The golf course incident very well justified cutting him at the time. His use of the N word in the context he used it absolutely does not. It has become pretty widely accepted culturally in that context. Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
How can you say that when you DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AT THE GOLF COURSE. You can say....from what I have read, Im of the opinion that there were grounds to let him go. But you dont know everything that happened. For one thing, Dawn Aponte is the one who handled this. Now, I dont know Aponte, but her being a female, I have a hard time believing she would have just swept something under the rug that was as horrible as what some are making it out to be. And maybe it was. But...we have no details to go by at all.
Your admitted hypocrisy negates the validity of your outrage. just because you recognize this hypocrisy, doesn't in any way, make it ok.
Don't know. Since that hasn't come up, I don't know what I'd do. And yeah, I would have a problem if black players called him a cracker but let's not pretend those two words are at all equivalent historically. I'm not asking these players to be choir boys, but I don't think it's too much to ask that they conduct themselves with at least a minimum of dignity when they are representing the organization. And that's what it's about. We cand ebate the use of the word, the context, etc., until we are blue in the face. The only question is what is this organization willing to tolerate from its' employees. What do they want the public to eprceive about how they run their business? And if the team is ok with allowing Richie Incognito to be the face of their franchise then that tells you all you need to know.
It doesn't, because I don't know how I would react. It's possible I'd feel differently if it was somebody else. Since that situation hasn't yet arisen I can't say. I thought Michael Vick should get a second chance, but I didn't want to sign him. I'm a Florida State alum. I have no idea is Jameis Winston did what he is accused of. I hope he isn't. But if he is, or there is evidence to suggest he is, then he should be thrown off the team. So, maybe that's an indication of where I'd go. But there's a difference between forgiving the guy, and actively defending the behavior, which you and many others are doing.
Defending behavior that goes on in every locker room and part of the culture of the NFL and other professional sports? Nobody is defending the behavior. But if it is a systemic problem in professional sports and Richie happened to be a part of it, we are defending him against a witch hunt.
This is unforgivable because it was Aponte who initially took point for the club in the golf outing assault. So she knew what kind of behavior Incognito is capable of. That assault at an annual team event happened in view of sponsors. Philbin knew it happened yet continued to preach about the quality of the men in his locker room. He got rid of Chad Johnson after a domestic violence incident but kept Incognito after a sexual abuse incident. Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/09/3740075/armando-salguero-miami-dolphins.html#storylink=cpy Why havent any of the sponsors said anything? We have no real details on this at all...besides a police report, which is one side of a story, and what the media has put out there. Nothing.
Since when is "everybody else was doing it", a valid excuse for bad behavior? I'm pretty sure it's one of the first things my mother taught me. Richie is the unlucky guy who got caught. But he got caught, now he has to deal with the consequences, whatever those may be.
Looking at the golf course incident and the trainer incident in the most beneficial light possible is pretty much self-delusion at this point, not principled benefit of the doubt. It's much more likely there are more terrible things we don't know about then it is he's innocent of what's going on.
But your making assumptions. All of this is being investigated by the NFL. What's the point of making any conclusions, when you have very little to make a conclusion on.
So, what do you think, the woman is completely lying and the Dolphins just gave her money in exchange for a confidentiality agreement for nothing? I doubt that there is absolutely nothing to the story. As for the sponsors, maybe they just don't want to get involved. Who knows? I wouldn't take their lack of comment as anything regarding the validity or non-validity of the woman's story.
I'm not really defending anything other than reason. Using the n-word is not automatically wrong. You personally think differently. People can enter into social agreements with one another. If its understood a word or jokes are ok between them, then its ok to use those words or jokes. It doesn't mater if you like or not. The words were used in an unofficial capacity away form team functions. Using those words, while often are an indication of racism, are not 100% guaranteed to equal racism. We have considerably more data that it was not racism. You ignore all of it, then admit if he was a better player you'd let it slide but turn around and impugn the integrity of not only the organization but anyone else not seeing this as black and white as you are making it. I know for a fact, if guys like Mike Vick or Big Rape were to join this team I would not be a fan of the team as long as they are on the team.....even if they lead us to a Super Bowl. I don't have to question it or think about it, like you do because I know my morals and ethics are consistent.
You could make a decent argument for that with the sexual assault incident, but not the trainer incident. There is literally no information at this point about the alleged trainer incident. We know less than nothing about it. And TBF, sexual assault is a very serious and heinous act. Its pretty important that its true before judgements are made and not just for the accused, but for all future accusations.
I have no idea. Do I think shes lying? Of course not. But people throw the word Sexual Assault around so easily. Again...we have no details from anyone. Because of this...you cant say Richie Incognito sexually assaulted anyone. You can say, in your opinion he did, but thats not what people are doing. And...how do you know the Dolphins paid her? Theres no details on that, what so ever. Maybe the woman signed the agreement because there were things she did prior to the incident that she doesnt want people to know. Maybe she agreed its best for all partied involved to sign the agreement. Your assuming they paid her.
Richie Incgonito's social contract with his teamates doesn't apply to the organization. If what he's doing become spublic (which it has) it affects the organization. They are then entitled to deal with him however they see fit. As for your own morals and ethics, good for you. I was just being honest. All I know of you is your attitude on here. I don't want to know any more.
Just because something effects the organization doesn't mean its automatically wrong. All I know about you is that you're perfectly comfortable being a hypocrite who refuses to look at any and all facts and instead just judge based on your already held stance. I too, don't want to know more.
Richie Incognito has brought negative attention and publicity to this organization. He may not have meant to, but he did. And now the organization has to make a decision on how to deal with him. Lastly, not that I feel the need to jusitfy myself to you, but I'm not comfortable witht he fact I might feel differently if it was a different player. Since it hasn't happened yet, I don't exactly know what my reaction would be. At least I'm honest about it. If you are really so pure as you claim then good for you.
Actually.... Jonathan Martin did. If he handled this in house, instead of taking it to the media, we wouldnt be having this negtive stuff.
The police didn't even term it sexual assault as the report filed was classified as Battery - Simple. I don't think the woman even felt this was that big of a deal as she stated she only filed the police report because Richie didn't apologize personally.
Its not, but you need to be consistent if you want to be respected as management. Also, the "unlucky" guy happens to be someone who is revered by players, which is what makes the situation problematic.
The trainer incident is pretty speculatory at this point. Obviously if the investigation yields more information, the story changes. The golf incident absolutely was grounds to cut Incognito. But at this point, cutting him solely because of that comes across as disingenuous.
Sure it's terrible of them to have not done it, but I don't think that's a reason why it shouldn't be done now.
First of all, you keep changing the discussion from what you think should happen, to what the organization may do. Secondly, I didn't ask you to justify yourself to me. Third, I find it hard to believe, as an adult, you've never come across at least one situation where your ethics didn't run perpendicular to your wants. We aren't talking about how you'd react in a life or death situation since you've never experienced it before, so it makes little sense to not have an inkling of what you'd in this scenario. Lastly, I'm not pure, I just know that my convictions on things like sexual assault, murder, racism & dog fighting are stronger than my love of football. I find it bizarre that any reasonable adult couldn't definitively say where they stand on those things.
FTR, I don't feel any differently if it was sexual assault or sexual battery. Either or, should be grounds for dismissal and jail. I still would like more than just what was said before I decide guilt or innocence. Apparently that makes a person an unabashed homer.
When I was thirty years old, I did some things I'm not proud of with my friends while I was drunk.. It's not ok he goes around and uses the word in the context he has..he needs to stop..I don't consider him a racist for using the word in a joking fashion, I do however consider Riley one when you see the malicious hateful demeanor when he said it..I'm gonna teach my kid not to behave like either, I'm gonna teach my kid not to become Riley Cooper. My gut tells me this guy does have some bullying tendencies, my gut tells me he doesn't get physical, my gut tells me he isn't a racist, my gut tells me he's a thirty year old that likes to drink and act silly, my gut tells me he will fight for you, my gut tells me he would be there by your side if he considered you a friend, my brain tells me the voicemail was not malicious in any way. My logic tells me we should allow this investigation to take it's course, wait til we hear Jon martins side, and see what it feels like..to make decisions about his career based on a joking inappropriate voicemail and a video of him drunk doesn't seem fair at this point.
The team doesn't appear to have appropriately reacted to basically anything that's occurred, Martin absolutely shouldn't have handled it internally.
Ok Theres your first mistake. In one sense...you say doesnt appear. Which means you dont know this to be the truth. But then you say he absolutely should not have handled this internally. How can you claim an bsolute...when you yourself, said it "appears" this way?
I am just wondering if RI is allowed to return to the team if schmolioot is going to make a principled stand and no longer root for the Dolphins?
Incognito is not a racist. The alleged assault was a year and a half ago, and settled to the team's satisfaction.
The report was filed as neither. It was filed as Battery - Simple. The word "sexual" has been added by others who have brought up the incident lately.
No, he fondled her with a golf club, rubbed up against her butt and then poured a bottle of water in her face.
Considering the team already got my three grand and the tickets are virtually worthless on the secondary market I'll still go, but I wouldn't be that pleased. But you worry about yourself.
