titans can keep pace in a passing duel?
     
  22. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    They cant, because simply Titans dont have the same talented wideouts as KC. AJ Brown is the only threat of creating separation.

    So mix in that with their scheme and it doesnt bold well them winning in a shoot out. Honestly it isnt really that hard to figure out.
     
  23. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    Then we need to reassess what passer rating means in this instance, or reassess what having a season-high passer rating in the league means.

    Passer rating differential is what wins in the NFL. If having a passer rating 1.03 z-scores above the opposing team's passer rating translates to no faith in a team's ability to win the game in a passing duel, then passer rating can't possibly mean in this instance what it usually does.
     
    AGuyNamedAlex likes this.
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's much of a factor honestly. Players warm up, stretch and move around...within 5 minutes the cold is a non-factor. Now, if it snows then it's a different story, but I'd personally love to see that since it turns into more of a ground game.

    One other thing to consider is that balls have less air pressure in cold so they're slightly harder to throw (except for Brady) and easier to catch. Fumbles are less likely as well since players have better grip. It's a slight factor I guess but I wouldn't call it an advantage to either side since it shouldn't change their game-plan.
     
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  25. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Oh no doubt...they can't keep up with that machine in a shoot-out...everybody knows this, including Vrabel/Pees/Smith.

    I'm just saying, on that picture you posted, there are several guys that are open or about to be, and several defenders in the wrong place, and if they do that steadily Sunday, they won't have a prayer...IDC how good Henry's running and/or Tannehill's throwing.

    KC is happy to pass EVERY down. They only run to give their WRs a breather I honestly think. You gotta defend all that, all day, jesus...gotta hope for some tactical mistakes on KC's part, which they've shown they know how to do lol. There were some miscommunication plays in that divisional game as well. Have to take advantage and get some INTs if at all possible.

    The one thing I think Tennessee really has going for 'em, is the temperature. Secondly, clock control/management. Tennessee is a MUCH more physical team, and in 24 degrees, those hits start adding up quick. Henry plowing into guys in that weather...you hear about guys making "business decisions"...may be some of those come Sunday.

    I'm not worried about the Titans scoring...they can and should, in various ways. I'm worried about the Titans even being a speedbump to the Chiefs. I don't envy Pees' position...
     
  26. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Well, there is this little sliver of hope...

     
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  27. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Houston choked so bad honestly. Im suprised OBrien still has the job...

    That loss is going to stick with them for a long time.

    24 pts lead in the first half for a shot at the SB - just to blow it up in the 2nd half...wow that is horrible LOL.
     
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  28. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    This.
    Some people tend to think that the weather doesnt affect the pass game but I highly disagree. Ive seen alot of interviews from HoF QB where they openly admit that the grip and throws are much more difficult to make in cold weather. Hell, even HoF Brees said he doesnt have his best games in cold weather.

    Praying that Mahomes makes some mistakes and we can capitalize on that.

    Having said all that a 24 degree weather isnt that much of a big deal though. It shouldnt affect anything. If it was anything under 15 degrees than yes we are talking about something totally different.

    I remeber in 2016 under Mike Mularkey tenture here we faced KC at their house in a 6 degrees wether where they game came down to a 53 yard FG to win it. It was an ugly, slow, gritty game wich exactly favors Tennessee.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  29. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Passer rating leader answers the question “who was the most efficient passer in the NFL.

    It does not answer the questions of
    How did that person achieve that outcome?
    What are their strengths and weaknesses?
    Why did that player’s coaches draw up their offensive gameplans in the manner they did?

    Tannehill is capable of having a 40+ attempt game where he carries the team on his back. However that is not what he is best at. What he is best at is surgically punishing defenses for over-committing to a certain area of the field.
    The best way to beat Tannehill is to force him to play one dimensional football. We’ve seen it many times in Miami that if the offense becomes one dimensional and abandons the run that his efficiency falls flat.
     
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  30. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I would say that every QB that is forced into obvious passing situations behind a terrible pass blocking OL is in trouble. Unfortunately that was true in Miami far too often.
     
  31. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    With regard to the highlighted portion above, unfortunately all an opposing team needs to accomplish that is one of the league's best passing quarterbacks, who can produce lots of scoring (like Mahomes), in conjunction with a pass defense on Tannehill's own team that isn't capable of shutting down that quarterback (like the 2019 Titans). This is obviously why people here, the lone Tennessee fan included, are giving the Titans very little hope of winning that game.

    In terms of his team's ability to win a Super Bowl, that makes Tannehill no different from any average quarterback in the league, despite his 2019 passer rating. Contrast that with quarterbacks like Mahomes, who don't need a stellar pass defense of their own to shut down opposing QBs -- they can just outperform them themselves.

    Consequently Tannehill's 2019 passer rating has essentially become meaningless in distinguishing him from the average quarterbacks in the league, because he needs the same team ingredients around him to win a Super Bowl that they do!

    That isn't a QB you build around once he's making the salary he made with the Dolphins. The Dolphins made the right decision in moving on from him and targeting an elite QB, despite his 2019 performance.

    Average quarterbacks with average quarterback salary cap hits almost never win Super Bowls in the NFL.
     
  32. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Tannehill could definitely thrive in a pass happy offense. But you would have to give him a pass first roster. An offensive line that can pass block and at least two all pro receivers. Pass happy offenses require receivers getting open almost every play. You can't have a dolphins roster where the receivers are only open half the time.
     
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  33. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    The 2019 Titans were fourth in the league in pass-blocking win rate. He has a very good pass blocking offensive line right now.

    The question becomes whether he can keep pace with the Patrick Mahomses of the world, and that question centers on the quality of his own pass defense and its ability to stop those kinds of opposing QBs.

    So now not only do you need the offensive features necessary to support Tannehill, but you also need a top-notch pass defense. Good luck acquiring all of that personnel and sustaining it in the salary cap era.

    Again, this is why average quarterbacks who make average quarterback salaries almost never win Super Bowls in today's game.
     
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  34. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    yeah that was a bad read and he was late on the throw outside too. Should have banged the seam.

    jacksons pocket read stinks. Mahomes is gonna know where kelce is at all times you better believe it.
     
  35. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Thus far in the playoffs, the one aspect of these games that hasn't been discussed has been Tennessee capitalizing on turnovers.

    -Against the Patriots with only :13 left in the game, 1st and 10 on the 1 yard line and Tennessee having only 1 timeout left, the Patriots elect to throw, being intercepted and returned for the go ahead touchdown, rather than a QB sneak, which Brady has been so effective in doing during his career. Stupid on the Patriots part but still...a score on turnover.

    Against the Ravens...
    -The Titans intercept Jackson in the 1st quarter and march down the field on an 8 play drive scoring a touchdown on Tannehill's pass to Smith.
    -The Titans stop Jackson on a 4th and 1, stunning everyone that Jackson didn't make the 1st down and immediately capitalize on the Ravens' demoralizing stop by scoring a touchdown on the first play with a 45 yard touchdown pass by Tannehill to Raymond.
    -In the 3rd quarter, the Titans again stop Jackson behind the line of scrimmage on a 4th and 1 and march down the field on a 6 play, 81 yard drive scoring on Derrick Henry jump pass to Davis.
    -With 6:54 left in the 3rd quarter, Lamar Jackson fumbles and is recovered by the Titans. The Titans take the ball and score on a 6 play drive topped off by a Tannehill run on the 1 yard line.

    Four turnovers by the Ravens and 4 touchdowns by the Titans. So many times, team fail to capitalize on mistakes by the opposing team. The Titans, particularly in this past game against the AFC's number 1 seed and highest scoring offense didn't fail. For those who actually watched the game, you could literally see the demoralization on the faces of the Ravens each time the Titans scored.

    Now all I'm offering here is analysis, not any predictions but the Titans' defense has been instrumental in setting up their offense for success and when those opportunities have been presented, the Titans' have seized them. This team has gotten better and better as the season has progressed and is the team that no one wants to play.

    The more and more the Chiefs put the ball in the air, the more opportunities they're going to give the Titans defense to make a game changing play and let's be honest, the team that turns the ball over the least in the playoffs tend to win the game.
     
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  36. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree with that. Hard to replicate the next week.
     
  37. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I think part of that pass blocking win rate probably has to do with teams focusing on their run game fairly heavily.

    I'd be interested in their win rate when the team has been forced to pass more. I think that would go hand in hand with your previous assertion that Tannehill is worse when forced to pass more by at least including a second variable into the scenario.

    FWIW I'm not saying it proves your assertion if their win rate is relatively the same, just that it's one piece of data to incorporate into the overall evaluation.
     
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  38. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    That pick-six against the Cheatriots wasn't to give them the lead, they were already up by 1...it did add icing on top though...game was already over. Brady's not getting 70 yards in :15 for a game-winning field goal on that night. Maybe 2007 Brady with Randy Moss...not now.

    But ya they've been very good at turnovers...top 10 in differential on the season, and probably even better in the playoffs. And they've DROPPED at least 3 sure interceptions so far. They seem to have their fair share of opportunities.

    The Titans will more than likely give the Chiefs a much tougher game on defense...Houston kinda gave a lot away with mistakes, busted coverages, not finishing. I'm sure they'll have busted coverages, those KC weapons are elite, but they'll play a much more disciplined flavor of defense than Houston.

    Even then, it almost feels like the Titans need planetary alignment to pull this one off. Andy Reid will have some wrinkles, but so will the Titans. Evidently they've been practicing some "wow" trick plays, according to one reporter (didn't go into details, of course). They'll need to play their best brand of football (including Henry, Tannehill and the defense/special teams) in addition to razzle-dazzle to get to the Super Bowl. More of those "all around team efforts" they've been getting lately.
     
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  39. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    My mistake on the Patriots game, you're right.

    I think "everyone" is already writing off the Titans on this game and they may very well lose the game, but I don't truly believe it's going to be blowout like so many seem to think it will be.
     
  40. Cashvillesent

    Cashvillesent A female Tannehill fan

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    Well lets see...

    Kelce > jonnu smith
    Sammy watkins > corey davis
    Hill is probably still better than AJ (still a rookie)

    Mahomes has weapons all over the field, Tanny does not.
     
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