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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin D, Feb 12, 2018.
I just love cryptic tweets like a 14 year old girl.
I know the fan base is going to freak out when he walks, but I don't see why. Yeah, he's a GOOD player, but paying GOOD players BIG money is how we get to this perpetual 7-9 finish annually.
I can find a guy on day 2 that could give us 900 yards on 160 targets.
What's gotten this team into perpetual mediocrity is bad drafting and failing to retain the few draft wins. Jarvis Landry is one of few good draft picks over the last few years. When you have a team so devoid of drafted talent it hurts to see one of the few wins walk. This team has been doing this for years now. Sean Smith, Vontae Davis, I'm sure there are much better examples those are just the first 2 that popped into my head. It's ok to let a good player walk because he will cost too much to keep. The problem is when the rest of the roster is devoid of talent because that was one of the only drafted players in the last few years to be worth their draft pick.
Everyone talks so much about QB and coaching on these forums, but the problem is bad drafting. This team has done it as bad as any other team over the last 2 decades and it's not gotten much better after Ireland, which is really saying something.
I think the last three draft classes have been really good.
Charles Harris is going to be a hit, I feel good about McMillan, Tankersley, Godchaux and Taylor had a nice rookie years.
Tunsil struggled, but I'm still pretty confident in him. Xavien Howard started to show out, Kenyan Drake looks like a star and I think Jakeem Grant is finally going to make that jump this year (when he finally gets more reps).
Jordan Phillips had a really nice 2017, Bobby McCain is a plus player, Tony Lippett flashed, Ajayi gave you more than most 5th rounders do.
I think we've gotten better recently.
I agree. A team that drafts well consistently can afford not to saddle their salary cap by paying Jarvis Landry an unfit amount of money.
What’s even worse is the awful contracts we’ve dished out. Giving Landry a 14-15 million dollars = another bad contract. You already paid stills, they cannot invest all that cap space into WR when at the end of the day, they still don’t have the alpha #1 that Parker was supposed to be. If Parker panned out, this wouldn’t even be a discussion.
This is one instance where I'll be happy no matter what happens- if we re-sign Landry, great! If not, then I almost think we're better off since it lets us get out of the mindset of throwing two yard passes to a slow, scrappy receiver that always gives maximum effort.
I think in an ideal offense Landry is your ultimate "6th man" that comes off the bench and makes dynamic plays in short downs/distances. I really don't like him in the starting rotation at all though and I think it keeps a far superior athlete off the field....much like Ajayi did with Drake waiting in the wings. So I'm almost hoping that he doesn't return.
I hold that sentiment only if it's team friendly deal. Otherwise, we'll have too much money tied up in unnecessary areas.
Oh Trav. I so disagree with you here, my man.
You don't see why some people will freak out when he walks? Well, it's because he's been one the best and most consistent playmakers on this team for years now.
Well, I guess he's a GOOD player who's made a lot of GREAT plays and paying good or great players a lot of money is not why we are a perpetually 7-9 team. I always say how funny I think it is that the debate always comes down to money. It always does. It's crazy. Hey, if you want to complain about these crazy, inflated salaries that players get today in general, fine, but paying what the market bares for your best player is not a stupid allocation of funds.
...and here now using vague stats to try to sell a point.
He's a lot more valuable and gives a lot more than and within those 900 yards. He's fought for so many key first downs. I mean, I think he does it so often, that it is now taken for granted. He's fought for some great TDs. He's a ferocious blocker downfield. He bleeds aqua and orange or whatever. S--t, at the end of that Dan Cambell season, I was pretty much done with the whole team except for Landry.
It's crazy to think you can so easily find a player on day 2 that could give us what Landry does. Really? Day 2? S--t, some people where dissing Landry the same way in the Parker vs Landry threads awhile back. How did that work out? How has Carroo worked out? Grant has displayed just and inkling of Landry's talent and value and just in the last couple of games or so.
The ****ty OL play has been an excuse or a reason for Tanne's problems and rightfully so, well you can say the same for a lot of other positions as well. It's not like the OL would give so much time for all of the receivers to consistently get deep, but either way, I don't care if he's considered a 1 2 or 3 receiver or a slot or possession, etc, guy, he's one of, if not the best and most consistent playmakers on the team. Pay the man.
Not against you personally, just some of these anti-Landry arguments.
That's fair. The part I always have a hard time coming to grips with is the his box score and overall talent lulls you into a sense of.... boredom, but then you turn the game on Sunday and he does something spectacular.
But I boil it all down to the same things I always do with wide receivers when it comes to making the big bucks:
1.) Can he consistently beat 1v1 coverage on third and long and in the red zone?
2.) Can he stack a DB (seriously, he never does it)
3.) Can he beat double teams
He just doesn't do the same stuff the big money WRs do. I'd be okay with paying him slightly less than Doug Baldwin.
Yeah, in the end, I don't think he's going to get some crazy #1 money. I think they'll settle somewhere.
You know why this doesn't matter at all? Because we have seen this happen over and over to the Dolphins over the years. We fail to keep those that have passion and the skill to back it up. Would you have to overpay for this man? Probably. The money we used to extend miserable Kiko Alonso and perhaps the Jay Cutler signing have something to say about this. That extra cash right there could have been to handle Landry. I'm tired of this team signing "those that are part of the plan" or "team players" as well. Philbin did this same crap. Landry has fire and wants to win. I'm not saying he's perfect or anything like that but GOOD COACHES get the best players to get on board and do the right thing. I'm tired of the Miami Dolphins having coaches that want it their way instead of helping the players excel at doing it the team way. It's exhausting.
How much is too much for Jarvis?
I definitely think he wont re-sign with us. Also these cryptic messages are the most annoying and childish crap of every offseason.
We should have extended him prior to last season, that would have been smart. But now the chance of losing him for nothing at all is there. And that should cost someone’s job. If we extended him and had no intention of re-signing him we could have snagged an esrly second round pick from some team for him.. possibly a first..
There is always the franchise tag but do we really want to handicap ourselves like that? I guess if you dont see any chance of us winning next year you can do that.
I'd trust you more than the Fins, what with their history in that range over the last 20 years:
2016 Leonte Carroo (3)
2009 Patrick Turner (3)
2006 Derek Hagan (3)
2001 Chris Chambers (2)
1998 Larry Shannon (3)
You could say the same thing about Tannehill and Suh.
I'll ask you, how much is too much for Landry?
Those guys have strapped us to mediocrity and nobody bats an eye and now we won’t pay our best offensive weapon the past 4 years.. typical Miami football.
No clue I'm not a cap expert nor do I pretend to know what he should get paid.. I will say this, he is worth slightly overpaying for because IMO he brings so much to the table and is the heart and soul of the offense that can't be easily replaced.
How do you figure? Tannehill is going to be the 18th highest paid QB in the NFL this year. Good luck finding 17 QBs better than he is.
Suh makes way too much money, but he's arguably the best in the league at his position. Jarvis Landry is nowhere near that.
Landry is wanting money that puts him in the same league as Brown and Jones.
The ignorance is strong in this one. Tannehill is cheap as far as QBs go, but I'm sure that's news to you.
Davante Adams’ contract should be breaking the ceiling off for Landry.. 4 years 58 million. I think 4 years 52 is more than fair.. if he wants 68 mill like Antonio Brown then he has lost his damn mind
A great compromise is when you have two equally dissatisfied parties.
Travis Travis, I’m not sure he deserves insulted because he disagrees with many of us.
When Uncle FinO has to give you advice on etiquette?? You should raise an eyebrow!!
Adios, Jarvis. One more reason to hate the Ravens if it happens.
Right, but if you're going to pissed at the team if Landry is let go, shouldn't there be a max price you're not willing to go over?
I'm asking because the rewriting of history will happen just like it is has started to with OV. There are people who complain that we should have kept OV instead of signing Branch, but forget how much OV actually got and NO ONE here thought he was worth that.
Point is, if Landry wants $15 mil a year (for example) and we don't resign him, is that worth being pissed at the team for?
Irrelevant now and obviously hindsight, but I would have liked us to been proactive in resigning OV the year before his contract was up.
Which is fair, but Im not sure we know for a fact they didn't try and him and his agent were instead eyeing a big payday like they got.
I think I would be comfortable with a $11-12M/yr type deal for Landry which I believe would just be slightly above the Doug Baldwin contract signed in '16. Typical annual appreciation there. Anything more and I'd be willing to quickly move on.
Totally fair. I've been saying that for about 18 months. But I also think that if he was going to accept that kind of deal, it would have happened already.
This was in the comments:
February 12, 2018 at 9:30 am
"Diehard Dolphins fan here and you all are slightly off in your assumptions… for 1 reason. Jarvis Landry is going to get at least $15M! He already turned down $12.8 from “his” team. Landry will either choose a team like the Raiders or 49ers or go to whatever team pays the most. Period. As a fan I will miss him. I won’t make excuses like he is a Hothead, causes untimely penalties or takes cheap shots at opposing players. No, I will only say they Dolphins did fine (well, OK the same near .500) without Mike Wallace, Devon Bess, Olivier Vernon, Dion Jordan, Lamar Miller and Jay Ajayi. In other words, Landry is not the reason for mediocrity and won’t be missed. His SalRy alone could fetch 2 Vet FA Lineman and the Offense would improve. Time to move on. Gonna miss you Jarvis… just stay out of the AFC East and I will cheer for you."
That's the first I've heard of a firm number like that being offered and rejected. Can anyone confirm?
For $15M the dude can walk the plank. Absolutely no thanks.
FFS, there's a great case to be made that Landry isn't even as well-rounded or better than Doug Baldwin, let alone among the league's top WR's.
I won't be pissed if he leaves and another team pays him 14MM plus. Anything below that and I'll be pissed.
My top number is 13.5MM and I'm just basing it off what they paid Kenny Stills, IMO, I value Landry up to 30% more than what Stills was paid.
You don't fight disease with kindness. You fight it with heavy doses of chemotherapy.
IMO, Kenny Stills is better overall than Landry. Stills doesn't get the love he should. He's a very solid route runner, and rarely misidentifies the coverage according to option route choices. Stills is also excellent at tracking the ball downfield.
I agree. Landry is a step below Baldwin, but that's still the best comp. Understandable that he would shoot for a similar contract. To think that he deserves a ton more is lunacy, but then again, Jarvis often seems as if he's pretty out there.
Stills is one dimensional while Landry makes game saving plays and critical first downs on a weekly basis. Vehemently disagree. I'd much rather continue to let Grant develop, retain Landry and then cut Still in 2019 once you can trust Grant to be a consistent deep threat.
By out there do you mean setting an all-time NFL record for receptions his first 4 years? By out there do you mean pushing piles for first downs, breaking tackles and being the emotional leader of the team?
Sign me up for "out there" all day every day. You put 53 Jarvis "Out There" types on this team and you're going to the Super Bowl.