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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Finatik, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We were all discussing whether to play or not play football because of Covid and so many were against playing because even one death was too much?

    How's it working out at the half way point?
     
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  2. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone dead or been hospitalized?

    No, they're world class athletes in peak physical condition.
     
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  3. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt say it's gone particularly well.

    Games have had to be rescheduled, the first four weeks of the season were flat out bad football, outbreaks have happened, injuries are happening at an increased rate, if games arent rescheduled players miss them if they have tested positive, or the next weeks game.

    Honestly we arent even watching NFL caliber football most games.
     
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  4. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    @AGNA - would you say you would have rather them canceled the season?
     
  5. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    I would have, for sure. Its unnecessary. Better to out everything on ice and try in 2021.
     
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  6. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    I've got no problem with grown men making business decisions to play football. COVID is an additional risk to their health, but they all know the job is dangerous when they sign up. The athletes are well paid and can stay home when not working, they have world class health care, constant testing and all the advantages and tools to stay healthy or get healthy.

    Putting all the support team at risk is a little more concerning but the NFL can afford to do everything to protect them thats possible too.

    I totally disagree with college and high school games being played, all sports not just football. Those players and the team around them have nothing personally to gain. The millions all go to the coaches and the schools.
     
  7. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    You obviously didn't play sports in high school.
     
  8. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    What??? Da??? Does whether I did or did not play sports in High School have to do with anything?
     
  9. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Ask a senior in high school who won't get to play his last football game for the rest of his life.
     
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  10. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I'm not necessarily saying that, but I do think they could have come up with a better plan than "Screw it".
     
  11. flounder97

    flounder97 Active Member

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    And the ripple effect of not having better game tape that catches the eyes of the college scout that in turn leads to a scholarship offering.
     
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  12. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Add to the aspect of love for the game. For a lot of kids around this country, sports is their only way out of a bad situation. For some people it's a way of life.
     
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  13. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you're understanding some of the circumstances surrounding people who play them. For some people, athletics is their only way out of a bad situation...ya know...Kind of career altering and most likely life changing. It's really ignorant on your part to not at least see that. Not everyone can just stay at home in their bathrobe all day and make money on a computer. The whole "well find another way, I did" narrative gets really easy to say with age, but actually understanding that not everything is the same doesn't....It gets harder. So if you disagree that all sports should have been canceled for a year, then yeah...You clearly never partook in them, or were reliant on them...or had any significant amount of love for playing them. So in that aspect, you're a fan of the entertainment, but you don't understand. These are people too just like yourself. Again, careers, lifestyles, and opportunities are being altered because of this virus right now. It's not quite as simple as just stay home, lock down and make money. Some of these kids are living in very unstable homes where the situation can be day to day. Imagine the pressure an 18 year old kid feels whose family is basically relying on him as a way out. A single mother? Grandparents that live with you, a little brother who is handicapped or has medical issues. These situations exist. Sports may very well be their only escape before turning towards a more unfortunate avenue. I think the NFL has done a decent job in their first year handling all of this. Same for the MLB, and the NBA. I like our odds towards figuring out our way around all this as time goes on. I feel like this is our first year with this and it's going to improve over time. I have yet to lose a loved one to this so I can't say how my emotions would shift either way. Of course that fear and empathy exists, i'm just saying that sports are a lot more important than you think. It can sound silly, if you spin it that way, but they really are. A ball, a microphone, a drumset...That **** can take you around the world if you're good enough.
     
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  14. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    And for the vast majority of those kids who show up for the first day of practice in high school, it is for love of the game only. When you're too slow, too fat, too short, too skinny, too clumsy or any other form of "too" which prevents athletic prowess on the scale that gets one to the next level, yet every practice and every drill and every opportunity to get on the field is a cherished moment... that is love of the game - even if they don't make the team.
     
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  15. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Don't know how you were able to analyze me, my level of understanding or personal experience from what I wrote but OK.
    I'm having daily conversations with a young lady whos going thru it right now. College canceled her sport, she rows crew and plays volleyball. There went her scholarship $$$ I'm far from ignorant.
    Maybe I'm a little overly paranoid , but I already lost my uncle to this ****ing virus, kids are going to die too if we just open it all back up.
    I didn't get to play my senior year cuz of a neck injury and a massive concussion, and I wrestled and played golf for my school, just for the record.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
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  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Member

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    The NFL is juggling things and if the Raiders' disdain for the seriousness of the situation is shared by others, the season won't make it to the end. Now that we're into bye weeks, there won't be the opportunity to reschedule games. The next decision will be to allow some teams to play 15 games (or 14) and that should be enough to apply an asterisk to whatever happens afterward. Sean Doolittle had it right.
     
  17. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Also, at the end of the day....even if I feel for those kids in HS or college who would could or wont play their final season of sports, that really isnt a factor at all in determining safety or what should be done.

    Sometimes life spits in its hand and slaps you straight across the face. That's just the way it is.
     
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  18. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Truth. No ones high school sports experience is worth some ones else's life. That's the issue with COVID. Just because you're one of the majority of people who don't/won't have serious issues with the disease doesn't mean you won't help spread it to someone who will. It's too communicable, and too deadly for too many.

    That said, so far the NFL has done better than I expected. We are about to enter the second wave though. We don't really know what that will look like. Hopefully, lessons have been learned. There are going to be events chained together. For example, the hospital system I work for in Portland has informed us that Idaho is running out of COVID beds, (they obviously have to be safely segregated) and Portland is going to be the overflow area if needed.


    I'm not a medical professional, (IT) but the expectation i have been told is that the second wave will be larger in numbers and broader in scope than the first. Proper safety measures will mitigate this, but you have to have buy in for that to work. The NFL hasn't pushed it enough publicly IMO. Penalties for non compliance should be harsher and more public. I love football. I love the Dolphins. I really hope the NFL as a whole takes it seriously and protects the vulnerable populations working for them. Lot of old dudes not on the field, or on the field in stripes. I don't want my love of something to contribute to deaths. The whole CTE thing is already a conflict for me.
     
  19. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We just have to find a way to live with the virus. It can't be controlled. It can't be contained. We can't spend our lives not living because were scared of it. The people who are going to get it and die are going to get it and die. That's harsh but life is harsh sometimes. Or we can all just live in our basements cowering in fear waiting for the virus to magically go away. I never will live life that way. For those that want to play, let them. For those that are afeared, don't play, stay home and you do you. But someone else's fears should not impact everyone else lives who want to continue living.
     
  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree...masks, distancing and great hygiene go a very long way in beating this. But at least in my area, I see people in every single store where masks are required- they're not distancing, not wearing masks and they seem to be unfazed by mandates. We can't just say "you do you" with something viral and share the same real estate for shopping, working, etc. I personally do not trust my family's life to people who don't think basic rules need to be followed.

    By the way, it's flu season....but where is the flu? Plain and simple, the COVID protocols have largely stopped it in it's tracks worldwide. COVID is more infectious though and it takes a higher level of participation than we're seeing. What really bugs me about this is that if this was ebola or something much more deadly, we'd be absolutely screwed as a country. So while I agree that you have to "live your life", you have to do it in a way that lets other people live theirs as well.

    I'm not pointing fingers here at anyone in particular...I'm just so over these conversations where people say it's their right to never wash their hands, stand right on top of you in a checkout line without a mask, etc. It's their right to get sick and die, but it's not their right to put others in danger by their arrogance and/or stupidity.
     
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  21. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    The human race has been dealing with this since Ugg found out that a tree limb of a certain size would shut Bog's mouth forever, and if Bog didn't behave............. The never ending struggle between absolute freedom and absolute safety has never ended, and never will as long as one human does not want another to dictate how life shall be lived. But, it has been tried, and tried, and tried, and tried, and usually failed.
     
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  22. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    The other way to put it, for pessimists, is that every birth is an absolute death sentence.
     
  23. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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  24. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    It will have to come to a point where people that want to live their lives can live their lives and the people who are scared can take precautions and never leave their home again.
     
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  25. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Masks don't work. Study after study show that they might help slow it a little but when the bug is .1 micron you're mask isn't going to stop it unless its an N95. And that's only 95% effective. Hence the name. No one said stop wearing the mask, or distance or wash your hands. I wear it when its dictated to wear it. But that is not going to STOP this. So I live my life. If someone stands too close, I say back off. If I'm in a situation I'm not comfortable in I leave the situation. But you don't shut down life is the point and you don't mandate other to do it. MAybe a better way to say this is - You do your risk tolerance.
     
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  26. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    If we had properly shut down life and everyone had taken their precautions initially, if we had testing in place in a timely manner and didnt react like a third world country we probably wouldnt be in this position now deciding when enough is enough.
     
  27. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as absolute freedom anywhere in the world and I'd be tempted to say the universe.
     
  28. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's not true at all. It has been controlled and contained in other countries. Facts matter. Just wearing cloth masks is proven to help the aerosol spread to others. We can already treat it better when infected than we could 6 months ago. We understand how it is transmitted better now than we did 6 months ago. We can test better and faster. Less people as a % of infected are requiring hospitalization and fewer of those that do die, even with more vulnerable populations. The slower we spread the virus the less people will die before it is beaten. Any deaths are unnecessary deaths. We know how to slow the spread. But, it only works if everyone buys in. Including those that likely won't be personally be strongly physically effected. Especially, those as they are the super spreaders.
     
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  29. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    While I don't wish to sound cold hearted to Puka for his personal loss (my sincerest condolences for your family's loss), when the coronavirus first hit the US, we knew very little about it. Between being kept in the scientific dark by the Chinese on the details of the actual virus itself, the falsehoods first being spread about transmission and the flip flopping wishy washy guidance from the WHO, we as a nation were initially in the dark about COVID and weren't prepared at all for this. In fact, when the H1N1 Swine Flu hit the us in 2009/2010, that virus spread like a wildfire through the US, infecting some 60 million Americans. We were lucky...SOOOOOO lucky that pandemic wasn't as lethal and COVID had been. But as time has passed and our BRILLIANT medical scientists have been able to learn more about it, we've developed therapeutics to help people recover and prudent precautionary measures to help prevent infection.

    Additionally, the segment of our population that are the MOST vulnerable to the virus are the elderly, those with respiratory issues, those with cardiac issues, those who are obese, those with diabetes. These are individuals whose bodies are already weakened due to their condition(s) and they are the ones who are more likely to die from contracting the virus, particularly if they delay seeking treatment. If my mother were to contract this, with COPD, she's more than likely history!

    The number of cases or new cases in the US is of no concern. Just because you contract it, doesn't mean you're going to die from it. My step-son and his fiancé contracted it (she works for a company that does business in Wuhan China). With zero therapeutics other than over the counter cold medicine, they recovered. They were sick a freaking dogs and wished they would die, but they recovered. Neither one of them is a model of perfect health. Both are a bit on....well...the heavy side and are as athletic as Cartman on his Big Wheel. Younger people, with none of the conditions listed above are going to recover, 99.9% of the time. That's not hyperbole, that's a evidentiary and statistical fact. The number of cases is irrelevant. Its how many that are actually dying from it that is of concern and that number is on the decline with the knowledge we've gained on this virus.

    There's no logical nor scientific reason whatsoever to shut down schools; primary, secondary or collegiate nor cancel athletic events. Especially with athletic events, these are individuals who are in incredible physical conditioning that their odds of contracting COVID and dying from it are so remote, they have a greater chance of dying of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, traffic accident, getting struck by lightening or choking on a hotdog. (I actually posted this in another thread some time back).

    The initial reason for closing everything down in the beginning made sense. We didn't know what we didn't know. That was then, this is now. We have a much better grasp on what we're dealing with and the necessity for shutting everything down in the first place was not to overwhelm hospitals. It was never intended to be a strategy to to hide until the virus went away like Passover. People have to live their lives and to quote the President (regardless of your politics) the cure can't be worse than the problem.

    Knowing what we know now, we can indeed open sporting events. Granted, prudent cautionary measures need to be taken and adhered to but we need to get on with our lives nonetheless.
     
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  30. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Masks most definitely DO work, that's why doctors always wear masks when performing surgery. In fact, modern medicine took a giant leap forward when doctors were required to wear masks when performing procedures.
    It's not so much about protecting you as it is about protecting those around you. If you and I are riding a bus or a plane together and I unknowingly have the virus you most certainly want me to be wearing a mask and if there's a chance of you being infected then I want you to wear a mask. There's still way too many people who consider themselves healthy and strong and virile and, are willing to take their chances but yet, too stupid or inconsiderate to accept that they could indeed be infected but not know it and yet endangering the lives of that nice elderly couple sitting a couple of rows in front.
    It's true that the virus is so tiny that even the tightest weave is unlikely to stop a single virus traveling by itself but, that's not how they travel. If you cough or sneeze, the virus is carried along in the minute water droplets of vapor, the stuff you see when you exhale on a cold day and that most certainly will largely be caught by a well fitting mask.
     
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  31. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Surgical masks are WAY different than what people are wearing. Most people are wearing cloth masks which slightly helps you not infect but it doesn't help you not to get it. And most mask wears are not fitted properly. So in REALITY masks AREN'T effective. Most people think that wearing the cloth keeps you safe. Nope.
     
  32. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    If everyone is wearing a mask that helps them not spread it, that is the effect of the mask. It doesnt have to work flawlessly both directions in order to be useful.

    It's like saying a gun wont protect you from being stabbed because it cant be consistently used to block a knife. That isn't how a gun or mask works.
     
  33. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You are ignoring that this is a very communicable virus. There is a weird disconnect that because the direct personal danger to the players is low, that there isn't a mortal threat. Just because the NFL athletes aren't in danger, doesn't mean that there isn't danger to those around them, and to those around those around them, and so on. It is an ever expanding circle. Think 6 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. We cannot protect vulnerable populations if we aren't protecting them, it is too easy to catch. We have to slow that spread in order to get better treatment and a vaccine before the person that will die gets sick. We have to have healthy, not at risk, populations buy in and not spread the virus to protect the at risk populations. The NFL mask mandate, etc... isn't for the athletes, it's for everyone in the contact chain leading from an athlete. Same with the social distancing and masks for the fans. It's why they rescheduled those games.

    I am not addressing distance learning, schools, etc... because (don't care why) it's a now political topic and there for cannot be addressed here. (Not judging that rule either)

    It's working. We are better at treating it now than we were months ago. I just read a study that showed hospitalization mortality has fallen from 25.6% to 7.6%. Less than 10% of those hospitalized now die compared to over a quarter. That's real progress. We will have safe fan participation at games again. There is no reason for the NFL to jeopardize peoples safety before then, and we are not just talking about the safety of those that agree to go to games. It seems like that last bit needs to be repeated over and over.
     
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  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Just for S&Gs, I did some simple math earlier today regarding this virus. Texas has a population of 28.1 million people. There was been 909,968 confirmed cases of covid in the state. That comes out to a 3.2% chance of contracting the virus. They have sadly had 18000 deaths. If you contract the virus you have a 1.9% chance of dying from it. Furthermore, with the state population being 28.1 million your chances of dying from covid in Texas is .06%, that’s less than 1/10th of 1%
    I did the same thing for Florida and the numbers were very similar. Granted I know that the overall numbers will differ on region but bottom line, we can’t shut down our entire lives when you have a greater chance of dying from other issues that are rare yet, have a greater chance of dying from.

    As I stated, as long as we adhere to prudent cautionary steps, there’s no reasons not to get life back to normal. Bottom line, get busy living, or get busy dying and I have no intention of dying anytime soon
     
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  35. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Define "slightly" though- if my mask is 15% effective and yours is 20% effective, then our chances of sharing it with each other just decreased by 1/3rd. No big deal, right? We still both have a 66% chance to get each other sick....but wiping out even one case prevents two more, which prevents four more, which prevents 8 more, etc. This is not a linear math problem and combining masks with hand washing, distancing, etc raises those protective numbers even higher.

    And what if common masks are 35% effective? Then the numbers change drastically. While it's nowhere near 100%, any protection is better than none since the goal is slowing the spread. The other side of that is that "viral loads" matter....they determine how sick you get. If we use the same math, would you prefer to be 15-20% more sick or 15% less sick? It's not rocket science here...

    But here's the real dagger- masks worked in February for China when we knew nothing about the virus, and they worked in March in Europe. Heck, look at Sweden...they never shut down and they've been better off than most. But they all wore the masks, washed their hands and acted responsibly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
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  36. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Like Europe? They did everything you said and it’s running rampant. You can do nothing against the China virus. It’s fallacy to think you can control the devil.
     
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  37. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And we still can’t control it. Slow it. Not control it.
     
  38. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Take a look at Germany, Spain and Italy today. You’re fooling yourself.
     
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  39. Fireland

    Fireland New Member

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    Unfortunately masks have been politicized so its not going to matter how much they work. A good portion of the country will never wear them and they will never been convinced because muh freedoms.
     
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  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Actually, there are several studies that show that there is no reason for doctors to wear masks.

    But we can agree that covering your mouth so you don't drool in an open wound or having bodily fluids splash into your mouth is very different than trying to keep a virus from being passed around.
     

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