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Reshad Jones: I want to be recognized as one of the premiere safeties in this league

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Not So Fast, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

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  2. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I keep seeing this idea that we were dumb not to extend him when we spent so much money this offseason.

    I know the media is obviously ******ed but that couldn't make any less sense.
     
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  3. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    This is the Brian Hartline situation all over.

    We could have locked up Hartline a lot cheaper if we resigned him prior to the 2012 season, but we waited and it cost us a lot more $$$. This is going to be the same exact situation.

    Moves like this are what separate the teams like the Packers and Patriots and teams like us.
     
  4. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!


    Wake me when the upcoming season is half over and Jones is on pace to having a Pro bowl season and is still unsigned.
     
  5. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Even still if we resign him while he is on pace to make the Pro Bowl in the middle of the season it would cost more than now. Jones played the whole season at a high level last year, I don't know why we wouldn't lock him up now. His price is only going to go up if he production stays the same or improves (which typically happens to 4th year players).
     
  6. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University

    White people problems...
     
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  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No it's not. They aren't resigning players earlier, or somehow prescient. The Dolphins identified that Hartline was going to be good in the new offense ahead of time, and made a good attempt. His injury issues caused issues with that. Reshad Jones I'm not quite sure what you're expecting
     
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  8. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Look at when the Packers locked up Jordy Nelson; in the middle of the season for a lot less than what he could have gotten after the season. We could have done the same with Hartline last year. Look at how the Patriots resigned Hernandez and Gronk; both were locked up (no pun intended) after their 2nd seasons in the NFL. The key to having a consistently good NFL team is managing and manipulating the cap. Thus far Ireland has done a good job of that (have to give him credit where credit is due), but if I was in his shoes I would still be doing everything in my power to lock up Jones now, before he gets to the open market.
     
  9. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    And he's only got what like 8 months to get it done? And he's given us what reason to think he won't?

    He still hasn't cured cancer yet either. I say we protest. Oh wait..
     
  10. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I forgot why I don't post as often... I try to make a valid point regarding something that I am concerned about, but instead just get bashed and have my concerns compared to curing cancer. I wasn't being testy in my posts, just was simply trying to add my own insight to the situation.

    The reason, I even mentioned my point and concern is because the article suggests that we might not lock up Jones, despite previously alluding to the fact we would try to. Additionally, I mentioned it because of how this whole situation is eerily similar to the Hartline situation last year:
    1.) We wanted to lock up Hartline
    2.) His injury took place and we stopped trying to get him locked up
    3.) Hartline started the beginning of the season and predictably did very well
    4.) IIRC we approached Hartline early to midseason about locking him up to a long-term deal, but wisely his agent told him not to because he would get more money on the open market
    5.) We had to pay significantly more money to resign Hartline than if we would have locked him up prior to the season.

    Yes, I know the injury situation was different but you pay the Doctors on staff for their medical opinions and go from there. Obviously his injury hasn't had long term implications and I have little doubt the Doctors would have told the staff otherwise.

    As of now, I see the Jones situation playing out very similar to the one listed above.
     
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  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the underlining tone is that he deserves the benefit of the doubt considering the offseason he had, how the cap is managed currently, and what he has shown to do since he's had full control, without the underlining tone of criticism..Basically, does he really deserved to be criticized in this case?

    Using Grink and Hernandez as examples is not making your case don't ya think?
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    What if they sign him long term and last year turns out to be a fluke?
     
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  13. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Oh, Oh, Oh Fitzmagic Club Member

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    I think you're exaggerating the "big" difference between the contract offer in middle of the season vs end of the season. You're comparing them to Gronk and it's apples and oranges. Gronk was really good in year 1. Jones is only now good at the end of his contract. I can make similar argument for Hartline, they would have been idiots to pay Hartline a new contract based on previous performances, since they weren't that good.

    They are running a business here. A bad contract is way more impactful (negatively) than overpaying for someone who has shown they can play at a high level for more than one year (see Jones hopefully)
     
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  14. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Signing players to early contract extension sounds like a good way to save money but it involves risk. And sometimes taking that risk makes you look stupid. You think the Jets are happy they extended Sanchez? Plus in today's NFL if you were to sign a rising star to an affordable contract, its likely that once he attains star status he holds out minimizing the amount of money you save. So is it really worth it to take the risk when the reward may not be fully realized?

    Now I'm all four resigning Jones before he hits the open market but there is plenty of time to do that.

    Hernandez and Gronk aren't very good examples of signing early to save money as both were paid top dollar (Gronk is the highest paid TE).
     
  15. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    W/o knowing what Jones is seeking, it's impossible to say whether they should or should not be locking him up now and impossible to say whether they would save any money over letting him test the market after the season. Many players and agents have inflated opinions of their worth and don't come off their number until they shop around and find no buyers at their price.
     
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  16. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    This whole "story" is a non-issue in my opinion. Sessler stats that Miami has "failed to extend Jones". Just because they haven't done so yet? I mean, what if they're waiting until after they sign Dion Jordan so they know the terms of his deal for next year so they know how much money they'll have to play around with after extending Jones? Next year's going to be an important offseason with so many free agents - Jones, Clemons, Grimes, Keller, Misi, Soliai, and Starks. Obviously Miami's not going to have the amount of money they had this offseason, so it would seem to me they'd want to get parameters of the deal worked out as exactly as they kid so as not to sink themselves next year if they want to bring back the majority of those free agents they know they'll have.

    Jones will get his deal in due time, barring a catastrophic injury. Book it.
     
  17. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Your faulting us for arguing that theory ?

    I'd rather not be the team that throws big money at unproven players... That's not what the Packers, Patriots do at all any way.
    Hartline isnt even making as much money as it seems. Regardless...He was near death this time last year, so your using a terrible example.
     
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  18. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Look how quick the Patriots locked up Aaron Hernandez to a long term deal. That's how the good teams do it...
     
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  19. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    The contract could be structured to protect against one year of good play.

    Enviado desde mi GT-P3110 usando Tapatalk 2
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Of course it could be. it doesn't mean his agent and him would accept it and it doesn't really seem like they would by the way they're talking.
     
  21. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan New Member

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    Couple of fundamental flaws with your argument, UCF Finatic -

    Miami made attempts to lock up Brian Hartline. Talks stalled, mainly when he was sidelined with a serious illness that kept him in the hospital. So yeah, this is hindsight to the 10th degree.
     
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  22. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Wouldn't Jones be a RFA? So he's not going anywhere. Even if he was a UFA he will get tagged before he leaves this team. The tag on Safeties isn't that high and he would be deserving of a tag.
     
  23. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    He will have more than three accrued seasons so no... UFA.
     
  24. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Ireland has failed to sign any of the young players to deals before their rookie deal expires. So I don't expect it to change. The whole point of taking the risk is to save yourself a couple million a year or more. That savings could be the difference in getting another player signed.

    Right now if Jones has another season like last...he's going to cost Dashon Goldson money (five years, $41.25 million ($8.25 million per season, $18 million guaranteed) or worse Eric Berry money (6 yr(s) /$50,044,300 Average Salary $8,340,717 Guaranteed: $25,696,200).

    We can't even count on the tag being our friend next year because of the Goldson/Berry/Weddle deals pushing the # up for safeties.

    Right now I'd take the risk and see if we could sign him for Hartline cash cause outside of injury I have no doubt he'll perform next year. Jones is one of 2 young proven stars on this team (Pouncey the other...hopefully Tannehill joins that list this year) and is the type of guy you lock up early.
     
  25. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    can you really blame him? none of them have really been good enough to lock up early
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Its baffling to me, that so many people think he's doing contracts incorrectly when we've had numerous players outplay their rookie contracts and we've NEVER been in dire cap situations with him as GM.

    We all understand why a person would want to sign someone early. But let's also stop pretending its automatically worth the risk. I mean what's really worse: paying $8.25 million for an excellent safety or paying $6 million a year for a safety that was good for only one year?
     
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  27. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Who says it's "automatic". That's coming from you only. Your failing to comprehend the meaning of the term 'risk' in the first place. Also the example given is FAR more then $2 million a year. Your forgetting the cap hits. We also still have plenty of free agents for next season and less cap room then Ireland got to play with this year. He can't count on a depressed free agent market happening again and getting lucky with filling spots with 1 year rentals. Extra cap room is always great. Signing a guy after a year of great play or 2 years makes no real difference. Play can still fall off, injuries still happen, but when your confident in a player it just looks plain smart when you can lock them up early even with the risk of backfires.

    Also the main reason we don't have much cap trouble is because we don't pay huge money for a QB. If Tanny develops like we hope. Ever cap dollar is going to count to locking him up in a few years with the ridiculous deals QB's are getting and are going to get.

    But like I originally said though I don't expect it here because Ireland plays the cautious side when it comes to his own players. I'd be very surprised if he locked up a young guy a year early.
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    You're assuming they are confident in the player...my point is they may not be which is why they haven't paid up yet. I understand risk, the problem is you think Jones is worth signing at whatever price he's asking for.
     
  29. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Again I never said such. I'm out of this conversation since you seem to think I'm saying things I'm clearly not and just don't get it.
     
  30. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Sticking up for Ireland by bashing Ireland. You're getting creative. :shifty:
     
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  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I'm not saying you said that. I'm saying its the logical conclusion to your plan of attack whether you realize it or not.
     
  32. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Guess the Giants were illogical signing Cruz to that 5 year $43 million deal. There is a guy who would have easily gotten 11.5 a year on the open market or in a FA year.
     
  33. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If it comes down to extending Jones, or signing Leach, I'd go with Leach.

    Can always tag Jones, which would mean Starks is leaving however who knows, maybe Odrick finds his inner baller this year making him replaceable anyway.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Cruz has played well for more than one season. I don't know why you're completely ignoring that with Jones.
     
  35. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Reshad has played 3 years and improved each and every year with Miami and has room to be even better. Cruz has actively played 2 years and regressed his 2nd active year (-444 yards and dropped from an 18.7 avg to 12.7) albeit still a very good year. Reshad also plays in a safety friendly system with a DC whose had large success in making DB's better. Your really hung up on this one year thing which makes me think that honestly your just risk averse and plainly can't see we have a football player in Jones. One I am as convinced of as I am Pouncey (the only other young all star of this team). The one year thing benefits Miami and is why they can keep the cost down now. He repeats (which is much more likely then him faltering in a contract year) he will make huge cash in a year where this team could actually use the space. Not to mention the extra cap room he takes up later in his deal when Miami is trying to re-sign Tannehill to hopefully a big deal because he kicks some *** out there. It's all about trusting your talent evaluation. Does Jeff trust his?

    Best part is....he plays his best ball against our division. Check the highlights and look at how often he makes plays against our rivals. This is a kid to invest in:

    [video=youtube;UZwwrz0c6Vg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZwwrz0c6Vg[/video]
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Cruz played at a high level for more than one year. Jones has not. I'm not risk adverse, its just still up in the air about Jones. They may only want to wait to mid way through the season, but they obviously want to wait longer to make sure he wasn't a fluke. You want to take a risk just to take one.

    Again you have no idea what he's asking for right now. For all you know you he could be asking for the same amount of money now that he's gonna get in mid season or later. Maybe he and his agent are convinced he's a top 2 safety and asking for top 2 safety money right now. You don't know, but it doesn't stop you from arguing with me or declaring the FO made a mistake.
     
  37. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Your entire argument IS risk adverse. It's the bloody basis of your argument and your saying your not? Now whose being logical Spock? ;p I already said early that if he's looking for FA money now he's not going to get it. That just purely doesn't happen these days (as the Cruz contract shows) Plus Jones agent is Joel Segal who isn't an idiot when it comes to contract negotiations and surely has advised his client that if he's looking for such now he won't see it. Also, if Jones isn't signed before the first game....it won't happen mid-season. He'll do exactly what Hartline did and wait till after the season when he knows he'll cash in. This is all basic contract negotiation 101 here Fin D. But you did answer my one question which goes with your risk adverse nature. You don't see what we have in Jones.

    Also, if I wanted to take a risk purely for taking one..........where was I when Kendall Langford was a year away? Not looking to extend him. Where was I with Sean Smith heading into his contract year despite the fact the team was very devoid of CB talent? I wasn't for extending him and right up through the time he left I was advocating his removal. The only guys I advocate trying to sign a year ahead of time are the sure fire guys which right now would be Pouncey and Jones. Hartline I was for extending during the offseason before he got hurt, but then it didn't take a genius to see back then he was our only halfway decent target who could excel. I wanted him for more along Bess money. Now that contract he might not even see year 3 of it. It's a pretty damn good contract for a guy who won't ever be targeted 100+ times again.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I'll say it again, you have no idea what Jones is asking for right now. If he's looking to be paid the as one of the highest safeties in the league, its would be downright criminal for Ireland to sign him right now, based on one year of solid play. Since you don't have that info, you have no business saying its a mistake or not. You are basically just farting into existence this concept of a lower contract that Jones would be willing to sign right now. You're acting like they could sign him now for $10 million (made up number) or at the end of the season for $40 million (made up number).

    I also at no point gave you my personal opinion on Jones' play.
     
  39. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I'm not sure I understand the issue here. Jones is a good player the team would like to keep but he has no leverage at this point. He has a year left on his deal and another year under the franchise tag if it comes to that. It makes no sense for Ireland to give him a big $$$ long term deal right now.
     
  40. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    No more so then your opinion that he's looking to be paid like a #1 or #2 safety right now. The fact that he's asking for a contract extension right now is proof he's not expecting top dollar. With the contracts given out this past offseason it's pretty damn clear if he makes it to a FA year he'll command big money. I mean really that Berry contract is just nuts. If my opinion is "farting into existence"....yours just shart it's pants. History (including the example I've given of Cruz's contract compared to your ZERO examples) is on my side here. Your comments also say plenty about what you think of Jones since you keep harping on about his 'one year' and him still 'being up in the air'. To me that means your are not convinced of his level of play.
     

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