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REBELLION; John Horse and the Black Seminoles

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by cnc66, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    The first Black Rebels to beat American Slavery.​


    I found this site by accident whilst perusing Seminole War information for a history presentation I have in a couple weeks. I know several people who would be considered experts on this subject and have had many hours of interesting conversations with them but the subject of the Black Seminoles gets no mileage. I hope to help change that. Looking back I see no prejudice in the exclusion, excepting perhaps Billy Johns, the Seminole Indians Historian. He was unflattering to the Miccosukee, and simply dismissed the Black Seminoles as a non entity. He DID talk about the Calusa Indians, and I hope to sit with him again someday to further explore that subject.

    I am keen on events that involve Blacks. One of the most frustrating things that I contend with is the lack of interest in Florida history by our Black children. I am involved in three separate efforts to bring local history into the Martin County classrooms at the fourth grade level. Anything that a Black child can wrap their minds around and call “theirs” is a victory for me. As soon as history becomes “personal” most of the “pain” in learning it disappears.

    This site is as well put together as any I have run across, the author J.B. Bird, does a quality job of putting together isolated incidents into the big picture. The entire story is sourced, a veritable gem in a sea of unsubstantiated statements.

    There is much to discuss for those interested; The illegal invasion by Andy Jackson, and the agendas of the Spanish and English, which precipitated the First Seminole War. The triggers for the Second Seminole War, a war, like this story largely ignored by mainstream America. The slave revolt and the reasons it has been downplayed. The first emancipation of American slaves.. and much, much more.

    REBELLION; John Horse and the Black Seminoles, the first Black Rebels to beat American Slavery.



    Well said. I found it interesting and disturbing that there are categories for slave rebellion. One term, a “maroon” rebellion describes a revolt by non slaves, which is decidedly less threatening than a “slave revolt” to plantation owners and the public in general, AND, it does not give rise to any “hope” of freedom by those still enslaved. This term has historically been used to describe the Black Seminoles AND the slaves that fled and revolted. This site takes all that on, please peruse it and let me know what you think. I e-mailed JB Bird yesterday thanking him for his efforts and hope to send him a link of this discussion in a couple days and see if he responds.



    Overview > Start here
    There's no one place to start, but this is recommended:

    Picture tour: Summary of the history in 32 pictures.
    Or try one of these options:

    Site introduction: Summary in words.

    Trail narrative: Heart of the site, 450 story panels organized in major segments with many interesting digressions.

    This is an awesome narrative, so much to learn. The prologue is great, please pass your mouse over the Presidents in panel four. John Quincy Adams, and Abraham Lincoln are interesting. Here is the text from that panel;



    Here's the leader of the Black Seminoles, John Horse, pictured here with Zach Taylor who fought him at the Battle of Okeechobee, the pivotal battle of the Second Seminole War.

    [​IMG]

    an aside; many years later the first sawmill on the Lake was at Taylor Creek, (think the City of Okeechobee) which then fed Okeechobee Lake, opened business by loading a cypress log. As the log was being cut all of a sudden all the teeth on the saw blade started flying everywhere sending the sawyers scrambling for cover. The log had a cannonball in it from the Battle of Okeechobee. It took weeks for the new teeth to arrive.

    Highlights & Features: Alternate routes to the story.
    FAQ: Frequently asked questions.
    If you want to read specifically about the largest slave rebellion in U.S. history, visit these pages:

    Introduction to the slave rebellion.
    Information toolkit on the rebellion, for skeptics and scholars.
    Essays: Original articles on the largest slave rebellion in U.S. history, with sources for research.
    Map: Map showing major U.S. slave rebellions by size and date.





    Overview> Introduction to the Black Seminole slave rebellion



    Newspaper headlines of the event;

    [​IMG]

    Caption info: "Massacre of the Whites by the Indians and Blacks in Florida," engraving published by D.F. Blanchard, 1836. This engraving was published by Blanchard in "An Authentic Narrative of the Seminole War: Its Cause, Rise and Progress, and a Minute Detail of the Horrid Massacres of the Whites, by the Indians and Negroes, in Florida, in the Months of December, January and February" (Providence: Printed for D.F. Blanchard and others publishers, 1836).

    The image purports to depict the "horrid Massacre of the Whites in Florida" from December 1835 to April 1836, when "near Four Hundred (including women and children) fell victim to the barbarity of the Negroes and Indians." Noteworthy for its frank depiction of black violence, the engraving is one of the only surviving images from early American history that depicts blacks and Indians fighting as allies. The image also appears to capture, in all its melodrama and horror, the initial Southern reaction to the Black Seminole uprising of 1835-36. Library of Congress, Rare Book and Special Collections Division, LC-USZ62-366.

    I look forward to your impressions.
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well CNC, first things first, how did freedom seeking slaves end up as Seminole Indians? They became members of a "Nation" as Native Americans think of it, so what did they have to do to transform themselves from economic prisoners to Free Nations members?
     
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  3. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    The Seminoles were a rag-tag group comprised primarily of Creek Indians, and to a lesser degree, members from other tribes and run away slaves.

    Here is some more background.

    SEMINOLE INDIANS

    Seminole Tribe of Florida: History
     
  4. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    well, you should peruse the site for the proper details but in a nutshell, it was the Army's doing in the end. They began as free blacks and escaped slaves assimilated into the Indian culture.. they became known as "maroons"

    The Spanish granted all escaped slaves freedom which was a terrible thorn in the side of the slaveowners.. they accused the Spaniards of putting up posters by plantations inviting the slaves down to La Florida.


    When war broke out the second time, they fought with the Seminoles and were recognized by the Army as the "Black Seminoles" At the time of peace, the Black Seminoles agreed to be relocated out west with their Seminole brothers, thus being granted their "freedom" the first emancipated slaves in our history.

    http://www.johnhorse.com/trail/03/a/18.htm


    Creek Tensions, Story Panel 4 of 5 - Part Three, Exile - Rebellion

    Legislation drove them from Texas into Mexico after relocation.. they are not recognized today as a "Nation' and are completely ignored by today's Seminoles. The Texas group tried to sue their way into a big dollar settlement to the Seminole Tribes, but were voted out "by" the Seminoles.
     
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  5. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Thanks Marty, what a fantastic story. I'll be up all night!!:wink2:
     
  6. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    Alen, I was reviewing my hurricane threads and ran across a post by you that I had forgotten. You chimed in about Florida history and said you were interested, especially Indians. Well, you would be hard pressed to have more in front of you than the Seminole wars and this thread covers the second one.

    Ft. Pierce, built in this war was named for a Cousin of mine and is 18 miles north of fanny right now.

    The Seminoles were Lower Creeks involved in wars with their own Tribe and the English, remembering we were still their Colonies, that were pushed south out of Georgia into the now empty Florida. The indigenous Indians we had died out mostly due to European diseases introduced by the Spaniards, and slaving by the English. Englishman cast upon Florida's shores were killed outright. Jonathan Dickinson lived when shipwrecked here because he convinced the Jobe Indians they were friends of the Spanish.

    The Creeks began pushing south in the very late 1600's being well ensconced in northern Florida by the early 1700's. When the Spaniards ceded Florida to the Limeys in 1768 the indigenous Florida Indians were nearly extinct. Most not in SW Florida left with the Spaniards and went to Cuba where they died out, or returned unnoticed and nearly unaccounted for in SW Florida. Billie Johns, the Seminole Tribe Historian tells me his people assimilated some Calusa's in SW Florida and have a Calusa Corn Dance to this day. The Seminoles arrived west of what we now call Ft Lauderdale in the 1830's probably the same time frame they assimilated the Calusa's on the West coast.

    The Second Seminole war was the first to deploy repeating weapons, use land mines, multi service operations, used hot air balloons for aerial surveillance. The United States Army captured Indians under a white flag in this war. The first Emancipated slaves and the largest slave revolt in US history... this war.

    Lots of cool stuff if you take the time to learn it, be happy to help.
     
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  7. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This too peeks my interest,
    Will read up on it after work.
    Thanks Marty.:up:
     
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  8. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    Thanks Denny.. I'm dying for someone to talk too about all this.. see you then.
     
  9. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Thanks for the history lesson Marty!

    I always ask myself this, why is it that this country says that you can come here for freedom but then they had slaves back then? I don't know a lot about the American history so I always wondered that. If they had slaves to grow goods/crops, that would still be anti-freedom because of the slaves.


    I find this quote interesting because I always thought the Indians were the more "blood thirsty and active"? But then I read the next panel and it says John Horse was a mixed African and Indian. He must have had a big influence over the black Seminoles. I know he was the leader but I didn't realize how big of an influence he may have had on his men.
     
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  10. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    Great Post Marty. :up:

    Anytime you want to send me a PM or just chat about any historical stuff I would love that. Finding History buffs is few and far between. :yes:
     
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  11. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    Welcome to the history thread
     
  12. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Marty I don't know if this will be of any help to you in reaching those young blacks but this link is one that I found very interesting and just might also lift the stigma of slavery with a better understanding of just how this all started and the fact that the african was a craftsman who was prized for his craft in house building among other things.

    I also find it funny that the Jamestown uprising as well as the black uprising in Florida are given so little coverage if any at all. I wonder just how many other "uprisings" are still out there to be uncovered?

    Anyway here's the link:

    http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-background-02-06.htm
     
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  13. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Good work!

    If I am not participating alot in here..it isn't because I am not interested.

    I found myself some afternoon reading material.

    thanks guys.
     
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  14. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    Thanks Ron, saved it. I have a presentation before 120 4th graders next month, I'm always looking for ways to involve the kids so that it becomes "their" history too.

    Thanks Section.. there is a LOT to digest just at the one site. For me, it added perspective and a new viewing point for the Second Seminole war.
     
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  15. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Here are some more history facts for you and the young people to read and think about.

    http://staugustine.com/stories/020104/new_2097322.shtml

    http://hierographics.org/yourhistoryonline/yourhistoryonlineII.htm

    The first link is an eye opener for me as I was unaware of the French/African connection in Jax that early or at all in our history.

    A side note** in the late 1950's a developer bought up some land from an African American and developed what became Belair Plaza and the beach front across from it. The story went (if I remember correctly) this man was a freed/runaway former slave who bought this land with a mule and dog and an old wagon. The developer paid alittle over 1 Million dollars for it and that mall opened in DB just before summer in 1960. There was a write up in the Daytona Paper about this some time in 1959 if I remember correctly.

    The second link is a time line which you'll notice that the first Africans start showing up in what became the U.S. in the early 1500's. In fact the second person to set foot in Alabama was an African during that time.

    Dang it Marty you've given me the Bug. I sure hope this helps you cause it sure is fun for me. Thanks:lol::up:
     
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  16. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Though this is a different kind of uprising I had not ever heard of it before.

    http://www.slavenorth.com/emancipation.htm

     
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  17. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    Thanks Ron.. I'm kinda busy with the move and all.. I will get back to this soon.
     
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