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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dirtylandry, Aug 9, 2016.
of those 7 years, Jimmy Johnson was 4 of them
Sounds about right to me. He hasn't proven anything yet. If he wants to be ranked higher, he should try turning the ball over less and taking fewer sacks.
This a very fair assessment of where he is now. I however think he has the potential within the Gase offense (EP my fav offense) to make some big strides into the top 10-12 range. He's a very fickle QB, because he does somethings that make you feel like he has "arrived" then he will follow it up with 4 games of which he oddly seems to disappear. Which for a QB? That is rarely something said.
He isn't going to turn into a QB who can win games without help, we as fans should accept that. But he can certainly elevate his play enough to have a bigger effect on the outcome of these games.
If not? We have to move on and hope we find a guy that can...even if it takes another 16 years.
He doesn't really turn it over all that much though. Agree 100% with the pocket presence....it needs to get better.
Turn the ball over less? He has a career INT% of 2.4, which is among the better numbers in the league since he was drafted, and one of the lowest numbers ever for a QB in his first four seasons. Picking that area to harp on is barking up the wrong tree.
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Exactly. What he really needs to do is to throw more touchdowns.
Keep in mind, most of these same evaluators dont have Tier 1 QBs themselves.
It's a fair assessment of what Tannehill has done.
Is it a fair assessment of what Tannheill is capable of? That's the $64,000 question for Dolphins fans.
I think Tannehill has shown he is capable of being a tier 2 QB, but has been held back by coaching and a poor OL. With a better OL and more consistent coaching (in particular not abandoning the run when behind) I think Tannehill could easily have a 100 passer rating this season. However, this is basically his put up or shut up year.
Yeah, I know...according to the numbers he doesn't throw that many INTs. But they seem to come at back-breaking times for us when they happen. And so do the fumbles, though he has managed to cut those down. Only 2 last season, down from 4 the season before.
Yes, according to the numbers...the only way to look at how many ints he's thrown.
Most interceptions are back breaking. They are devistating plays.
No QB can win with a **** oline, abandoned running game, bad coaching and not allowed to audible.
If giving him just a few of those things is a QB needing help to win, then EVERY QB IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLd is a QB that needs help to win.
He never has been the QB people gave him credit for.
Said it before, I'll say it again. At the end of the day THill will be the best of the three 1st rd QBs selected that yr. RG3=Browns Luck is out of it and THill is a 4k passer on a young and hungry team.
EVERY QB needs a good D and running game to win it all, duhr.
When did I say that? Try to follow the discussion better please, it's about QBs need help to win and hence Marino never had that so the Dolphins struggled to win games during his tenure here, that's not even disputable for one of all the time greats to finish his career with an average of 8.6 wins per season, you might want to think that's successful but for Marino it is not, I'm sure he would say it wasn't. Manning finished his career with an average of 10.9 wins and that includes his three win season in his rookie season.
And this all relates to Tannehill, whose struggles have a lot to do with him but it also has to be with the little support he gets especially when it comes to how putrid his offensive line has been every year.
Why would you be a dick and leave out this part of the sentence "during one six year run"?
That six-year run I'm referring to is from 1986 to 1991 when his win totals were 8,7,6,8,12,8....this started when Marino was 25 till he was 30, I remember these years well, no run game and worst defense in the NFL year in and year out during his PRIME YEARS. We wasted it giving him little to no help, hell he threw SIX TDs in one game and LOST.
The league has changed so much since marino retired.The rule changes have turned this into a passing league and in my opinion marino would have led this team to numerous playoff appearences during the tannehill era.Tannehill will never be the type of Qb to lead his team to anything without elite players around him.
Marino had elite players, he arguably had the top WR tandem in the league in Duper & Clayton and while his OL was not a great running line they did protect him quite well, at least much MUCH better protection than Tannehill had been afforded. But one must consider that sick release by Marino helped himself.
But I'm not looking to get into a comparison of Marino and Tannehill, at this point, or any point for that matter, is ridiculous. I'm just showing even the great QBs struggle to win when their team talent is below average.
What seven years are you talking about? 12,14,11,8,8,6,8,12,8,11,9,8,9,10,9 that is pretty dang good compared to what has been the past 7 years.
to imply in any shape or form that Marino was not a winner is just insane. There is no question he lifted those inferior teams to winning records.
Uh, right here "Even Marino couldn't win without a running game and a legit defense on the other side" marino never had a good running game and the majority of his defenses were horrible. Still as pointed out he performed in the top tier of QB's, there were no excuses made for him.
If you can't even comprehend your own statements, there is no way you can comprehend mine.
More INTs would be a good sign to me, lol, as it would probably mean he's being less conservative. The area to harp on is his ypa. He doesn't have enough impact on the game on a per-throw basis. This has been the issue with him since college.
i never understood why lazor always kept tannehill in the pocket, knowing our oline sucks and tannehill can just hold the ball at times.
really hoping they let him roll out and create time to throw.
If he didnt reply to my posts i might actually believe that lol
Agreed, when Tannehill was able to roll out it seemed like he made things happen, hopefully Gase will change that kind of thinking.
Yeah, I think that's a pipe dream. Marino may have put up better numbers the last couple of years than Tannehill (obviously, I mean a young developing QB in a ****ty situation vs a HoF QB with the best pure arm talent ever), but I dont think even Marino would have "numerous" playoff appearances over the last four years. Marino probably makes the playoffs in 2012, with that defense, but it's gets more and more questionable the next three seasons.
12. 13 and 14. and maybe 15 imo, QB17 played very bad vs 2 so-so teams in 13, 2 win and you're in games, QB17 has never played with D's as bad as Dan had to deal with, nor has he played with such crappy run teams.
Marino carried really bad teams to 500 and better records.
Our defense in 2015 and the second half of 2014 was atrocious.
I don't agree with atrocious, below avg yes, big problem was the O's inability to sustain drives.
7th, 1st, 4th, 1st, 7th, 17th, 15th, 14th, 6th, 8th, 5th, 3rd, 7th, Marino/Shula led Fins 10 out of 13 years top 10 in scoring, with the lowest being 17th, with no run support.
27th, 26th, 11th, 27th, QB17 Fins with good run support, if a bit underused at times, dwelling in the scoring basement besides 1 year almost making top 10.
An O that doesn't sustain drives will always make the D look worse than it really is.
Because Tannehill had a "down" year last season. Everyone was high on Tannehill this time a year ago. He was even on the Sports Illustrated cover for fantasy football.
Which is why I shake my head at all the people who have written him off. One below average season and people have forgotten about the upward trajectory he had before.
He did alright with Moss.
I don't even know why people care so much about downfield throws. They're low-percentage to begin with and there aren't many quarterbacks who are elite at it anyway.
They'll be there sometimes to hit, and that will be awesome, but it's much more important for Tannehill to be hitting the short and intermediate throws consistently and having the receivers get some YAC.
Non-sequitor. Wilson converts a high % of drop backs into scrambles. A spread offense would open up lanes for him even more. So long as Wilson can run he will be able to dictate coverages and be successful. Half of a team's coverage schemes can't be used against Wilson.
You will find that there is contingent of every football team fanbase, that obsesses over a stat/trait/concept that their particular QB is bad at. Those stats, will then become in those people's minds, the most important stat for a QB.
With Marino it was scrambling. With Thill it is the "deep ball".
If that doesn't work, then those people will change definitions of those stats/traits/concepts. For example, up until Wallace's first season, no one anywhere argued deep ball meant 20+ yards. After Wallace, people here argued that a deep ball is 40+ yards. Up until a few weeks ago, "clutch" meant performing better than your normal level in pressure situations. Since then, "clutch" is now performing under your normal level down by 7 pts or less, but just not less than normal then the league average.
Its why I'm stupid for even trying to bring common sense and logic to these people.
Agree with you 100%. I look at efficiency, not volume stats.
Derek Carr was in his 2nd year. Tanny his 4th.
I think they're looking just at last year's performance. Otherwise Dalton is rated way too high. But last year yes Newton was tier 2, and so was Dalton.
Of course.. the one problem with that argument is Luck, but otherwise I think it's just last year.
Cam Newton was great at what he did last season. He was highly effective in their offense, and the team got to the Super Bowl. I wouldn't list him as a top tier QB though. So much of what he does relies on improvisation and athletic ability, and not passing skill. To me, he wouldn't be as reliable or dependable on many other teams, and therefore cannot be a tier one.
Wilson would look awesome!
pretty simple actually, it spreads out the defense and makes it easier to move the ball; also can't stack the box. The Dolphins dink and dunk and defenses really only played within a 20 yard window. Makes it very hard to drive down the field and score.
I thought Adam Gase had a great response to this in today's presser.
I'm paraphrasing, but he said the NFL is about living in the 10 yard range now. The only 2 teams that don't are Arizona and Pittsburgh. He's right.
Most offenses now excel there.
I think what I respect about this TC is his incessant importance laid on gaining yards to manage 3rd downs and his continued importance placed on RZ offense.
He gets it. Touchdowns and 3rd downs are what wins games.
Exactly. Move the chains, don't turn the ball over, and execute in the red zone. Our team hasn't done a great job of #1 and #3 the last few seasons, but if they do those three things, then the deep ball is among the lowest of priorities.