Record number of "nearly poor" emerges in US

Carpool, community college for 2 years, rent and move to another area?

I grew up around NYC, and it parts are prohibitively expensive for young people. I moved away, lived in the South, and I lived in the West. I worked on fishing boats in Alaska to save for college, couch surfed at times, slept in my Civic or in tents at other times. It was emotionally difficult living away from friends and family, still is.

12 years later and college finished, I have a very good and secure job and can afford a different high-priced area. The struggle turned out to be defining. I would encourage parents to not shoulder the burden of tuition, let junior find a way (for example, enlist). Oftentimes, in our post-industrial world, that requires high mobility.

That's a tough reality if you have family that needs care at home, I was fortunate that mine didn't.

North Dakota is hiring. Grab a jacket at the Goodwill and get on that Greyhound.

Carpool, public transit, bke commute, or buy a scooer etc

Community College and or CEP (credit by examination tests, the only true "free" lunch colleges offer).

Car living or what have you is not really a good option for the young girls moving forwards, but for young dudes, why not?

I think what the article highlights is the need to attack costs from every direction, to repproach costs with a new eye for substitutes because most likely, things are not going to get better anytime soon.

Also, as the writer of "Rich dad, poor dad" points out, the 230k house is more of a burden then a blessing as it will eat money and not produce any, but if they are going to move in then the focus should be on minimizing costs in terms of energy usage and producing value from the home...that would be were gardening would come into play.

"If" a garden can save 1k per yr, or more, then that is the closest they are likely to come to an increase in liquidity, that 10k off of the top of their paychecks is a great place to start looking to take back some money and put it into their wallets.

As an aside, I get a bit disgusted over stuff like "no more red lobster", 50% off coupons can be found, they could go to lunches instead of the more expensive dinner menus etc, when you are talking about 40 bucks vs just outright denial of such a simple pleasure, it makes no sense as this approach is as much mental as it is actual denial if they just outright deny themselves EVER going there, this won't last.

This is sort of what I mean about Americans needing to get smarter.

Even so, the cost of living continues to go up while wages continue to be stagnant and depressed. You can't ignore the fact that jobs, the ones still around, just don't pay enough. I've worked two jobs, one full-time and one part time, and combined with my bills(I live very cheaply, don't buy myself alot of unnecessary items at all, I eat out and cook about evenly) still barely got me by. Price inflation is out of whack compared to wages and purchasing power. A big part of that is the high cost of oil/gas and transportation of goods and services that's effected by it.

Also keep in mind too there is no such thing as job security, with now even white collar jobs are not safe from layoffs, downsizing, and outsourcing, even your "non liberal arts" college degree doesn't guarantee job security either. We're experiencing a trend in downward social mobility, where even a noble way of doing things like sacrificing to go to school, getting your degree, then landing a good job, making $30-$60k a year starting out is now becoming got laid off, found a similar job, but took a pay cut, then got laid off from that job, sent resumes to similar jobs but no one's hiring, changed fields, no luck, but found a job in retail/food services, making less than $30k a year, struggling to get by, working part-time, moving in with my parents....to....what's next?

There was an article written a while back by a Yale professor and while I forget the publication that article was in (WSJ maybe) the article surmized that the housing market as it is now is how it should have been all along. That 230K house that you mention Padre is really only worth what someone is willing to pay for it so I have to agree with your premise. The housing market in my opinion will continue to worsen especially in markets that are becoming more and more elitist such as NYC, Long Island, Parts of California, Northern and Central Jersey where it is becoming harder and harder to live for average salaried workers.

Personally, I am of the belief that things will continue to get worse within the housing market before they get better because of the economic uncertainty leading to people's unwillingness to tie up large amounts of money in difficult to move markets like the housing market where it can take a lot of time to recoup your investment both initial and additional costs along the way in improvements. The inability for many families to properly maintain a house and thereby its value, due to various factors such as longer hours for those who do have jobs or inability to afford supplies for the house for those that do not have jobs could further impact just how bad the housing market will get. Just my opinion.

"FinSane wrote:

Even so, the cost of living continues to go up while wages continue to be stagnant and depressed. You can't ignore the fact that jobs, the ones still around, just don't pay enough. I've worked two jobs, one full-time and one part time, and combined with my bills(I live very cheaply, don't buy myself alot of unnecessary items at all, I eat out and cook about evenly) still barely got me by. Price inflation is out of whack compared to wages and purchasing power. A big part of that is the high cost of oil/gas and transportation of goods and services that's effected by it.

Agreed. Even the prices of things like Corn, cane sugar and coffee are out of whack.

I've been laid off from a good paying(for a kid in his early 20s) job doing route sales for a grocery distributor. We lost some major accounts due to a trend in automation in the industry(automatic replenishment of product in the stores), which effects a whole lot of people who are middle men in the distribution business: brokers, sales reps, merchandisers, warehouse laborers and managers, drivers, ect. Just a slight change in how a company does business can shed hundreds if not thousands of jobs. Automation also plays a big role in eliminating jobs, even whole companies, and its not as simple as learn new skills especially with the high cost of school and training, even community college tuition is ever increasing especially with state budgets being slashed.

I'm now doing part time work for a grocery company just so I have a job with money coming in. I'm actively searching for more work and so some side jobs to get extra money. I've slashed my spending and re-adjusted some of my bills(for example I dropped towing and roadside asst. with my insurance company for $70/month and switched to AAA for $70/year. Smart.) I do think responsible people, do cut spending and tighten belts and adjust their life according to their income, not everyone lives beyond their means. But its getting to a point where even smart, responsible people are getting hurt and its got a lot to do with wage supression and the cost of living. Do something about that and alot of these problems will solve themselves.

"Boik14 wrote:

Agreed. Even the prices of things like Corn, cane sugar and coffee are out of whack.

Well b14 and finsane, here is yet another good place to cut costs and increase liquidity.

It's well known that the generally the more quanitity you buy of a product, the lower the per unit cost becomes, so for those items, why not buy the 50 pd bags?

I had a Sam's membership at the place I used to work and noticed a 50 pd bag of sugar was..18 bucks, those little bags of sugar at the grocery store are 2 bucks each (plus tax( for 1 pd bags, so for the price of 9 pds of 1 pd bags of sugar, you can buy twice as much if you bought the bakers' sized bag, that does mean you'll have to make a one time purchase of those 5 gallon food buckets to store it in, but you've cut the cost by 50% when all is said and done by lowering your per unit cost from 2.19 down to....36 cents and because you bought such a surplus of sugar, if the 1 pd bags rise in price to 2.50, you've "saved/made" even more $$$.

The problem is Americans, most of us, have been so trained to just buy the smaller quantity because the massive quantity has diminished value due to the perception of "oh, I'll never use that much of it", when reality..yes you will, eventually, and that is true of every commodity from sugar to olive oil to coffee.

A great place to take that approach at is Resturant Supply outlets, personal care products, the really crazy thing is, if you do the math, the percentage return on buying the 50pd bag of sugar easily beats the return one could get in the stock market or savings account.

The last time the economy was this outtawack, the late 70's, John Pugsley wrote about it in his book the Alpha Strategy, which is available as a free .pdf download.

"Boik14 wrote:

There was an article written a while back by a Yale professor and while I forget the publication that article was in (WSJ maybe) the article surmized that the housing market as it is now is how it should have been all along. That 230K house that you mention Padre is really only worth what someone is willing to pay for it so I have to agree with your premise. The housing market in my opinion will continue to worsen especially in markets that are becoming more and more elitist such as NYC, Long Island, Parts of California, Northern and Central Jersey where it is becoming harder and harder to live for average salaried workers.

The only time it really makes sense is when the home is way below market value price and your rent/taxes/upkeep costs are roughly equal to what you'd pay in rent, but there is such a drive to be a homeowner in the American psyche that few people lower income people are objective about it.

Personally, I am of the belief that things will continue to get worse within the housing market before they get better because of the economic uncertainty leading to people's unwillingness to tie up large amounts of money in difficult to move markets like the housing market where it can take a lot of time to recoup your investment both initial and additional costs along the way in improvements. The inability for many families to properly maintain a house and thereby its value, due to various factors such as longer hours for those who do have jobs or inability to afford supplies for the house for those that do not have jobs could further impact just how bad the housing market will get. Just my opinion.

Well, depends, for example what if the home has a room with it's own exit that is not needed by the homeowner, but could be rented out?

*GASP*! the first reaction is normally "I don't want some stranger living in my house!"

Reality is, (and I do not have my PVifa chart handy to be really accurate) let's look at that:

30yrs at 230k at 5%=yearly mortgage payment would be..say 9,500 per yr

792 per month mortgage

Sublet a room for 500 dollars a month

500x12=6,000 per yr

mortgage payment 9,500-6,000=3,500/12=292 per month

You've cut your payment by 64%.

With the internet, it is massively easy to do a background check on potential tenants, eviction laws are also straight forward enough to allow the avg person to bounce a dead beat.

I fairly certain that, for young people from the working class, tons of education and a nomadic life are becoming increasingly necessary. Staying still is moving backwards for working class people over the past decade (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/nov/18/joe-biden/biden-says-middle-income-earners-lost-ground-reces/).

Young people need a different mindset, to go work in Qatar or Singapore, if that's what it takes. We have to accept that we are not special or precious, and plan accordingly. I'm not sure it can be accomplished effectively by Sam's Club trips, coupons and gardening. Those do help. I do the former two, but as a renter, I'm unable to do the latter (and there's a long waiting list for community gardens). I grew up gardening, fishing and hunting for much of my family's food, and I like to return to those roots.

I think historians will look back on this economic era, and conclude that the older generations (from the baby boomers to the hippies) have failed us miserably.

"pocoloco wrote:

I fairly certain that, for young people from the working class, tons of education and a nomadic life are becoming increasingly necessary. Staying still is moving backwards for working class people over the past decade (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/nov/18/joe-biden/biden-says-middle-income-earners-lost-ground-reces/).

Eh, and yet the top of the food chain is flourishing, which would seem to me to say it still can be done.

Young people need a different mindset, to go work in Qatar or Singapore, if that's what it takes. We have to accept that we are not special or precious, and plan accordingly. I'm not sure it can be accomplished effectively by Sam's Club trips, coupons and gardening. Those do help. I do the former two, but as a renter, I'm unable to do the latter (and there's a long waiting list for community gardens). I grew up gardening, fishing and hunting for much of my family's food, and I like to return to those roots.

Different situations poco, one is a young single person, or couple, the other is a family buying a home, one has a elastic earning curve, the youngsters, one has a inelastic income curve, for a young single renter, it makes little sense to garden (but it does to use coupons) for the family situation it makes all sorts of sense to garden as the savings are x4 vs x1, the family situation leverages the production from the garden, a single person has little need for 10 pds worth of veggies at a time.

FWIW though there are tons of articles on how to get maximium production out of limited growing space, but that is merely one idea, not the whole approach.

As for buying in bulk, once again it does make more sense for a family then it does for the single person but the single person has more options in terms of transportation and such day to day living expenses.

I think historians will look back on this economic era, and conclude that the older generations (from the baby boomers to the hippies) have failed us miserably.

Baby boomers became hippies poco, for me history will look back at this period of time and call it the Great Recession when the US economy was forced to adjust to the realities of Globalism and the concentration of wealth, the sort of easy, unplanned lifestyles that existed prior to now will be looked at with "wow, really?"

But either way, I do think Americans outside of that top 1% have the greatest opportunities to maximize what income they are making...if we smarten up.

I agree people can do more to make their financial house in better shape. But these individual moves won't make much difference if the economy remains in the crapper and policy continues to be skewed in favor the already well-off.

"FinSane wrote:

I agree people can do more to make their financial house in better shape. But these individual moves won't make much difference if the economy remains in the crapper and policy continues to be skewed in favor the already well-off.

Not so, first rule of winning a game is knowing you are playing it.

"pocoloco wrote:

I fairly certain that, for young people from the working class, tons of education and a nomadic life are becoming increasingly necessary. Staying still is moving backwards for working class people over the past decade (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/nov/18/joe-biden/biden-says-middle-income-earners-lost-ground-reces/).

Young people need a different mindset, to go work in Qatar or Singapore, if that's what it takes. We have to accept that we are not special or precious, and plan accordingly. I'm not sure it can be accomplished effectively by Sam's Club trips, coupons and gardening. Those do help. I do the former two, but as a renter, I'm unable to do the latter (and there's a long waiting list for community gardens). I grew up gardening, fishing and hunting for much of my family's food, and I like to return to those roots.

I think historians will look back on this economic era, and conclude that the older generations (from the baby boomers to the hippies) have failed us miserably.

Completely agreed but unfortunately Male Americans are trending away from education. It may be due to the fact that many people do not want to get too far in to debt with the job market so uncertain. You and I realize education is an investment in ones self and not necessarily tangible other then the fact it helps you land better jobs which generally pay more.

"Boik14 wrote:

Completely agreed but unfortunately Male Americans are trending away from education. It may be due to the fact that many people do not want to get too far in to debt with the job market so uncertain. You and I realize education is an investment in ones self and not necessarily tangible other then the fact it helps you land better jobs which generally pay more.

You are not offbase, my college classes, 2 to 1 females to males some classes it is 3 to 1.

I do think young males sometimes take the path of least resistance which means not putting in the work it takes to make a college education payoff, for example my approach is to plan on finding a job based on my degree, but to also start a mini business to generate income and maybe a lot of it.

Have to say though, the females amaze me at times because they work like mad to make it happen, as in "wake up at 4 am, work shift, go to class, do coursework for my 5 classes" sort of effort.

"pocoloco wrote:

Carpool, community college for 2 years, rent and move to another area?

I grew up around NYC, and it parts are prohibitively expensive for young people. I moved away, lived in the South, and I lived in the West. I worked on fishing boats in Alaska to save for college, couch surfed at times, slept in my Civic or in tents at other times. It was emotionally difficult living away from friends and family, still is.

12 years later and college finished, I have a very good and secure job and can afford a different high-priced area. The struggle turned out to be defining. I would encourage parents to not shoulder the burden of tuition, let junior find a way (for example, enlist). Oftentimes, in our post-industrial world, that requires high mobility.

That's a tough reality if you have family that needs care at home, I was fortunate that mine didn't.

North Dakota is hiring. Grab a jacket at the Goodwill and get on that Greyhound.

But, but... how else will I finish my Astrology Appreciation degree in time?

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

"padre31 wrote:

You are not offbase, my college classes, 2 to 1 females to males some classes it is 3 to 1.

I do think young males sometimes take the path of least resistance which means not putting in the work it takes to make a college education payoff, for example my approach is to plan on finding a job based on my degree, but to also start a mini business to generate income and maybe a lot of it.

Have to say though, the females amaze me at times because they work like mad to make it happen, as in "wake up at 4 am, work shift, go to class, do coursework for my 5 classes" sort of effort.

Wish my college classes had that ratio. I was lucky if any of my classes were split 50/50. Most classes were like 2-2.5 to 1 in favor of guys though.

"Stitches wrote:

Wish my college classes had that ratio. I was lucky if any of my classes were split 50/50. Most classes were like 2-2.5 to 1 in favor of guys though.

Really?

What I think is funny is these films with the "wild college lifestyles of sex and booze"

Riiight..these ladies would trade sleep for sex in a heartbeat...:lol:

Dudes, for their part, mostly are interested in..video games, as in that is about all they chat about.

"lmeister3 wrote:

But, but... how else will I finish my Astrology Appreciation degree in time?

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

Hmm, what is the market value of that sucker?

I love education, or rather the impartation of knowledge, however one had better think long and hard about, you know, finding a job, with that degree.

"padre31 wrote:

Hmm, what is the market value of that sucker?

I love education, or rather the impartation of knowledge, however one had better think long and hard about, you know, finding a job, with that degree.

As long as I'm happy with what I'm doing... that's all that matters.

Sent from my $1800 MacBook Pro

"padre31 wrote:

Really?

What I think is funny is these films with the "wild college lifestyles of sex and booze"

Riiight..these ladies would trade sleep for sex in a heartbeat...:lol:

Dudes, for their part, mostly are interested in..video games, as in that is about all they chat about.

Yea, I'm sure the guy/girl ratio had a lot to do with being in classes mostly filled with engineering majors.

"padre31 wrote:

Really?

What I think is funny is these films with the "wild college lifestyles of sex and booze"

Riiight..these ladies would trade sleep for sex in a heartbeat...:lol:

Dudes, for their part, mostly are interested in..video games, as in that is about all they chat about.

FIU. Nuff said. Every. Single. College. Sterotype. Regarding. Women. Evar.

"lmeister3 wrote:

FIU. Nuff said. Every. Single. College. Sterotype. Regarding. Women. Evar.

Gonna need some photographic confirmation

"lmeister3 wrote:

As long as I'm happy with what I'm doing... that's all that matters.

Sent from my $1800 MacBook Pro

Oh, okay.

"Laces Out wrote:

Gonna need some photographic confirmation

Photographs don't do it justice.

"padre31 wrote:

Oh, okay.

Dang Pads, you didn't get the statement about the pursuit of a "higher education"? I was dripping in sarcasm there.