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QB's for 2015 Draft (aka the 19th starting QB since Marino)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Bpk, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Continuing the look at quarterbacks that are showing up out of nowhere, Gunner Kiel deserves a closer inspection.

    But he's another that is more likely for 2016 than 2015.

    [video=youtube;vyv3Cg2-Lsg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyv3Cg2-Lsg[/video]
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Rakeem Cato fans...here's the Marshall vs. Akron video put on by DUNK MEDIA who puts out like 25 minutes highlight reels essentially showing every good play.

    [video=youtube;SDBaonD4an0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDBaonD4an0&list=UUqtg0FdNZ5cTGELBGyCBgsw[/video]

    Also the countdown is on for Cato closing in on Russell Wilson's record for most consecutive games with at least one touchdown pass. The record stands at 38 games for Wilson. Cato is now at 36 games and will play the 37th next week against Old Dominion. The tying game would be at home against Middle Tennessee State, and the record would be set on the road against Florida International.

    Russell Wilson's single season efficiency record is probably going to go down this year. There are a bunch of QBs threatening it thus far.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Here's a pretty nice play (05:39 in the vid):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDB...cTGELBGyCBgsw&feature=player_detailpage#t=339

    It's 3rd & 15. Hardly an ideal down.

    Watch closely the defender in the slot to the near side, the white dude. The perimeter receiver on his side is going to run a fake stalk block into a slant right into his zone while the back in the backfield runs to the flat underneath him. Cato knows that the perimeter corner to the near side is in a deep zone look so he's primarily going to be working this white dude in the slot playing underneath coverage.

    The fact the back is releasing into the flat already has the middle linebacker busting his @ss to get out to him and cover him. Cato throws his eyes over to the back running into the flat and even pump fakes him. This forces the slot defender to freeze his feet and respect the underneath route. But Tommy Shuler switches from a stalk-block to a slant right into the zone vacated by the defenders reacting to Cato's eyes and pump fake. Cato switches to him, hits him in stride, bam it's a conversion on 3rd & 15.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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  5. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    If Tannehill ends up with a 90+ rating, you can sort of argue that no first rounder be taken. I don't think you can justify not taking Cato if he's still there after the second round. Matt Moore is not worth $5 million to this team and Cato is a guy who can potentially become a trade piece in the future. This is assuming Cato doesn't blow the doors off the NFL and takes the job by the throat.
     
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  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Right now many services aren't even rating Cato as draftable.

    I've been nuts about guys this early before that were discovered to have very serious warts that prevent them from being graded well or having a good chance of making it in the NFL. Nate Davis comes to mind. He ended up having a serious learning disorder and being (forgive me) dumb as a box of rocks. I was very high on Colt Brennan at this early stage as well, before I came to respect how much arm strength and velocity really does mean to a prospect's chances.
     
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  7. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    While this is unfortunate for a kid and his earning potential short term, this is fortuitous for the team. If they run the table and get a spot in the Bran Flakes Eat Your Fiber Bowl that could raise his stock though. But then again, I'm pretty comfortable with him as a third rounder at this point. I no longer discount the guy who just makes stuff happen. Russell Wilson is that guy. Andrew Luck is that guy.
     
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  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That made me laugh out loud, the Bran Flakes Eat Your Fiber Bowl.
     
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  9. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    Watching Cato tear up Old Dominion this afternoon... he had 2 TDs and 2 INTs. However, the 1st INT should have been reversed. It was reviewed and upheld, but the ball clearly hit the ground first IMO (and the announcers). The second one was a quick slant to Shuler in the endzone. The ball was ever so slightly behind him but still very catchable. It bounced off Shuler's chest and was picked off. He only attempted about 23 pass attempts but ran plenty of read option plays. Marshall ran it down ODU's throat.
     
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  10. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Nick Marshall is not a QB, but, is he a QB? To be clear, he's not a QB, but what if he was?

    EDIT: This is more about how scary Auburn would be with an actual QB. Amazing what Malzahn has done with a DB though.
     
  11. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Between Hoskins and now Cato, the Miami Dolphins fan base is slowly turning into a bunch of Marshall Thundering Herd fans. I love it.
     
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  12. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    I think the name that'll be associated (by doubters) with Cato (and Marshall) will be Pat White. System/size/consistency in pocket questions when forced to play from there all game.
     
  13. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    My problem with Marshall is accuracy. His completion percentage just isn't there for a guy at 7.51 YPA. I'm also still stuck on that last drive in the BCS championship game last year where he just couldn't make anything happen. Cato is at least at 9.6 YPA. He's also not playing with Sammy Coates. Admittedly, Marshall's receivers have had some suspect plays hands-wise.

    Marshall has some statistical similarity to White as great runners but not very prolific as passers. Cato is a play maker. If the media wants to play "Which black guy QB does his other black QB play like?" then White and Marshall, from a statistical perspective, are very similar. Cato has to be a Russell Wilson type of guy IMO though.
     
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  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I didn't see the game but I figured at least one of the picks had to be a pop-up that hit the receiver. It would be very unlike Cato to make two really poor decisions/throws like that in a game where he only threw the ball 23 times. And IMO if it actually hit the receiver in the chest, then it's hard to critique him for throwing it behind the guy. If the placement is only off by a foot, then IMO the placement isn't really off far enough to be considered poor. It sounds like that 1st interception is deserved though. I don't know how much I care that it technically should not have been a pick. Still he doesn't make many poor decisions or throws if you really look, so once in a while isn't that concerning.

    He had a few dicey decisions against Rhode Island, surprisingly. I wonder if his mindset in that game was to be ultra aggressive because it was Rhode Island. I would never accuse him of not taking a game seriously, but your mindset can be different in different games based on what you expect.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I love Malzahn so much. Part of me does wish we could scrap the whole Harbaugh thing and just hire Gus. But that way lies heartbreak most likely, IMO. We'll make an overture toward Gus and he'll decide to stay in college, or he'll go to the Dallas Cowboys, or something like that. Then again pursuing Harbaugh could lead to heartbreak too, a second time.
     
  16. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    The first one technically should not have been an interception but without question it was a poor decision and throw. Other than that Marshall and Cato look prepared to run the table this year. Makes me wonder if they are that good or the competition is that poor.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I agree with this. Other than size and skin color I don't know why anyone would compare Rakeem Cato to Pat White.

    I think the comparison will be a poor man's Russell Wilson.

    On the other hand I could see a Pat White and Nick Marshall comparison. There's backing to that.
     
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  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Both.

    We'll just have to see how they do it. No matter what the competition is like, you have to have something special to just consistently beat everyone down like Marshall has been doing. They entered the Akron game favorited by "only" 9.5 points. They beat them by 31. They entered this game against ODU favorited by "only" 17.5 points, and won by 42. I think Vegas has been trying to tell us that outside of one position, Marshall isn't necessarily head and shoulders above these teams.
     
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  19. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    Well, it will be interesting to see how they fare against Middle Tennessee. MTSU beat ODY by 2 TDs I believe last week and played Minnesota close as well earlier this season. Cato has obviously been helping out their rushing game as well this season. Devon Johnson and Remi Watson are BOTH averaging over 8 ypc this season and have 11 TDs between the 2 of them. Just crazy stuff.

    Actually, taking a look at the team's rushing stats they have 18 rushing TDs and are moving the ball incredibly well across the board. http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/stats/_/id/276/marshall-thundering-herd
     
  20. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    He's every bit a quarterback as Tommy Armstrong is... Nick Marshall is a running back for the CFL at best, don't see him getting drafted by any team in the NFL.
     
  21. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's the biggest game we play on our schedule, IMO.

    Last year MTSU beat us in a TNF game where it was a straight shootout. They beat us on a last second TD on 4th down. A drive where they converted 3 4th downs, including a 4th and 15. It was a heartbreaker.

    This year, they come to the Joan and it's Homecoming. This week was a fantastic week for the Herd because of all the losses. The only shot we have at getting into the playoff is if we're the only undefeated team and are winning very convincingly. It's a LOOOOOOOOONG shot, pipe dream, but hey...gotta have it. If not, we'll get an opportunity at an At-Large bid for one of the other big bowls which is huge for us.

    Regarding our running game...Devon Johnson has been a God-send. He was our back-up TE/FB/H-Back last year. He trimmed down a little more and he just made so many plays that Bill Legg, our OC, realized we needed to get him on the field more. Wow. Has it ever worked out.

    Going into the season Kevin Grooms, a UM transfer, & Stew Butler were our 1-2 punch. They were both guys that could break the long ball. Now, it's Johnson & Watson. Remi was another well-regarded HS recruit (3 star guy out of GA). I thought he'd be the 2nd best out of all them, behind Grooms, and it didn't happen for him...until this year. He's been fantastic. The fact we can run the football has added a big punch for us.

    Truthfully, our passing game still hasn't clicked and we're the only team that's scored 40+ pts all year long (since Baylor failed to get to 40 Saturday). I worry if we could just run a 2 min drill where we HAD TO HAVE a TD to win the game or some crucial situation like that. However, if we're never in that scenario until our last game..fine with me.

    Sorry to hijack the QB thread...my bad fellas.
     
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  22. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    That makes sense that Devon Johnson converted to tailback. I couldn't believe the explosiveness he had - looks terrifying trying to tackle him when he runs.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This is just cool. First off if you've become a fan and want to see the full ODU highlights I recommend this video which is a half hour long.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R2VyHEJrvU

    Second if you want to just go ahead and fast-forward to about 4:19 into the video I think this is just entertaining. You have an end zone view of a run play and it's just funny how early Rakeem Cato knew this was a touchdown. He hands the ball off, a crease forms, it's not a wide open hole by any means but all Cato needs to see is that there's a hat on a hat and immediately he raises his hands to signify touchdown. The runner is still at the freaking line of scrimmage which was 10 yards outside of the end zone, and somehow Rakeem Cato knows that's a touchdown.

    Don't want to make a big thing out of something stupid and trivial, but he just sees the game.
     
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  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Wow you were right. That was NOT an interception. Holy cow, it wasn't even that close. Ball clearly hits the ground and bounces up into the guy's arms.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_R2VyHEJrvU#t=476

    And looking at it, Rakeem Cato committed an error of throwing late over the middle, but I think it's important to note the placement of the ball which was low to where the offensive player would have to dive to go get it. That's usually on purpose when you're throwing into traffic in the middle of the field. It lowers the chances of a pick. In this case it should have lowered the chances to zero.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I like the graphic at one point in the game that shows an interesting comparison between Rakeem Cato and Taylor Heinicke. Heinicke is 1st among all active FBS & FCS quarterbacks in completions, attempts, yards and touchdowns. Rakeem Cato is 2nd in completions, attempts and touchdowns, 3rd in yards.

    Heinicke himself underrated but I think you can tell watching them side by side which translates better and has more pure ability.
     
  26. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    I didn't even think of that. I originally thought the ball slipped as he threw it into traffic, but that makes sense. He played a great game otherwise. Just shredded ODU. Also came away impressed by Marshalls defense. ODU just couldn't move the ball at all
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    NFL Draft Bites had some interesting things to say. Very well connected guy that has absolutely nailed several things about Miami and many other teams, the way he tweets you can tell he's ex-NFL and well connected.

    This doesn't mean that this is how things will shake out, but it's interesting to get the take on how some of the ground level scouts are seeing things.
     
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  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Incidentally the Colorado State-Pueblo quarterback he's referring to is Chris Bonner, who is 6'6" & 225 lbs. He's actually got some very interesting traits for the position on tape. For such a tall and big quarterback he's actually got pretty decent feet. That's one thing that stands out. Naturally he's also got a big arm. Benjamin Albright on twitter believes he's one of the two best seniors in the class.

    The Prairie View quarterback is Jerry Lovelocke and I've not seen any tape of him. He's 6'5" & 242 lbs, supposedly runs a 4.96.

    People sleeping on a guy like Rakeem Cato because of size.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Freshly uploaded:

    [video=youtube;f5WdBRYHjvA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5WdBRYHjvA[/video]
     
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  30. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    Okay, that was cool. He saw that was a TD before he even crossed the LOS. It looked like ODU might have even had a shot at taking him down too before the goal line. Awesome.
     
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  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Right?

    I mean it's little stuff like that, just kind of awesome. He knew that was a TD before Devon Johnson knew that was a TD.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Connor Cook's pure combination of throwing prowess and willingness to throw into risky situations is almost comical. That's why I keep comparing him to Brett Favre. It has that sort of surreal quality that Favre used to have.

    Honestly if Winston were to stay in school and Connor Cook, Brett Hundley and Marcus Mariota were to come out, I think I'd probably take Cook first of the group.

    But it's going to be an enigmatic, controversial class I think. Much like the 2011 class.
     
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  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    And Connor Halliday is going to deserve a lot more looks by the time all is said and done.

    I've been a little disappointed during his career that his decision making didn't come along as quickly as I thought it could, but the simple fact of the matter is the dude is 250 of 369 for 3052 yards, 26 TDs and 7 INTs.

    That's not a full season. That's SIX GAMES.

    He's on pace to finish 500 of 738 for 6104 yards, 51 TDs and 14 INTs.
     
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  34. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jameis Winston in the 2nd round is the steal of the 21st century.

    If he declares and is there for pick #33, that will be the most valuable second round pick in the history of the league. Will fetch at least a first rounder in the following draft.
     
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  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    More bad news on the way for Jameis Winston I'm afraid.

    For starters FSU is convening a disciplinary hearing to decide if he will face discipline over the rape allegations. That is not as big a deal as it sounds, IMO. I think it's part face saving since they actually should have done that like 12-18 months ago. I think it's also a way for them to assert leverage over Jameis in an attempt to 'encourage' him to keep his nose clean.

    So really I would be surprised if that's a big deal.

    What could be a big deal?

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...gurley-linked-to-same-authenticator/17053107/

    The same authenticator that got Todd Gurley in trouble has authenticated over 100 items with Jameis Winston's signature. It's highly circumstantial and nothing indicates he was paid for it, but it's going to be investigated.

    Personally, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with Todd Gurley getting paid for autographs. Nor would I Winston. I have a problem with the NCAA slavers who don't allow it. However the negative for Winston is really I think he needed to stay in school another year, and this could essentially decide that for him.
     
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  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Nah. Rakeem Cato doesn't have pro talent.

    [video=youtube;AUfEZRdhwig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUfEZRdhwig&feature=youtu.be[/video]
     
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  37. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I expected Gus to bring in a QB after last season and that's even with them having gone to the National Championship game. Looks like it would have been a smart move. They haven't had the running game they had last year with Mason and Robinson gone. The concerns I had with Mason after the last drive in the NCG are back. Is he a guy that can make things happen. I've felt he has been good at executing what Gus has wanted but I don't see any flash from the guy.

    This is the singular concern I have about Gus. Does he trust his system too much? Will he run with the guy who can execute his system too long simply because he has faith in his system and he hasn't run into problems yet? I'm not an expert by any means, but if you have the opportunity to upgrade, you do it. Just as an example, we could have drafted Bridgewater and still probably gotten Ja'Wuan James. That would have been preferable than freaking Jarvis "We better justify that second round pick" Landry.

    EDIT: Now, this is not to say Auburn can't win with Marshall. Just that his success isn't really questionable as to what is causing it.
     
  38. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    C & C Express? Cooke an Cato?
     
  39. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Of all the QBs in the draft this season....which one has the best "NFL QB head?"... which one is most likely going to be able to quickly process the defense in front of him, and can be creative. The one hallmark Im seeing from elite QBs..isnt really elite skills..its an elite football QB brain.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    As I'm clipping up some of the videos of Rakeem Cato there has definitely been a notable curve this year.

    The first game against Miami of Ohio was rough at certain points as the passing offense tried to deal with the loss of Gator Hoskins and the defense trying to take away Tommy Shuler. And against Rhode Island, I actually thought Cato had a few of the most legitimately bad decisions that I've seen him have in his career.

    Now, mind you, even a "bad" day for him translates to Heisman worthy numbers. He was 20 of 32 for 261 yards, 3 TDs and 0 INTs against Miami (OH), and tacked up 1 run TD. Against Rhode Island he was 15 of 29 for 267 yards, 2 TDs and 0 INTs, tacking on 9 runs for an incredible 143 yards and 1 TD on the ground.

    But I thought starting with the Ohio game which was a big angsty performance for Marshall as Ohio had beaten them a number of times consecutively, that's when Cato came on more. Statistically it doesn't look as impressive because there have been some interceptions (including some pop-ups and whatnot). But on film he really actively getting better each game from Ohio to Akron to Old Dominion and then this weekend to the Middle Tennessee State game which may be the best I've seen him play.
     
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