Ronnie Brown underutilized as a receiver ?

Brown had Brown in such a position. I don't buy the extra motivation crap. That's nothing but an excuse for Cam in order to explain his inexplicable decision. Brown has always been a very hard runner and workhorse, he just didn't get the ball enough.

 

All i know is #23 can move the ball and move defenders when he gets hit. Gotta love that. Its Csonka style running. Added plus is Ronnies catching ability. Hard to use both otherwise we will wear him out.

 

Good stuff as always, thanks Crunch.

Watching these highlights, I don't see Marshall Faulk. Faulk was more of a shift, out in space player, not the big bruiser that Ronnie is. I also don't see any Brian Westbrook in Ronnie's game - If we were making a Faulk comparison the player closest, today, would be Westbrook. Seeing these highlights only confirms the guy I can see Ronnie developing into.

The guy I've always thought of when watching Ronnie Brown is Roger Craig. Ronnie has the same type of build (6'0, 225 lbs) as Craig. Craig was a power runner with an unusual knack for catching the ball out of the backfield. Brown is a power runner with underrated receiving ability. Craig was the first back to hit the 1000 yards rushing / 1000 yards receiving mark; Ronnie was on pace to hit that level last year prior to the injury. That brings up the only real difference between the two is trips to the trainer's office - Craig only missed 7 games during his 49ers tenure, while Ronnie has missed a total of 13 games in 3 years.

Here's hoping Ronnie can come back 100% from that injury and start making these plays for us next year at a Roger Craig-level. That would only be beneficial for a team looking to improve on 1-15.

 

Man I love watching Ronnie play. This guy can flat out play and make people look silly. Cant wait until next season.

 

I did not say the motivation factor was the reason for Cams decision. I only said it was a possible logical reason in the mind of our former head coach that your initial post does not consider in its conclusion. It was one of a few I pointed out and quite frankly I specified one as most realistic which you ignored in your rebuttal.

And at the time of his injury Brown

The dude got the ball a ton....

 

I think the Chargers are going to wanna hold on to Chambers. A good point was made about Gates and Tomlinson and how they are the focal point of the offense, but you still need that deep threat to open up the entire field. Tomlinson demands heavy attention from the LB's ofcourse.....Gates demands attention from the middle of the field, add Chambers to the equation you have a full fledged offensive machine. The kind of offense we as Dolphins fans dream of, you know....an offense where you only need a decent QB to be succesfull.

But yea....I'd love to have him back, when 'on' he could take over a game.

 

Absolutely he should. I loved seeing what Ronnie was doing last year when we got him involved in the passing attack. He's proven he has the skills. They would be insane not to use him in the receiving game, especially with our limited / unproven options at WR.

 

I think Ronnie has the feet of more of a Marshall Faulk type back than a Roger Craig. He's very light on his feet and very shifty. Now that's not to say he can't lower the boom when he has to. He's 225-230 pounds, so obviously he can do that when it's called for.

Anyway, I'd like to see at least a wheel route or two per game with him, if not the split-out-wide, down-the-field stuff. I think he could get some long gainers and/or scores on those. I mean if Tom Rathman can do it, so can Ronnie Brown. Send him out in the flat like usual, and then send him down the sideline long.

 

Outstanding thread CT, thanks for the GIF. Ronnie is a special talent, lets just hope our OC has the sense to utilize him more as a receiving back. We must also hope they are smart enough not to rush him back until he's truly 100% recovered.

 

ronnie proved that he bulldoze people but also is great in space. he has incredible hands. its really too bad that he got hurt

 

Bravo Crunch. Take a bow for that vid.

I can't wait to see what happens with Ronnie. My gut and homerness tells me that he saw how great he can be last season when hes in peak physical shape. Therefore, I would believe that he will be killing himself in the gym to get back to that level.

Now where do I take him in my fantasy draft? hmmm its a keeper league too. Hope he has grade A reports out of TC.

 

maaan how can you not LOVE to watch this guy play football...

i <3 ronnie brown

 

This is going to be Ronnie best year ever.

 

The Cowboys should move Zach to SS.

Yeah he led the league in TOS by more than a mile, hell he lead the league in TOS after he got hurt too.

Not this crap again....

 

I wasn't ragging on you man, just a general statement. Last year there was this whole "motivational" ploy drama that played out and everybody bought into it, then justified the theory based on the outcome. It went like this:

1) RB comes into OTAs at his normal playing weight of 235 to 240 - the same weight he had played at for two years - the same weight he'd carried to churn out 4 YPC and bust off several 50/60/70 yard runs; all this several months befor camp would even begin.

2) Rumor mill gets churning; everyone's suddenly concerned that RB is soft; fat; slow; etc.

3) RB reports to TC at 225; teamates comment in local papers that he's working harder than anyone at camp and is in peak physical condition.

4) Rumors abound that Chapman will take over the lead role at HB during training camp; Cameron makes several comments in local papers suggesting he's not yet convinced that RB is the MAN at HB.

5) Cameron desides to insert RB into Kickoff Return duties; risking his most talented player and ball carrier; adding fuel to the thought that RB isn't the clear cut HB in Cameron's eyes and that he doesn't think much of RB's capabilities.

6) Cameron splits carries between RB and JC during the first two games of the year; thus solidifying the fact that Cameron still doesn't see RB's capabilities as "lead back" type quality. The public assumes that Cameron has a master plan to turn RB into an ultra motivated super elite back, despite his obvious laziness and lack of any sort of recordable motivation (rolling of the eyes)....except this DolFan isn't buying it.

7) JC suffers an ankle sprain/hamstring pull/or whatever and RB starts getting more carries and receptions on an anemic offense that couldn't pass it's way out of a wet paper bag.

8) RB reels off three straight games of over 200 all purpose yards, averaging about 5 YPC and about 75 to 100 receiving yards per game.

9) People now assume the following: (Cameron's master motivational plan) + (RB's sudden rise to success and fame) = Cam was right on the money.

IMHO, what really happened here was as follows:

1) Cam mis-judged RB's talent and potential but simultaneously overestimated the talent of one JC.

2) To push RB to become better, Cam employed silly tactics with RB including the KR duties and splitting carries with JC.

3) Only when JC went down with a broken wheel did Cam say "OK, we'll give RB the ball full time".

4) With the entire offense failing, and the only sparks coming when RB touched the ball, Cam finally decided to feed him the ball in a way that the previous two OCs had not, and RB finally put up some eye popping numbers in a way that he always could have had he been given the damn ball.

5) What happened after that is Ronnie Brown showed us all what he as always been capable of but had not been given the opportunity. It has been well documented that RB was underutilized by Linehan and Mularkey, averaging in the neighborhood of 17 carries per game at about 4.2 YPC. To me, the math was simple: More Carries for RB x same impressive YPC = Tons of yards for RB and a pro bowl type season in the making.

There, I got that off my chest.

 

That post was a work of art

 

Thanks brother. That topic really just irked me to no end and, well, I had to let loose some. Cam getting props for what I considered one of his most splendid blunders is laughable. If we, as fans, could see that RB had elite, if not unfulfilled potential, then any NFL coach who couldn't should be fired; and that's exactly what happened. That may not be THE reason, but I like to think it played a role.

 

I also believe Trent Green said that Ronnie needs to get his carries on a radio interview

 

I don't think there was every any rumor whatsoever that Chatman would take the lead role away from Ronnie Brown in training camp. I just don't think StLouisFinsFan's point #4 is accurate. I also think point #6 is inaccurate because Ronnie Brown took like 70 or 80% of the carries in the Cowboys game. They only split carries in the Redskins game.

I think how it played out is how it shows to have played out. Cam actually wanted to feature Ronnie more in the Cowboys game because he had a great week of practice. But, the game got away from their game plan. At that point, Cam decided to feature the guy more hell or high water.

 

Ronnie is a beast! I hope he's fully recovered! Nice video, gets me excited for this season!

 

I distinctly recall numerous, and I mean numerous, and heavily debated threads among the Finheaven patrons that JC would be splitting carries with RB at the very minimum, and would possibly take the role outright. I also recall several articles from the local papers where the topic was at least touched on and/or hinted at. This discussion was occuring amidst the whole "Ronnie Brown is a bust" saga being played out amongst the DolFan faithful, and while much of what I infer is rooted in the public's/fan's opinion of JC vs. RB, this sentiment was fueled in large part by subtle yet repeated comments from Cameron to start off the pre-season, then totally blown out of control when Cam started inserting RB into KR duties in the pre-season games and started actually splitting carries with JC. I'm not making this up; it was a very heated debate that raged for many many months last year. I remember it vividly as the whole idea of calling RB a bust was absurd in my mind, and the idea that JC should be the starter was even more insane. Maybe you weren't involved with those particular discussions (although I do recall you posting on several occasions as to RB's strength's and weaknesses within these same posts), but that doesn't mean they weren't occuring.

And when I stated that they "split" carries the first two games of the season, I was entirely accurate, as I didn't specify the percentage distribution, you assumed I meant 50/50. In my mind, it matters not that one game was 50/50 and the other was 70/30 or 60/40 or whatever; Ronnie Brown should not have been giving up ANY carries outside of a breather, particularly in the first two games of the season when the legs are fresh and you're trying to establish a rhythm. I don't care what kind of game plan Cam had that would have justified splitting carries between the two; it was inherently flawed b/c you took the ball out of a supremely talented players hands and put into a less talented players hands. That would be like having two starting pitchers rotate innings during the first month of the season, and one of the hurlers is a highly promising talent. It's irresponsible and inexcusable.

 

Well then I think you're really mashing together two different subjects.

Yes, there was active debate over whether or not Ronnie Brown was set to become a bust. Yes, there was active debate about whether Ronnie's running style fit Cameron's system.

But I consider that completely independent of supposed rumors that Jesse Chatman will take the lead in carries from Ronnie in training camp and beyond. I don't think those rumors even really existed. And I was here too, I remember the environment just as well as you do. I was right in the thick of all of that, arguably more so than any other message board poster in all of FinHeaven (since I'm pretty sure I had the most posts of anyone on the topic of the Miami Dolphins, at that time).

And if you think that 3 carries for Chatman to 11 carries for Brown (which is 80/20) qualifies as a "split" backfield, then you at the very least have to acknowledge that pretty much every team in the NFL runs a "split" backfield. Well, you'd have to acknowledge it if you actually cared about being right as opposed to wrong, anyway.

 

This is getting way too complicated. Here's my point:

"Rumors abound that Chapman will take over the lead role at HB during training camp" = enough posters kicking it around on FH that it pissed me off to no end.

Maybe I should have used the term "Heavily debated discussions and arguments", but then again, I didn't think anyone would let terminology get in the way of understanding the underlying sentiment of that post, which was that Cam made a huge error in flirting with the idea of having RB be anything but the featured back. Maybe you don't think that's what he did, but I do, and we'll leave it at that.

 

Just so that I'm not accused of making things up, here are some quotes from historic posts (didn't provide a link out of courtesy for this sight):

1) July 14, 2007 Post

Chatman could unseat Brown!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lorenzo Booker will be used more like Reggie Bush was used rather than RB back up.

Chatman on the other hand will line up in the I and pound inside, but has the burst to break outside.

Should RB fumble here and there, and Chatman continue to eat yardage like he has in the past as SD, we could see a running back controversy.

Not that Miami would dump a high paid, under producing #2 overall draft pick with a high cap hit, but it would be interesting to see what happens if Chatman proves just a productive yet more durable and versatile than Ronnie-the-bust-Brown.

2) July 14 2007 Post: I think Chatman and Brown are interchangeable with virtually no difference. In fact, I like Chatman a little better because he has more burst.

3) May 30 2007 Post: Lorenzo Booker will steal his carries by mid season.....Brown has good games but i can tell u Booker might get the starting job later in the years

4) May 29 2007 Post: RB will have diminishing role in this offense as Lorenzo Booker gets comfortable with NFL pace and Cams offense. Brown, as a second overall selection is a BUST. If he was drafted in the second round then I can say he's a nice player but a franchise back??? no way.

Now, I may have had a different take on these sort of discussions, but that's how I read the situation. And again, these "rumors/discussions/arguments" were just one piece of the bigger puzzle that I was putting together, which is that Cameron committed a huge, albeit short lived, blunder by underutilizing RB and it damaged his credibility in my mind.

 

The terminology did screw me up a bit. I differentiate heavily between stuff that is rumor and stuff that is just being discussed or argued. To me, a rumor is sourced in someone close to the organization, in the organization, etc., and aims to tell you what will happen. Everything else is just logical speculation, at best.

 

I understand the difference in the two terms. But the fact that the sentiment we're discussing here, that JC, or LB for that matter, might be given a more pronounced role with RB taking a less prominent role, was only discussion until one Mr. Cameron began actually giving us reason for concern with the KR duties and then giving JC the ball during entire drives, not just spot breaks, but entire drives in a very tight Washington game in which RB only got 4 more carries than JC. Again, I don't care if it was just the one game; you DON'T even flirt with the idea of splitting carries when you're blessed with a talent like RB, not even for one game, not when every game counts.

 

The problem was, to that point, Ronnie Brown had not shown him that talent. Not in practice, and not during the games. He had a dramatic improvement in his practicing the week heading into the Dallas game and they thought they'd like to feature him more, but then the game got away from them and they spend something like 70% of their plays in the two-minute drill. He had another good week of practice before the Jets game and the game didn't get away from them the same way the Dallas game did, so they were able to feature him more.

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playb...y_by_play&season=2007&week=REG2&override=true
What I remember was not that Jesse stole carries from Brown, but after the 2nd half started they led of with a great drive, with Ronnie carrying the load. They score a TD go up 13-10. They run him just one more time on the next drive, going pass, run, pass. Not too bad.

What happens next is what infuriates fans. Ronnie was holding his helmet essentially until late in the 4th quarter. next drive, with the Dolphins just down 17-13, it's three shotguns in a row. Punt. Next drive, Deep pass to chambers. Satele Fumbles on next snap. At that point the game gets away. But down 17-13 with ROnnie holding his helmet on the sideline, that's just stupid.

 

And what I remember is that at that point the Dolphins decided to go with a passing attack aimed to victimize some of the weaker defenders in the Cowboys' secondary, and it should have worked because Chambers was wide open for a long touchdown but for Trent Green's inability to hit the broad side of a barn, misfiring on the throw and throwing it right into the hands of Ken Hamlin.

After that, the other stuff was all hot two minute drill. The game had gotten away from them. There was only one drive really where they got away from the balanced attack where they could have still afforded to use it. The other drives, they were no longer afforded the luxury of a balanced attack, because of down, distance, clock and score.

 

Saying that Ronnie hadn't shown Cam the talent is the same thing as saying Cam just was not seeing the talent. It's the chicken/egg thing at the very least. But I would posit that RB had already established himself as a talented back. He had spent two years in the league showing what he was capable of when given the ball. His quality YPC showed that he could move the chains. His collection of long runs showed he could break away. His low overall stats showed he just didn't get enough carries. And so I say "egg came first", or that Cam just wasn't seeing what was already there. What we all, as fans, could see clear as day. I can honestly say I didn't see a huge, if any, difference within RB's running style last year versus previous years; I just saw more touches. I saw a rhythm established. Cam should have been able to see his talent; it was crystal clear to all of us. Why not him?

 

Considering all of the controversy that surrounded Ronnie Brown and whether or not he'd be a bust, prior to 2007, I think it's a bit disingenuous to pretend that his overall talent level was plain as day for all to see and Cameron was the only guy that wasn't seeing it.

 

The controversy surrounding Ronnie Brown, as propogated by many a narrow minded fan during the pre-2007 stages, was whether or not he would be considered a "bust" relative to his draft position, not relative to him being good enough a half back to beat out the likes of JC or LB, and not relative to whether or not he was a very talented player. I think the VAST majority of all fans, many whose opinions I would value highly, saw that we had something special in RB, but that he just needed to get the damn ball more than 15 times a game or so. If Cam made his split carries with RW, fine, I can see the point, but Jesse Chatman? Sorry, I just can't swallow that. That was Cam's strike one with me, with strike two being the 4th quarter of the Texans game when he abandoned the run on the potential game winning drive, and strike three being his handling of Beck (not letting him start the Buffalo game at home; then inserting him into a road game against Philly, then pulling him). Cam was a nice guy, and a great offensive coordinator, but a HC he was not.

 

Well, much of the NFL head coaches out there disagree with giving one halfback 90% of the touches, especially if he's not quite shown himself to be "special". You're admitting there was plenty of controversy about whether or not he was proving to be a special back, but saying even if he wasn't he was good enough to be gettin 90% of the touches or so. Well, a bunch of the NFL coaches out there disagree with that approach. That includes the current coaching staff, by the way.

Truth is Cameron had the correct approach to that question, a dynamic approach to it. Whether or not he goes with the one guy 90% of the time or two guys really depends on how good and dependable the one is relative to the backup. It is entirely possible that Cameron also noticed that Ronnie Brown had missed action in each of the past 6 years, and he wanted to share touches with Chatman to keep the guy healthy. He gave in to giving Ronnie an overdose of workload, and sure enough, popped an ACL.

 

you said yourself, Cam didn't see RB's talent until after TC, 4

 

You said yourself, Cam didn't see RB's talent until after an entire TC, 4 PS games, and one RS game. That's my whole point, IMHO, that's inexcusable. You don't agree...fine. We agree to disagree. Also, your point about the 90 percent idea is valid for the Dallas game, not the Washington game, which is when Cam showed his hand re. RB's value to that offense. I'd seen all I needed at that point. Also, how do you justify putting your top RB, who is supposedly injury prone, on KR duties? Silly...just silly.

 

You justify it because statistically a kick returner only gets injured on a kick return something ridiculous like once every 1,000 returns. You could also justify it because part of what Cam was trying to teach Ronnie was making cuts at full speed and having good instincts in the open field.

And you're completely dismissing the possibility that Ronnie Brown began to play better in this new system after he had some training camp, preseason, and a couple of full speed regular season games worth of experience in it. I personally would not dismiss that possibility so easily. Happens all the time.

 

Cameron worked Ronnie real hard during the offseason. Gave him the KR role.

It worked. He was on a different level before the injury.

Ronnie became a complete back last year.

Cam made him earn it.