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Ross Should Have Let Philbin Go...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Apr 28, 2014.

  1. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Right now Tannehill is a middle of the pack NFL QB. So I'm not sure how that equates to Philbin having done a great job in developing Tannehill so far. Perhaps Tannehill will still develop into a quality QB in the NFL, but I think that will probably have a lot more to do with the addition of the new OC and not because of Philbin. Especially when it appears that if he had gotten what he wanted, Sherman and Turner would still be on this coaching staff.
     
  2. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see the link where Ross tells Philbin to fire Sherman. Was that just made up?
     
  3. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Please...anybody who doesn't think Philbin was forced to fire his longtime friend is as naive as our clown *** owner.
     
  4. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I wasn't saying it was some great measure. People kept asking what Philbin did well besides being well organized and I gave something he does well. And being one of the least-penalized teams is still a good thing even if you want to say championship type teams have been highly-penalized the last few years. There are also a bunch of teams who are constantly high in penalties and have sucked for a long time (Oakland).

    Being disciplined may not give us an extra 3 or 4 wins a year, but it certainly helps on a game by game basis when we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot time and time again with penalties. It absolutely is important.

    And the only two teams who had less penalties than we did last season were New England and Indianapolis. Two teams at a place we all would love to be right now.
     
  5. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, you fantasize the narrative and with full knowledge accuse others of naïveté for not supporting the fiction. This betrays your own lack of reasonable defense, and should be rightly left in dreamland with whatever sycophants join you.
     
  6. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I'm willing to give Philbin one more year for the simple reason that I don't want to give up on Tannehill yet. But if neither of them progresses this season, they should both be gone.
     
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Tannehill clearly progressed from year one to year two, and probably had the best single season of any Fins QB since Marino. He's in his mid 20's. And some of you guys want to dump him and start over...
     
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  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure what Philbin's role is in Tannehill's development. At least from a positive standpoint, I mean. He takes a hands-off approach to the X's and O's elements, and some of those were done so poorly as to necessitate his intervention, which didn't seem to happen.

    You can(and should) find better coaches from both the standpoint of running a team and from developing quarterbacks.
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Tannehill got better from year 1 to year 2. Our record improved from year 1 to year 2. Our quality of play got better from year 1 to year 2. We have no problem attracting FAs anymore. He wanted Martin replaced. He wanted Cogs gone.

    This Philbin hate is so bizarre to me.
     
  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This is just as much a justification for Sherman keeping his job as Philbin.

    I'm not sure how much of a feather in his cap wanting to get rid of Jon Martin is, considering Philbin likely was the one that wanted to get rid of Karlos Dansby. Philbin's track record with veteran personnel is a negative IMO.
     
  11. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill improving to a level that doesn't preclude him from being a disappointment isn't inherently reflective of good coaching, or really even serious growth as a player.

    An improvement of a single win to .500 isn't cause for any degree of celebration, especially in the context of the end of the season.

    There wasn't problems attracting free agents, but there was even more embarrassing problems attracting a GM and offensive coordinator, which isn't any less troubling.

    I'm not really sure why anyone has any particular affection for Philbin. He's not very good at his job.
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I don't see how. Calling the right play at the right time was Sherman's problem. Tannehill can still improve if the plays aren't called correctly.

    That makes no sense at all. Number 1 you're speculating about Dansby & Philbin with virtually no evidence. Secondly, even you're right about Philbin on Dansby it has nothing to do with Martin at all, on any level. You might as well say if Philbin doesn't like Snickers he probably doesn't prefer Fords to Chevys.
     
  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    There is nothing to indicate that Philbin was any more responsible for Tannehill's improvement than Mike Sherman.

    The same degree of evidence that exists for Martin, exists for Dansby. We have reports from sources, which are virtually the same as the reports that Philbin wanted Dansby gone.

    Wanting to get rid of Dansby doesn't have anything to do with Martin in particular. However, it does have a lot to do with the pattern we have seen of the team jettisoning quality veteran players. You can tie that back into Philbin getting steamrolled by Bush, Long, and Dansby on national TV, the subsequent actions of the team in regards to those players, and the complete lack of leadership within the team last season.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Sure, in a vacuum. However, considering how few starts Tannehill had, the fact that he not only improved significantly but also avoided the sophomore slump is not a small thing. Its as if you're looking for reasons to marginalize the obvious improvement.

    Who is celebrating? I'm simply saying the team did improve overall. The record and level of play showed that. Again, you're looking for reasons to marginalize the job he has done so far because of the last two games. You act like good coaches don't have team meltdowns or never have disappointing games or seasons.

    There was a problem attracting free agents. There was no problem attracting OCs though. I'm not sure where that came from at all.

    As for the GM thing, we were turned down by Caserio & Farmer (so they could actually stay were they were). Licht didn't turn down the job, he turned down another interview for a guaranteed job. None of that had anything to do with Philbin.

    Again, I point out things that have actually happened, QB improves, team improves, FAs want to come here and you say none of those mean anything and he sucks. These are tangible improvements, in fact the most important improvements, and you disregard them.

    If we have an even better record this year, Tannehill improves even more, are you still going to maintain Philbin sucks? If we do **** the bed, I'll admit I was wrong about Philbin.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I didn't say there was. The argument was that Philbin had nothing to do with Tannehill improving, but every bad thing that happened was his fault. All i did was point out two things, 1. That tannehill did in fact improve with Philbin has HC. 9Which is rare for this team since the 2000's). 2. Sherman could have also hurt tannehill's development.

    No there isn't.

    No it doesn't. There's no pattern. Your argument doesn't make sense. If you want to argue that Long & Bush showed a pattern that explains getting rid of Dansby, then fine. Martin had nothing to do with that nor did he ever steamroll Philbin. Philbin wanted a better player for LT. In fact, the reports were never that he wanted Martin off the team, just that he wanted a better LT.
     
  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    And both the things you're pointing out could apply the other way just as much: 1. Tannehill improved with Sherman as his OC. 2. Philbin could have also hurt Tannehill's development.

    Both have been cited by reporters.

    Jon Martin was the result of a lockerroom devoid of leadership. Coincidentally, the three leaders that challenged Philbin on national TV the previous season were all jettisoned.
     
  17. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    The one thing about Philbin that troubles me the most is that he came to the Dolphins with experience as an offensive line coach and as an offensive coordinator and that was two areas that Miami really struggled with. Probably the worst offensive line in Miami Dolphin history, with not only having a record number of sacks but also a very anemic running game. You can say that the coaches who were mainly responsible are gone but they were still answerable to Philbin and that was Philbin's area of expertise.
     
  18. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can't honestly say I've seen a report that says Philbin wanted Dansby was cut. I know there is a lot of speculation that Dansby was cut for his role on the leadership council but Dansby himself attributes it to his age.

     
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  19. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Beat reporters have cited that Dansby and Burnett were both cut at the behest of Philbin.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Not even sure what you're arguing anymore. The simple fact of the matter is that our QB has improved under the watch of this HC. That hasn't happened here in very long time. It doesn't matter if Sherman helped him or hindered him, cause either way Tannehill improved. If Sherman helped him, then you can thank Philbin for hiring Sherman. If Sherman hurt him, then you can blame him for bringing in Sherman, but still thank Philbin for having everything else in place that Tannehill could improve in spite of Sherman....because at the end of the day, he did improve.

    No, the Dansby business was speculated by reporters and posters here. The Martin stuff was cited in our lounge months before it was cited in the papers after the season was over.

    You've just changed the argument. You were arguing that wanting Martin gone was a part of a pattern established by Philbin that he somehow hates vets. Now you're saying its not a pattern and more because one is gone there was a void, that caused Martin to get bullied. (Meanwhile, on a side note let's not forget that many of the events that lead to martin's departure happened when Dansby, Burnett, Long & Bush were on the team, but hey, facts....amirite?)
     
  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's playing at a level which warrants a degree of optimism, but it's basically about where young, first round quarterbacks are expected to play at this point. It's nothing to laud the coaches about.

    I don't think a one-game improvement means you have a better team.

    In absence of basically a positive to outweigh it, yes, that end of the season collapse is very much an albatross around Philbin's neck.


    Depends on how much they improve and why? Tannehill improving would likely have little to do with Philbin and a lot to do with Lazor, so that as an avenue for success has little to do with him.
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Which is better than most QBs we've had since Marino and indicates an upward trajectory instead of a flat line or decline as has been the norm.

    It was more than a one game improvement though. We were a better team through and through and played better. Its why we were in it until the bitter end. its also why we're so hurt by that 2 game collapse, because all of us thought we had a shot at more. We only believed that because the team was better than it has been.

    FTR, I think it was a one game collapse (the Jets), because I don't think the talent on the team last year could beat Buffalo. We simply did not have the talent match ups against them.



    So, Philbin sucks because he hired Sherman but if Lazor is awesome that won't reflect on Philbin at all? Can you see why I think you're just looking for reasons to be negative?
     
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You attributed credit for Tannehill's improvement to Philbin. I'm curious why you never attributed the improvement to Sherman? This shouldn't be that difficult.

    Both have been cited by reporters. Not to mention there was a lot more specificity and circumstantial evidence surrounding Dansby's departure.

    No, Martin sabotaging his own team was the result of a pattern established by Philbin. The team was absolutely devoid of leadership, primarily because Philbin jettisoned those that challenged him.
     
  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    By what measure did the team play better exactly?
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    During the hard knocks stuff, I commented during those episodes that Philbin and Dansby were not seeing eye to eye, literally, Philbin would not look Dansby eye to eye for whatever reason, idk, but it was the case on a few occasions..it's not proof but it was enough for me to think twice about Philbins ability to communicate with Dansby, who was the leader of the defense at the time.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    One year later, the entire leadership council was jettisoned, lol, that's Pretty funny and crazy if you think about it, talked about it a lot last year...coincidence ? Football related?
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    It shouldn't be this difficult, but for some reason you're making it that way. I'm not going to talk in circles with you. I've very clearly explained my stance and why I made it. I didn't say it was all Philbin. it didn't say it wasn't Sherman. Maybe you should go back and actually read my posts.

    This simply isn't true. It was speculated and considerably more details were given to the martin thing because it lead to a huge falling out between Philbin & Ireland. Please stop trying to rewrite history simply because you think being contrary to everything posted is "good" for this site.

    I love to argue. I loathe arguing with people aren't being intellectually honest. Especially when that person is smart enough to win an argument without being that way.

    Just be honest enough to admit you went down the wrong path with your original argument (pattern of disliking veterans) and now you have an angle that makes more sense. (Even though it doesn't actually make more sense, because as I said, the majority of the stuff that went down happened with all those "veterans" on the team.)
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In defense of Tannehill, and I'm sure you know this, but coaches will tell you in the 2nd year of a young qbs tenure they only expect an even level of play from their first year, they don't won't a deviation to the downside, they believe that the same level from the rookie year is the improvement, now considering the disfunction, the lack of utilization of his own personal skillset, the really bad oline, and the lack of weapons, I would say that he did improve his play from his rookie year..

    I'm still trying to figure out if it's gonna be good enough to win a championship with,this year will tell us a lot..for him to be championship quality, I think he's gonna need to use his entire skillset consistently to defeat his opponent, and he must get quicker in everything he does.
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Beating every AFC playoff team we faced. Being in the hunt till the last game. Splitting (and almost sweeping) the Pats. If we didn't play better how come so many were expecting us to make the playoffs with 2 games to go? With one game to go? You can't be disappointed if we didn't have higher expectations till the end, which we did not have last year.
     
  30. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Philbin couldn't get Ireland to get rid of a guy who molested a woman at a team sponsored charity event who was worse (or equal) at his position as Dansby was to his. We need to stop pretending that Philbin had a lot of say with the roster.
     
  31. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The details were in fact contradictory. It was reported that the players on the team pleaded with Philbin to start Clabo over Martin, but Philbin ignored their pleas, and played Martin at RT.

    The Dansby thing is more than quite obvious to anyone with the capacity for critical thinking. His play was very much in line with his compensation and he fit the scheme. Him challenging Philbin was the only logical reason to cut him, and there have been reports to confirm it.


    There isn't a pattern of disliking veterans. There is a pattern of exiling the majority of the team's leaders. The team imploded when those leaders were gone.

    The "stuff that went down" was Jon Martin sabotaging the team.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Sigh. WTH are you talking about?

    - Before the offseason started, Philbin wanted Ireland to bring in another LT. Philbin did not think Martin was strong enough mentally or physically to handle the position full time.
    - Before the offseason started, Philbin wanted Ireland to cut Cogs for the charity event thing.
    - Ireland did neither of those things.
    - As the season wore on and the oline was killing us, tensions between the two increased.
    - By the time the scandal broke there was full on dysfunction between Ireland and Philbin.
    - Ross stepped in and forced Ireland to bring in a better LT.
    - Martin snapped when being "demoted" going to RT...for one game after which he left.

    This all came out in the Club and later it was confirmed in the media. The Dansby stuff was never confirmed.

    There is no pattern of "exiling" the team leaders by Philbin. Again, Philbin couldn't even get Ireland to get rid of Cogs. Dansby was released because they wanted a different skill set at the position and they wanted it cheaper and younger. This "leadership council" BS is essentially made up. If you recall they tried to keep Long, but Long left because of Ireland.
     
  33. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    You could have saved a lot of time simply saying "everything that was wrong was because of Ireland".
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I'm laying out confirmed facts in the order they happened. If that paints a picture you don't like, then you have a problem with facts.
     
  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    No, you're choosing to give more credibility to the reports that support your argument, and less credibility to the reports that do not. None of the things you listed are fact, aside from Martin leaving the team.
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Funny, you read this as a reason Philbin shouldn't be fired, and I see it as a reason he should be fired.

    It is still Philbin's locker room and he still wasn't able to control it.
     
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  37. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Not to mention the fact that a key responsibility of his is developing guys like Jon Martin into quality football players. Certainly the Jon Martin pick is a black eye on the front office, but the coaching staff also failed terribly at developing him as a player and person.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    No. Again, your Dansby bs was never confirmed. This stuff about Martin was.
     
  39. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Also, just to be clear, I don't think Philbin should be fired necessarily. I am fine with letting him finish out his contract. I just don't see much positive from him so far. He appears to be very organized, and somewhat meticulous, but those are about the only real positive things I see.
     
  40. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Beat writers have confirmed that Philbin wanted Dansby cut.
     

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