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Roger Stone's JFK's book ... LBJ did the deed!

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by gafinfan, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    If Jack Ruby had never been born we'd have a lot more answers right now.

    Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk
     
  2. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Why not, a little shoot off could be a lot of fun, with the added benefit of gaining a new friend, always a positive endeavor.

    As for trusting the government you must remember that I was one of those guys ACing pilots into N Vietnam and along the trail so my view of LBJ is colored by his remarkable keyholing, and the pilot losses resulting from that micro managed stupidity.
     
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  3. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    If I may there are things you both are failing to take into consideration. First and foremost you have to consider LBJ outside the confines of "Government" Here is a guy who desired power and strove to gain it anyway possible. Its 1960 and we have a first time Catholic running for the Presidency, there was not one Southern Baptist who would openly vote for such a man and the man running against him was a died in the wool deep South guy. I remember MANY retorts with family members, I voted for JFK, concerning this very subject, as well as hearing all the fire and brimstone descending from Sunday pulpits.

    When LBJ lost and then had to play second fiddle just to get to the WH I can't imagine a worse happening for this power hungry man. It is remarkable just how alike the Kennedy and Lincoln years and players are, its uncanny.
     
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  4. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Needless to say, I disagree. Over the years, JFK has been romanticized when he was a vehement anti-communist that pushed an agenda. Again, those guys tend to be darlings of the M.I.C.
     
  5. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Oh..I agree with this.

    But I am just saying..JFK was "Good for Business".
     
  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    When I think of vehement anti-communist I think of Joe McCarthy, the John Birch Society and their ilk. Are you putting JFK at that level?
     
  7. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-harvey-oswald-marksman-sharpshooter

     
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  8. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    First chance I've had to read your link, been at youngest daughter's for granddaughter's birth, but couldn't agree more with comments made by service and FBI people.

    Also, not noted, firing at a downward angle also adds to the difficulty.

    As a long time shooter(BB gun at 5, 22 at 8, first centerfire a 32/20 at 10) and having sent tons of lead down range I've never believed that LHO could have done the deed. There are way to many negatives about the guy's mental makeup plus the total lack of practice time going against him plus, as I said before he never claimed the kill in the first place.

    Another interesting side trip might be to check out Mr. Warren's job folder before he was appointed to SCOTUS, another of LBJ's cronies.
     
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  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    My background was roughly the same. My dad had me shooting a .22 at about 6. We'd go to a place up the creek where we'd set up bottles and cans and plink. I didn't actually get a BB gun until I was about 9. My first one looked like the old M1 Carbine and you pushed in the barrel to **** it. My first rifle, started shooting at about 11, and I still have it, was 25/35 Pre War M94 Carbine. Also did some early shooting with a 25/20 M92 rifle with the long octagon barrel. Still have it too. My dad and many of his friends felt the 25/35 carbine was a good gun for a kid to start out with deer hunting.
     
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  10. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Not to highjack this thread but I too still have that Marlin 32/20 (24" barrel and crescent butt plate) that was my Grandfathers pot gun. My first kill was a head shot squirrel with that old gun. I still remember the thrill of bringing it home to add to the supper fare. Honestly it still ranks up there with my best hunting adventures all time.

    The 25/35 is still effective and still widely used in Alaska, so I'm told by native hunters who use it for everything, including the big bears.
     
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  11. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  12. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Section I strongly recommend that you read this book. I'm almost half way thru it and the things I've learned about JFK and LBJ are amazing. Dose the book PROVE that LBJ did the deed? Not in my eyes, so far but, the ability and desire are there in spades.

    As for your premise that JFK was "Good for Business" I strongly disagree:
    1. He was in the process of eliminating the Federal Reserve system. By Presidential order he had already started to print $5 bills and had some 1/2 million in circulation at the time of his killing
    2. In the process of returning to the Gold standard
    3. Clearly on the outs with the Joint Chiefs
    4. Made enemies of Hoover and his cronies
    5. Made enemies of the Mafia
    6. No friend of the Military/Industrial Machine
    7. You are sadly wrong about JFK/RFK and the ties with the CIA. It has been proven the Jack had little/no control of that rogue outfit [It was operating outside the bounds of government control since IKE had allowed it to become that way while he was in office]. He didn't trust them and they hated him.
    8 and this is just the tip of that iceberg
     
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  13. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Another amazing read

    Kroth, Jerry (2013-09-01). Coup d'etat: The assassination of President John F. Kennedy (Kindle Locations 63-65). Genotype. Kindle Edition.

    There is so much going on in this "little" book, about 100 pages, Dr. Kroth cuts right to the chase and his work is very convincing to me.
     
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  14. danmarino

    danmarino George Floyd was murdered Club Member

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    As a former Marine who can shoot a man sized target, with iron sites, at 500 yards I can attest that with a little practice I could make that shot. Oswald missed twice and hit his target the 3rd time. Also, I doubt he was using that scope. From that distance it would have been easier to track without that crappy scope.

    I believe the time for the three shots is about eight seconds total with that last 2 being just under 2 seconds. Even with a little bit of bolt trouble this would be doable, because Oswald had qualified twice at Marksman level in the Marines he knew how to clear or resolve a weapon problem. When he was in the Marines that test consisted of a rapid fire, 50 rounds at 200 yards at a man sized target. He scored 48 and 49. You would also have to assume that Oswald knew how to not only properly zero the firearm, but also make sure that it worked properly.

    The rifle he used wasn't "crap". It was/is actually a very good shooting rifle.
     
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  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    WADR, I really doubt you personally examined the rifle Oswald allegedly used. You can read it about the quality of said rifle by those who did, at this link.
    http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-harvey-oswald-marksman-sharpshooter
     
  16. danmarino

    danmarino George Floyd was murdered Club Member

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    When I wrote that I meant the type of rifle and not his specific rifle. There's a lot of misinformation that the type of rifle he used was a POS.

    However, here is what was said about his rifle in court. This testimony doesn't suggest that the rifle wouldn't shoot true.

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazr1.htm
     
  17. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Roger Stone. Ha. Ha. Ha.
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    One theory I heard was that one of the Secret Service accidentally shot him in a panic. That the cover-up was mainly to protect the Secret Service Member.
     
  19. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    I was a bit of a JFK fanatic as a kid and while I'm not sure if Oswald was the only shooter, I am sure that there was a deeper conspiracy involved for the simple reason that Jack Ruby shot Oswald to silence him. That alone indicates to me that there were other players involved, maybe the mafia, maybe some high level government guys. If Ruby was sent to kill Oswald, then I can also presume that there was a plan B or someone else involved to guarantee Kennedy wasn't leaving Texas alive. What I don't know is if Oswald was successful on his own or if someone else was involved as it relates to the kill shot(s).
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I'll go to my grave believing someone else fired the kill shot. JFK's head jerked backward on impact. Zapruder tape shows that. That indicates the shot came from the front. I've never killed a human, but I've shot enough deer and elk to know the animal upon the impact of the bullet does not fall toward the shooter, especially when a bone is hit. The skull obviously is bone. The so-called magic bullet theory is total and utter hogwash.
    Jack Ruby was a friend of Prescott Bush, father, and grandfather of POTUS's 41 and 43, and also banker for the Nazis at one point. Geo HW Bush was in the CIA and was in Dallas that day, along with another well known CIA agent, E. Howard Hunt. The latter also claimed LBJ was behind it.
    "E. Howard scribbled the initials “LBJ,” standing for Kennedy’s ambitious vice president, Lyndon Johnson. Under “LBJ,” connected by a line, he wrote the name Cord Meyer. Meyer was a CIA agent whose wife had an affair with JFK; later she was murdered, a case that’s never been solved. Next, his father connected to Meyer’s name the name Bill Harvey, another CIA agent; also connected to Meyer’s name was the name David Morales, yet another CIA man and a well-known, particularly vicious black-op specialist. And then his father connected to Morales’ name, with a line, the framed words “French Gunman Grassy Knoll.”

    So there it was, according to E. Howard Hunt. LBJ had Kennedy killed. It had long been speculated upon. But now E. Howard was saying that’s the way it was. And that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn’t the only shooter in Dallas. There was also, on the grassy knoll, a French gunman, presumably the Corsican Mafia assassin Lucien Sarti, who has figured prominently in other assassination theories."

    "Later that week, E. Howard also gave Saint two sheets of paper that contained a fuller narrative. It starts out with LBJ again, connecting him to Cord Meyer, then goes on: “Cord Meyer discusses a plot with [David Atlee] Phillips who brings in Wm. Harvey and Antonio Veciana. He meets with Oswald in Mexico City…. Then Veciana meets w/ Frank Sturgis in Miami and enlists David Morales in anticipation of killing JFK there. But LBJ changes itinerary to Dallas, citing personal reasons.”

    David Atlee Phillips, the CIA’s Cuban operations chief in Miami at the time of JFK’s death, knew E. Howard from the Guatemala’ coup days. Veciana is a member of the Cuban exile community. Sturgis, like Saint’s father, is supposed to have been one of the three tramps photographed in Dealey Plaza. Sturgis was also one of the Watergate plotters, and he is a man whom E. Howard, under oath, has repeatedly sworn to have not met until Watergate, so to Saint the mention of his name was big news.

    In the next few paragraphs, E. Howard goes on to describe the extent of his own involvement. It revolves around a meeting he claims he attended, in 1963, with Morales and Sturgis. It takes place in a Miami hotel room. Here’s what happens:

    Morales leaves the room, at which point Sturgis makes reference to a “Big Event” and asks E. Howard, “Are you with us?”

    E. Howard asks Sturgis what he’s talking about. Sturgis says, “Killing JFK.” E. Howard, “incredulous,” says to Sturgis, “You seem to have everything you need. Why do you need me?” In the handwritten narrative, Sturgis’ response is unclear, though what E. Howard says to Sturgis next isn’t: He says he won’t “get involved in anything involving Bill Harvey, who is an alcoholic psycho.”

    After that, the meeting ends. E. Howard goes back to his “normal” life and “like the rest of the country… is stunned by JFK’s death and realizes how lucky he is not to have had a direct role.”

    After reading what his father had written, St. John was stunned too. His father had not only implicated LBJ, he’d also, with a few swift marks of a pen, put the lie to almost everything he’d sworn to, under oath, about his knowledge of the assassination. Saint had a million more questions. But his father was exhausted and needed to sleep, and then Saint had to leave town without finishing their talk, though a few weeks later he did receive in the mail a tape recording from his dad. E. Howard’s voice on the cassette is weak and grasping, and he sometimes wanders down unrelated pathways. But he essentially remakes the same points he made in his handwritten narrative."

    https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/the-last-confession-of-e-howard-hunt-76611/

     
  21. danmarino

    danmarino George Floyd was murdered Club Member

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    This is one of my all time favorite interviews with someone who was there during Kennedy's assassination. Clint Hill, Jacqueline Kennedy's secret service agent and agent for 5 U.S. presidents, talks about that day. He's the guy who ran up to the car after Kennedy was shot. Skip to about minute 25 to hear what he has to say. Although, the 40 minute interview is pretty great.
     
  22. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    You didn't include the video in the comment.. please fix.
     
  23. danmarino

    danmarino George Floyd was murdered Club Member

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  24. danmarino

    danmarino George Floyd was murdered Club Member

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    Sorry about that. Fixed
     
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