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Roquan Smith

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Redwine4all, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be scuttlebutt that 3 tight ends are going in the first round. I’m not buying it but 3 in the top 50 yeah I can see it
     
  2. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, clean slate.

    Regarding ck's post I dont agree completely. We need both run and pass defense in base out of our sam. Not just pass. That's why we need an athletic thumper like Edmunds who can both take on and beat strongside blocks or cover tightends interchangeably. Smallish hybrids like garvin or smith will help to improve the pass defense, but they will be a vulnerability against the run at sam since they dont have the poa strength and abilty that we need there against the run.
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes I know Rilla..

    We took another guy who was as young last year.. he had much more instincts..
     
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  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Warped view of oneself..and completely transparent as to what your trying to do..

    If you want to go to the draft forum and make a bet then go ahead, let’s see how good you think you are
     
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  5. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    True but much more maxed out also.
     
  6. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Needs more play strength for take on. 1 year starter I’m betting on a good lb coach taking advantage of the frame and physical tools to develop it. He’s raw in a lot of regards from take on to stack and shed to dropping a lazy shoulder.

    He drops the shoulder with his head down and not much lead behind it.

    That play strength isn’t enough for strong right now. This is outside of maximizing his instincts one of the reasons I see him as a 2 years from now what do I have prospect.

    If he’s drafted top 20 given the work still needed it’s going to be about upside and frame for the position and every down athlete. Best fit mike.
     
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  7. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    He can cover TE'S and backs 1 on 1 because what makes him special are his fluid hips at that size.
     
  8. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Gase has to be targeting Gesicki, 41 1/2 inch vertical, lol...I think he's the best red zone weapon in the draft.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok so Edmunds gets bigger you think he’s gonna get quicker and faster?
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think he has issues changing direction laterally, he may able to cover a tight end sure, but that’s just a small part of the game..

    This is about trust.. eventually the player on the field has to be able to figure sh## out and not get played..

    Dude gets played in college a lot, whatta you think is gonna happens In the pros.?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018 at 6:45 PM
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  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Man my worst nightmare Rilla

    1) Edmunds
    2) Gisicki

    Please don’t tell me you want Jessie bates in the third .
     
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  12. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Try Justin Jones, NC State, DT; 6'2" 310 lbs.

    Bates in the fourth, lol.

    Let Raekwon figure **** out....
     
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  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maxed out physically?

    Raekwon doesn’t need to get stronger, lb for lb he’s without question strongest player on the team..

    so you imagining Edmunds at 6’5 260?
     
  14. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I see raekwon as maxed out physically. There’s not much 4.51 play speed on that college tape. Perimeter field range weakness in terms of meeting the ball laterally at the los and some short area cod tightness vs redirect.

    I like the player I like the instincts and poa but that play speed in the nickel looks suspect and that was before the knee injury in terms of range.

    Edmunds has a ton more upside. Yes he takes some false steps toward the los vs pa but that’s coachable way I see it.

    He’s 19 and he doesn’t really know what he’s doing yet and he’s still as good at the poa as you will ever find. If that’s not top 10 pick worthy what the hell is? 6 foot 4 250 and super fluid with cover skills and range.

    The ceiling is crazy. In terms of scheme ask I don’t think it gets any better
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018 at 11:07 PM
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Everything you and everyone else likes about Edmunds, is physical..I see where the mistake is being made I think.
     
  16. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    It's not just physical, although physical is very important and in terms of physical ability it doesnt get much better than edmunds for a linebacker. Aside from physical he also shows a good feel for working through traffic. He flows laterally much better than smith. He has great anticipation and awarness in coverage, and he is great at taking good angles and shooting gaps. He maintains his run fits and sheds better than any other lb in the draft.

    You are just trashing him because he occasionaly gets fooled by misdirection plays.
     
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  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    “Occasionally“ is the understatement of the year..this kid is lost and fooled heavily, every game.

    Your falling in love with size, and the look of, when he does see it correctly, he’s explosive to point B.

    Same thing happened with Stephone Anthony..

    Following his responsibility to the ball and finishing in a explosive manner happens during a game, lots of players can do that, you gotta know the difference of what that looks like compared to diagnosing on the fly and playing the game..

    Does that have to do with youth, I’m sure that’s a valid opinion, I just don’t want to take that risk over that amount of time..

    “Great awareness” On the field when refferring to Edmunds playing the game is very far from reality imo.
     
  18. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I will be shocked if Miami passes on Edmunds unless a qb or Derwin james falls in their laps.

    I see them running that card up for Edmunds if he’s there.

    If im Miami and I can get to 9 for one of my late 4s I’m doing it for edmunds. Getting in front of Oakland. Taking them out of the option
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018 at 1:25 PM
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  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don’t see it as a shock at all, they’re enough concerns for a GM to have a different opinion on the player.

    Your banking on upside and development of Instincts, the player is raw..
     
  20. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The more I think about the 19 year old excuse the more I wonder. Yes, he's only 19, but the guy has started a lot of college games. Is there really that big of a difference between a 20 yr old who has started 30 games and a 19 yr old that started 30 games? I don't think so.

    If Edmunds is there at 11 I would jump on him if I were the GM. However, I'd pick James or Smith before Edmunds. I love Edmunds potential and couldn't fathom passing him up if those 2 aren't there and he is, but I'd still be concerned.
     
  21. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I would rather see us draft the player that can come in an contribute right away. To me, the NFL is a win now league. It's not like basketball where you can tear it all down and take 3-5 years building it all back. I think this team is set up to win now. In the debate of Smith vrs Edmunds, I definitely think Smith is going to be an instant contributor whereas Edmunds looks more like a developmental player that could have high reward results further down the line. I'll be ultimately fine with whoever we draft at 11, and if it is in fact a linebacker I definitely want it to be one of those two.
     
  22. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're making this up. Otherwise, point it out specifically. And that should be an easy task to ask of you since you believe it happens so often.
     
  23. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You just can't help yourself....lol. Why not just call Deej a liar and be done with it?

    Nearly every single person who gets paid to grade players states that Edmunds has poor instincts. Are they lying, too?
     
  24. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Look, the kid is a freak of nature. He’s 6’5″, 250 lbs and has lots of speed and agility that isn’t normal for somebody that size. Are there lots of star potential in his future? Of course but the record needs to be set straight on this. Edmunds is a decent player right now. He’s 19-years old with two seasons of starting experience that included 202 tackles and 10 sacks. Yet evaluation of the tape shows an inconsistent player. He’ll make a handful of good plays and then get fooled on a few others. His instinct isn’t quite there and he also has some bad tackling habits.

    ----Erik Lambert


    ^^^^ This guy is "making this up".
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol..your a big boy, if you can’t see it, then look harder, and if you can’t see after that, stick to what your good at..
     
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  26. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    i personally think va tech does a poor job of preparing guys for the pros...so to me some of it can be pointed to coaching. they do a good job of getting max return for college level out of players but uva who doesn't win anywhere near as much as va tech puts out better pros

    I don't see the 19 as an excuse I just think Edmunds hasn't played a whole lot of football but again this pick is about the return 2 years from now...in 2018 he comes in starts at strong and competes with raekwon for nickel run...2020 is when I'd expect to see the full return on the player

    regardless he's plenty good enough to play right now and when you have that level talent at your exposure you live with the growing pains...miamis backers aren't protected enough for a roquan smith add anywhere other than weak. I don't think they will green light him for the scheme frankly.

    run that Edmunds card up if he gets to you.
     
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  27. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know what I'm watching. You don't understand VT's defensive scheme and player responsibilities; that's my point.

    You can't point it out or show numerous examples in multiple games b/c they are not there.

    I'm not saying it doesn't happen where he is fooled on occasion, but I'm refuting your statement that it's prevalent and frequent in every game. You can't defend your opinion with factual examples.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 10:52 AM
  28. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    im with Carmen and hitman on this one...the guy gets fooled sometimes on misdirection. takes some false steps forward. no biggie. with that length and speed he can drop out in a hurry anyways and get to depths a lot of guys can't...gets better with reps and recognition of what the opposition is trying to do to him. and even then it's not such a major issue...he attacks the los and the backfield and he does it in a massive hurry

    that stuff about not liking his tackling form I find completely off base...the guy gets the job done and when he fires that gun he is a missile. with that length and that poa pop plus the move athlete It's a chance I take in our scheme every damn time.
     
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  29. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Gotta love the google cut and paste rebuttals from team reporters with as much knowledge on football as Armando or Omar.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    fyi, in life, if your cool, and humble, and you want to be cool with each other {like ive been cool with you since your arrival} you don't start out asking for something by questioning someones integrity.

    I have my opinion on the player, you keep yours, we will see in the long run..im not here to prove to you in the moment of what I see, im sorry you cant see it yourself, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.
     
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  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    grow up and stop creating discontent on the board..
     
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  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I understand what I’m seeing..I know I can identify natural instincts in a player
     
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  33. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I broke down a few clips explaining LB responsibilities in VT's defense explaining Edmund's attack steps toward the LOS, his continued press into the LOS despite PA, and why it's assignment sound.

    On the other hand, I've asked on multiple occasions for you to provide evidence of what you're seeing on Edmunds. Nonetheless, nothing. Why is that if you understand what you're seeing?
     
  34. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not sowing discontent, I was mocking "proof" of a post that was provided by a considerably unknowledgeable source.
     
  35. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    I’d like to see these break downs. Are they read run react to pass like Miami or is it more to it than that?
     
  36. danmarino

    danmarino Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No break downs. He must be “lying”. Lol
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don’t ask people to provide evidence of what they are seeing, I take my time because of how long I’ve been here, and match up their record on players and how they describe the talents, all that tells me whether I trust them or not..

    You thinking I’m making Up sh## about a good 19 year old kid is a joke.. not worth my response actually..and I’m not gonna even consider your request.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 7:53 PM
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  38. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You are exagerating Exmunds weaknesses and blowing it way out of proportion. Your statement that he is completely lost every game is ridiculous. Which is why carmen correctly called you out on it.
     
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  39. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    The majority of the people who get paid to analyse and scout also think edmunds is one of if not the best linebacker in the draft and predict him to go top 15 despite his occasional misreads.

    DJ has said edmunds is completely lost and terrible every game and that he wouldn't take him at all.

    Most experts and analysts agree more with me, hoops and carmen than they do with DJ regarding edmunds.
     
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  40. Hoops

    Hoops Well-Known Member

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    Might all be moot anyways. Daniel Jeremiah says in talking to decision makers etc consensus seems to be neither Edmunds or Roquan Smith get out of the top 10.

    Josh rosen seems to be the qb name for a fall. I’d run that card up at 11 also if the medical checks out

    Feeling more and more like Minkah Fitzpatrick gonna be the card at 11
     
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