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Religion = Bad?

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by danmarino, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There's a lot of logic, critical thinking, etc. exercised and promoted in the book, if anything it's a much more nuanced and mapped version of his professed views that made his public debates so popular. Like @Carmen Cygni said earlier, however- when you apply those things through a religious lens, of course they're going to come across as attacks.
     
  2. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No one is arguing that those who do most of the world's charity work are probably affiliated with a religion in some respect, but the argument should be about capacity. Everyone has the capacity to do these deeds, without a god or not, and I'd argue doing it out of compassion for your fellow human beings would be a better reason to do it. You don't need a God to possess that compassion. The argument then, is how much BAD is done throughout the world, and how much of that would change without the pretense of religion?

    Would there be as much homophobia, for instance? How many people were killed throughout history in holy wars? How many people are still being killed today on the basis of religion? Marginalized? Religion is constantly trying to play catch up with the general social and moral sentiment of the world, and often impedes its progress because BELIEFS (!) as Carmen had noted earlier.

    The point is, we need to find an inspiration beyond a God to help our fellow man. Hopefully, when we do, the inspiration and religious bases that so many use to inflict pain on our fellow man will swiftly follow.

    Also your point about Christianity and science must be looked at through a historical lens. Of course, religion was involved with science, as it was involved with every facet of human life after its introduction, for a long time. It was an immensely popular guide to the meaning of life, before science had made all of its truly significant advances.
     
  3. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    As well as a many number of people, with no religious affiliations, are doing too. Many, in fact whom I know personally, who have dedicated their professional lives for the betterment of humanity (and convinced to do so not thru a tax-free business venture) by becoming clinicians, physicians, physicist, psychologist, psychiatrist, educationalists, and so forth. It's not beyond common understanding as if there is some higher power responsible for your good deedship, it's simply an understanding of being kind and caring to promote a better humanity.

    Been there, done that as I was the son of a former preacher man. I was practically born and raised in Christianity for about 30 years of my life. It was the true actions and behaviors of many people in multiple churches over my life that lead me, and my father, to walk away from churches, religion, and ultimately the thought of a supernatural agent; the hypocrisy is astounding.

    That's nothing more than verbal vomit surrounded by typical religious circular talk. I really really implore you to provide the case of Christianity's interest for scientific and educational advancement, along with critical thinking outside of it's fragile bubble that was/is not done so thru monetary or fame gain. It's virtually impossible. Christians would not be able to believe what they believe if such factors were driven into play; faith ensures that. And please, for authenticity sake, avoid using the fraudulent awards given by the Templeton foundation.


    As long as such ignorance persists, I will not have gone far enough . . .

     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
  4. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In that context I'm not seeing much difference between religions and human societies in general, including modern ones. Perhaps, especially modern ones. Who has the highest body count over the last decade, Christianity or the U.S. government? We do so love our tribes.
     
  5. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    You can't be serious? Are you being sarcastic?

    First, your assumption of my affinity for America is greatly misplaced. Next, your assumption that those in the highest places of government are not connected with religion is also done with profound error. There's rarely an elected official that does not profess their religious faith to the public in some form or fashion from the president, to supreme court justices, to congressmen and women, other government representatives and officials, etc.. Your statement originally concocted for contradiction is a fallacy as both Christianity and the US government are heavily intertwined.

    The list goes on for days and days, but here's a few prominent figures to entertain for the time being. Ignoring your predetermined timeline, as I'll assume you're just to young to understand just how quickly a single decade passes, we'll hop back a few to the 60's (It was not that long ago, kids. You'll soon find out). Lyndon B Johnson, who was a member of the Christian church, was largely responsible for the Vietnam war which in retrospect was a grave mistake considering it's failure and the lives lost. Coming up to speed, both Bush Sr & Jr proclaimed Christianity and held it's most fundamental of beliefs in high regard. In the early 90's Bush Sr led the US to the Gulf war and in the 00's Bush Jr drove America into one of the largest of follies of all time with the Iraq war.

    Stepping into other areas, such as lifetime appointments within the government, take wacko supreme court justice Antonin Scalia for instance, and his speech delivered to the University of Chicago Divinity School:

    " . . . government, however you want to limit that concept, derives it's moral authority from god . . . Indeed, it seems to me that the more Christian a country is the less likely it is to regard the death penalty as immoral."


    Hmm, yes, nothing says god's love like a human's judgement to death. How about his asinine assumption that some god is on his side, but for reasons unknown and nefarious, or not on others?:

    "God has been very good to us. That we won the revolution was extraordinary. The Battle of Midway was extraordinary. I think one of the reasons God has been good to us is that we have done him honor. Unlike the other countries of the world that do not even invoke his name we do him honor. In presidential addresses, in Thanksgiving proclamations and in many other ways."
    Yikes, now that's extreme delusion.

    A general survey of the military also shows the amount of religious people voluntarily engaged or willing to engage in violence and war. Only about 8,000 out of 1.4 million active duty members in the Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force identify themselves as atheists, and another 1,800 say they are agnostic, according to the Defense Department. At minimum, and being conservative, that's a very strong 1 million who claim in some way that they are religious, yet view death and destruction as an answer over showing their god's love and compassion.

    Again, that's hardly even the surface of religious nutjobs in the government who are directly responsible for deaths. Then take note of the some of the least religious countries in the world, like Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, and other countries of Europe and contemplate their involvement in wars. It's next to nil.

    Now I'll leave you with this disturbing video, along with it's message and participants. Sadly, the US is just as guilty as other countries for brainwashing children into religion, war, and violence.





     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  6. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's too many straw men to unpack. It doesn't seem like the context of this discussion is being kept post to post, or we are speaking slightly different languages with similar words that don't mean the same thing.

    To me the US government is not a religious society, Members are, but there are explicit prohibitions like the first amendment. The majority of it's members identify as Christian, but few say that it's actions are those of Christianity. The USCMA was not called a Christian trade agreement. You don't seem to agree with this logic.

    So, please give me an example of one of these modern societies that religion has no place in. If members having a religious affiliation disqualifies a society, then the only one I can think of was the Khmer Rouge. They forbade all religious practice.
     
  7. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps Jeff Sharlet's investigative work is right about The Family.

    “I wish I could say more about it,” President Ronald Reagan said in 1985, according to the Times, “but it’s working precisely because it is private.”
     

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