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Ravens@Dolphins game thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Disgustipate, Oct 6, 2013.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is a pretty irritating game to lose, given all the dumb mistakes and unforced errors that lead to it, and even then you're a long missed field goal with the distance away from potentially a different outcome.

    Especially when you lose by three in a game where the opposing team was essentially gifted seven.

    Ryan Tannehill had a hit and miss game. Too many errors at the end of the day, but some pretty awesome moments as well. Too many plays were left on the field because of misfires and Mike Wallace drops, though.

    I cannot reconcile the number of plays where Ryan Tannehill just stares down the field and doesn't react to pressure in the slightest to what we saw on the 4th down play on the last drive. The guy has so much talent and ability as an escape artist, and it's not being used when it is desperately needed. He just stares down the field and then covers the ball when a defender closes in on him.

    They need to figure something out with Mike Wallace. Like bribe him into retiring, or making him miserable enough we can restructure his cap hit so we can get rid of him this off-season. The guy is poison.

    Charles Clay is pretty good, on the other hand.

    The offensive line had a pretty mediocre day today, but to a certain extent that's to be expected given the circumstances. Terrell Suggs and Elvis Dumervil vs. our tackles was not a winning proposition, and the coaching staff should have made better adjustments to that. Run some goddamned draw plays.

    The defensive line had a pretty solid game without Cameron Wake. Not great, but not bad.

    Jared Odrick I think is going to make Randy Starks expendable contract-wise.

    Olivier Vernon had another good week in a row, and it suddenly seems like he has turned the corner as a pass rusher. There seems like there is a big difference between him as an edge defender and lining up at a tight technique in the base. Since Wake has gone down they've shifted around the positioning, and now he's seeing the edge more and playing well.

    When Wake gets back, I'm not sure if they don't pull OV from the base package and stick someone else(Shelby?) there.

    I'm pretty confident that Dion Jordan is going to be a player at this point. He's not there yet, and I don't know he should have a starter position but he's been flashing. Bull-rushing Michael Oher into the pocket, coming around and hitting the ball on a key interception for the 2nd time in three weeks, and then the almost-interception.

    The linebackers rebounded and I think had a much better game. Both Misi and Wheeler had good games, although Misi appeared to be hurt again.

    Jason Trusnik had a pretty good game considering the circumstances, I think. I doubt he gets much practice time at MLB during the week.

    Brent Grimes did not have a good game. He got some plays in, and suffered a bull**** PI penalty, but he got his lunch eaten by Torey Smith.

    Besides Grimes, I think the defensive backs did OK. Reshad Jones still isn't playing particularly well as a whole, but he's still making some plays. That interception was kind of a gimme, but that whole sequence was crazy.

    Caleb Sturgis is apparently human after all, too.
     
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  2. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

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    Mediocre? How about disgustingly awful play from the o-line today. We wish we had mediocre o-line play.
     
  3. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    A big part of the problem is the mix match identity of the OL. Either get guys that can play in the ZBS and use the speed of Ryan Tannehill to their advantage or get huge guys up there that will simply push defenses around. They'd be much better served taking the slow linemen off the field in Jerry and Clabo and getting creative with their running game.

    The Broncos 98 should be your template. That's the kind of team Miami can be at their best. (Here comes the brigade saying we're not the 98 Broncos, key word "template").
     
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  4. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Every mediocre offensive line out there just got insulted by your statement.
     
  5. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your pass protection is in fact mediocre. So far this year they've actually given up a below average number of pressures on the year, and I'm virtually certain that trend will continue after today. The problem is the number of pressures that are translating into sacks.

    If that number game from guys getting free, unblocked shots at the quarterback, then that'd be something. That's not the case except for an occasional blitz.
     
  6. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    That's like saying a pitcher is mediocre, he only looks horrible due to the high volume of balls put in play that result in hits

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk now Free
     
  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think that's a good description of some of the problems in the run game, but I think Richie Incognito exemplifies that mix-match as much, if not more than Clabo does. He's gotten a bit less stiff pulling, but he can't run to save his life.
     
  8. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I'll tell you one good thing about Miami in terms of their offensive line. They realize the problem. Logan Thomas is an athletic ZBS guy, Yeatman who they shifted permanently to OT is a ZBS system guy. Sherman tried to move the line outside to beat the Ravens away from Ngata and those guys. It didn't work. I think once you get the threat of the running game down, then things will open up.

    I agree on Incognito running. He should be the RG. The RG should merely be asked to make a short pull. He's very useful for making misdirection and other plays like that where you need a mix of skills. Having Incognito and Jerry at the guard spots basically means ok we're going to come straight at you and unless the other team is weak it doesn't work. That's not Pouncey's skill, Jerry has no technique to blow a DT off the ball (he's a RT as well), and Incognito can only do so much. Incognito is also matching up with the wrong position against three-techniques.

    The correct approach would be to say we suck at running the ball, let's at least find an identity, milk that, and use creative play-calling to keep the defense off balance.
     
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  9. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    They're not giving more pressure because Miami's offense centers around quick passes and Tannehill is getting rid of the ball fairly quickly. If they had to block for longer periods because of play calling and QB play, they would be among the last teams in pressures allowed too.
     
  10. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't understand the metaphor(or why people watch baseball to be honest), can you translate or go with another metaphor?
     
  11. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    As far as I can tell Miami was hoping that Jerry would turn it around, Clabo would turn it around, and they have an investment in Martin. None of those compare to Tannehill though and Ireland will step in this week and say ok guys we want to keep him healthy, let's move things in that direction.
     
  12. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The problem is that going with what you hope will happen is not the way to win anything.
     
  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think that's true, I think that depends on how it's blocked.

    The problem is how the offensive line issues are being mitigated, not with that the offensive line issues leaving the team with a non-viable situation.
     
  14. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    I wrote this comment in response to yours in another thread just now, but i'll write it here too.

    The o-line is getting bailed out by the offensive game plan and Tannehill getting the ball out quickly, thus negating a lot of the would be pressure.

    The o-line is basically 70% of the time bad, and 30% of the time really bad. The offensive plan and Tannehill are quick enough to offset the bad most of the time, but cannot do anything against the really bad. Hence the disparity in pressure and sacks.

    Think of it like this, 70% of the time, the o-line gives pressure at and after 2.5 seconds; and 30% of the time, the o-line gives pressure under 2.5 seconds.

    Basically, the offensive plan and Tannehill are quick enough to get rid of the ball within 2.5 seconds, thus they negate most of that 70% pressure coming after 2.5 seconds. However the 30% of the time the pressure gets there within 2.5 seconds, he still has the ball and gets sacked.

    The o-line stats on pressure are getting bailed out big time.
     
  15. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If that's the case, why haven't we seen any sacks come before the 2.6 mark?
     
  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Dion Jordan came out of the shadow for this one.

    Clabo and Martin should be taken on a tour of the Katryn Forest and demonstrated to what happened there.

    Clabo is a Vet, he should know better, he'd be first.
     
  17. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    There are some good things happening:

    Shelby is really playing well in run support. He's moved Vernon into a true edge spot where he can make a difference. The DTs are now two deep at each spot.

    If they can pull something out of that OL mess then they're in good shape. I think it's time Gillislee got a shot.
     
  18. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    We've seen plenty of sacks coming in within 2.6 minutes. However, there is a time difference when the pressure begins vs when the sack occurs. That time difference account for QB moving around trying to avoid the sack, etc.
     
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think we've seen very much of Ryan Tannehill moving around trying to avoid the sack.

    Hell, I don't think we've seen very much of Ryan Tannehill even acknowledging pressure besides tucking the ball when someone has made contact.
     
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  20. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    He does a great Henne impression. 5 times each Sunday.
     
  21. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    At least we don't buttfumble here.
     
  22. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    That is true. However there are also aspects to this. One part is definitely him needing to do better in sensing and avoiding the pressure. The other part is, one can't help but wonder if it is not a mandate for the coaching staff for him to just stand there and scan the field, and just cover the football and eat the sack instead of trying to make something and risking worse results.

    The third aspect is more on the o-line not affording lanes and a pocket within which Tannehill can operate. Both tackles are getting buckled and Tannehill either does not have time to climb, has no lane to climb, or when he does climb, the guards are getting pushed back right into him.

    I very much think the o-line has the great majority of the blame here. Without the o-line at least producing some steadily positive results, we cannot accurately evaluate the level of Tannehill's pocket qualities.
     
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  23. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think this is very much the case, and I think it happened last year too. Early in the year and after his injury he was seemingly told not to run, this year he hardly ever even makes the attempt.

    When Tannehill makes up his mind to escape, he's an excellent escape artist. He hasn't been doing that.

    I don't so much agree with this. There are times when it's happening, but I don't think it's a reason for the hole they're in or a mitigating circumstance.

    I think it's essentially a 1/3rd proposition all around between the blockers, Tannehill, and coaching.
     
  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'm led to believe losing Ellerbe was a factor in this game. We had a 13-6 lead heading into halftime and held Baltimore to 15 rushes for 33 yards, forced a fumble that Ellerbe recovered, and were roughly even in time of possession. In the 2nd half, minus Ellerbe's presence in the middle, Baltimore rushed 23 times for 87 yards, 2 TDs, 3 first downs, and controlled the clock.
     
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  25. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    All the more frustrating when he makes a play like the one to Gibson. I don't know if it's coaches instructions or what but he has the ability to break the pocket and he's not using it.
     
  26. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    WTF is going on w our running game? It's an embarrassment. Buffalo ran for 200+ on the Ravens last week and once again Sherm abandoned it at the first sign of failure.
     
  27. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good points.

    I just saw the replay of the 4th and 10 throw to Gibson. Did anyone else think the throw was in stride and a dive wasn't needed? I could be dead wrong but it looked like Gibson could've caught that in stride, turned it up the field and scored.
     
  28. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I just made a similar comment in the game thread after watching the play again. He gets anywhere from 5 yds to a TD if he doesn't leave his feet imo.
     
  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    :dunno: We's got some figurin' out to do.
     
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    So are our fat bodies up front that incapable of occasionally providing a moving pocket to help open up more passing lanes and alleviate a bit of pressure, especially to buy more time to feed Wallace on verticals so we don't have to worry about passes getting hung up? You know- give Tanny some legitimate chances to let it rip.
     
  31. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I just watched it again and I don't think there's much more he could have done. Gibson had to run from the far side of the field all the way to the near sidelines on a deep pass. That's a lot of running. Also, his momentum was taking him out of bounds so he was just trying to make sure he got the secured the catch and got down in bounds.
     
  32. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Not sure I agree with that since when he jumped he landed inbounds and slid on the grass for like 4 yards before being touched down (all inbounds and not in danger of hitting the sideline).
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dpate?, so your telling me there is a theory in the modern NFL not to be multiple? Offensively?
     

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