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QB's for 2015 Draft (aka the 19th starting QB since Marino)

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Bpk, Aug 27, 2014.

  1. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Yes it's early. Yes Tannehill could be the ONE. But no, he's likely not.

    I'll kick it off with a lazily-uninformed cut-and-paste job of googled QB prospect lists for 2015.

    CBS Sports - Updated 8/25/2014
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2015/QB


    NFL.com - Bucky Brooks, Aug. 20th 2014
    See full list up to #10 at http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...n-marcus-mariota-are-top-qbs-to-watch-in-2014



    Questions:

    1) What style of offense could each play? (If Tanny goes we may be looking at a coaching and scheme change too)

    2) In case Ross keeps Hickey in this scenario, which QB is likely to be a "Hickey-type-of-guy"?
     
  2. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    There's also a guy at Ole Miss, plays tonight, "Bubba Jenkins" or something like that.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You talking about Bo Wallace? LOL.

    Bubba Jenkins.
     
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  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    For the record I'm not a buyer yet on Bryce Petty.

    Jameis Winston I'm extremely wary about the incredible stupidity of his screwups. Stealing crab legs? Really? Even if it's just a situation where that Publix gives (NCAA violation) hookups to FSU players and the floor manager on duty that particular day just wasn't aware of the hookup, still just stupid as hell. And the rape thing...trust me there was definitely something unrighteous going on. And all of this either does completely fit with his plastic preacherman speech routine, or it doesn't fit with it all depending on whether you buy into it or not. He speaks the most utter nonsense with maximum sincerity. But the guy can play football, factoring in how young he is and how much development progress he could make. You can question his off the field decision making, but the guy KNOWS the sport and studies it like anyone you've ever seen at his age.

    The thing that makes me wary of Marcus Mariota are A) his presence in the pocket, and B) his accuracy. He fumbles the football A LOT and you can't help but notice how skinny he is in the pocket when you see that. He doesn't have what I would call a great pocket sense or a lot of escapability, despite his athleticism. I see him running from ghosts a lot. And when push comes to shove, he's throwing the ball inaccurately a lot. But off the field and from a personality standpoint, everything I hear comes up Milhouse. So if he's just got to improve some things before he becomes worthy of the hype about him, that's not any kind of deal breaker. He could improve.

    Brett Hundley again, accuracy issues. But more decision-making issues as well.

    Connor Cook is a guy that really looks and plays exactly as you want for the position. But he's old school. No real athletic ability to speak of. That could be a problem in today's NFL going forward, I hate to admit. The other problems with him are, A) too many screwed up decisions (still quite young), and B) maybe this is a problem and maybe it isn't but he wasn't voted a team captain and I heard some reactions from people that follow the team that were not all that surprised. Maybe they're not surprised because only seniors get voted captain at MSU, I dunno. Or maybe he's not Captain Terrific in the locker room...which would kind of suck because he's got potential.

    Shane Carden is a very, very accurate passer, and a good decision maker. But I question his arm strength.

    I love Chuckie Keeton's playing speed, and his athleticism is what you want nowadays, but there's a funkiness in the way he delivers the football especially on the run. I'm not sure he's really got that feel like he is able to keep all his options open from different platforms, both inside and outside the pocket. I wonder if there are limitations there. But the playing speed alone could translate to NFL success.

    Connor Halliday is still a wildcard. Big arm. Accurate. Has really flashed play-maker abilities under duress. But in the end, some disappointing decisions keep coming out of him...part of which you know is the offense and the coaching. And the dude is a bean pole. It's no wonder he got a lacerated liver a few years back.

    Cody Fajardo strikes me as a poor man's Marcus Mariota. He could be an interesting question, down the road. Remember Colin Kaepernick was once a poor man's Cam Newton...but both became good quarterbacks.

    People know that I love Rakeem Cato. Every now and then he's guilty of making one of those "trying to be a hero" bad decisions. Every now and then the ball comes out a little inaccurately. But really the biggest issue with him is just size. Otherwise the guy is one hell of a play-maker, with great escapability and presence of mind. He can operate one of those high-powered spread offenses by being reliable in where he puts the ball in the quick passing game, and he can also make hella good plays when things break down. And despite his size, he does NOT take big hits. He has the presence of mind to avoid contact and save himself. Just a very good football player that plays the game the way I love to see. I just want to see him improve in all facets as a passer and decision-maker but there's Russell Wilson type potential in the way he approaches the game. But he doesn't have Russell Wilson type experience in a pro style offense and that could be important.
     
  5. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I like Hundley for no real reason. I see all of those accuracy issues. The bowl game was particularly egregious. His physical tools are amazing but you'd have to bank on him being Colin Kaepernick or a poor man's Jay Cutler, who is already a poor man's someone else.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    David Ash also has a lot of natural talent so I'd be interested in seeing what he does this year.

    Sean Mannion one of those guys that kind of looks the part and plays the part but in the end can't do anything dynamically and also can't necessarily be relied upon to be consistent or clutch...so what do you REALLY have here? Probably a backup.
     
  7. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    lol. Yea, that's it, Thank bro!

    As far as Mariota, he plays fast, makes quick decisions and usually nails it. The thing to look for with him is the rare pocket moments. For a guy like that, It would do a world of good to transfer to Wiscy like Russell Wilson and learn to play in the pocket as well.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I get most worried when I see Mariota run from ghosts, and then fumble when any contact comes in on him. I also get mildly worried about all the errant passes, though I understand as a really young player that's something that you expect to get better.
     
  9. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Am I wrong for, at the current time, having zero prospects for Jameis Winston? Every part of what he did seemed so easy and for some reason that makes me skeptical. Then he'd have a bad stretch like the first half vs. Miami and come right back but I'd be stuck on the **** show of the first half. That's not to say he had many such bad stretches.
     
  10. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Forgot to add that the fact that I'm a fan of the U is why I can't like Winston. He's a great player. Needs sport contacts though.
     
  11. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I don't think Winston throws a very good ball honestly. I want to see him without his huge target at WR bailing him out. I notice a lot of wobble in his passes even if they do reach the target.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Winston has a funky finger disfigurement on the ring finger of his throwing hand that will get some scrutiny from evaluators when it comes time. Whenever he throws a less than ideal ball, a lot of people are going to see that as the reason why.

    But the thing to note about him is how very smart he is on the field, how much football theory he knows and is able to put into practice, and the fact that he never ever looks overwhelmed. Hell I think Tannehill can get overwhelmed in a preseason game once he makes a bad mistake and decides he's just going to pile them on. Happened twice just this preseason. The NCAA Championship Game in the first half is probably the only time you've ever seen the situation get bigger than Winston, and he quickly wrested control of the situation back in the second half. That's a pretty rare trait, IMO.
     
  13. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I think Jameis goes to a third year before he declares anyways, the scouts and agents will tempt him but he needs more polishing... Manziel left a year too early in my opinion and he will pay for it just like Sanchez did when he left USC.
     
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think I kind of isolated in my mind what I don't like about Chuckie Keeton's throwing. He really needs a lot of hip torque to throw the ball. Despite his fast playing speed, it slows down the throwing process and limits his options. And when you see him unable to get his feet and over-pronate his hip, the ball comes out pretty inaccurately.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Winston's parents seem pretty intent on keeping him in until he graduates. I could see that happening. This draft could come down to Marcus Mariota and Brett Hundley at the top, with Connor Cook the riser.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This is what I wrote about Connor Cook in the other thread:

    Reminds me a little bit of Brett Favre.

    Jameis Winston is the best of the group but as stated he may go back to school for another year under pressure from his parents. And we still have to see whether he can mature.

    Probably gonna come down to Hundley, Mariota and Cook. Maybe Kevin Hogan as well. Of those I can imagine Hundley regressing and falling out of the group altogether, or progressing rapidly and becoming the top guy.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Kevin Hogan gets a bad rap from some people but I think he's got the potential to be a pro starter. Good execution oriented player with solid decision-making skills and accuracy. Really has a knack for running and gaining yards. Big body, strong guy. I think Greg Cosell is probably going to pick apart his deep ball (what's new) but I don't know how much value that's going to have in the evaluation. He's able to get velocity on his throws and he's got a good release for the most part.
     
  18. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    ...or we could wait 3 years for Deshaun Watson. :shifty: #FutureTop10pick
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    When do we begin discussing Taysom Hill as a legit top quarterback prospect?

    Where's DJ? He should be all over this guy.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This is not something I would have expected but that always happens every year.

    This kid is in the early stages of a meteoric rise. He's already near the very top of early watch lists for the Heisman. Athlon Sports has him #2 in early Heisman running.

    He destroyed Texas and Connecticut already this year. He's completing 72% of his passes. He's run for 197 yards and 5 TDs, putting him at 8 TDs total.

    Last year he also beat Georgia Tech, Utah State and Boise State. Seems legit. I haven't done a deep dive on him or anything but he's one hell of a runner and he can spin the ball. Great build.

    This is a highlight film so you're not seeing the bad throws, but...dayum. He can spin it. Great velocity. And as a runner he's Tebow all over again.

    [video=youtube;3qIaMqdphvE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qIaMqdphvE[/video]
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I suggest skipping forward a bit during the parts where Ohio has the ball, so you can make this video shorter.

    But the video is worth watching if you want to see what I see in Marshall QB Rakeem Cato:

    [video=youtube;Lj5zBUqjov8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj5zBUqjov8[/video]
     
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  22. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    This throw tho at 16s, dang, that is all I have to see.


    [video=youtube_share;TtA3qEb9z1I]http://youtu.be/TtA3qEb9z1I?t=16s[/video]
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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  24. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    At some point, we gotta start calling Kevin Sumlin a QB guru. Between the QBs he's mentored at Oklahoma, Houston, and Texas A&M, he is putting out some amazing college QBs. Kenny Hill is looking like the top QB in the nation....too bad he's only a sophomore. 3 games, 1094 yds, 11 tds, 0 ints, 69.2% completions.
     
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  25. The Rev

    The Rev Totus Tuus Administrator Luxury Box Club Member

    While I do not have your eye for this, Chris, I love the intangibles this kid brings. His back story (IMO)makes him hungry to succeed. The coaches rave about his hard work and his leadership skills. I know the Heisman hype is Marshall created and will probably go nowhere but this kid is special 'cept for his height. What round is he projected at right now? Would love this Miami kid to come back to his hometown and make good.
     
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  26. jpep13

    jpep13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The 18th starting Qb since Marino retired. Not an exciting class this draft.
    Hogan I like .
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm with you. I have to admit, until recently I knew next to nothing about his background or intangibles. I just watched him on the field and appreciated everything he brought to the table that way. But now that I see the stuff about his intangibles, background, etc...I think it can't be coincidence.
     
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  28. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Trevor Siemian of NW impressed me. I watched him in one video they have at draft breakdown. I searched youtube for more, and interestingly Nu Gap has one video of him from last year. Dude is impressive. He is right now in my top 2-3 only prospects.

    Shane Carden of ECU had a sick game against Bud Foster's D. There are some concerns about his height, batted balls, and pocket presence, but he runs fast tempo, makes quick decisions, and delivers the ball well. The game is available this week on ESPN3. He was impressive, one of the best performances I've seen.
    Shane Carden reminds me of Russell Wilson, the way he plays, it's fast, it looks like he plays under pressure, but he makes good reads, good throws, runs, throws on the run, his throws are sometimes high but safe, always threatening, that kind of stuff.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I gotta catch up with Shane Carden. He's a really good player. The biggest problem really is his inability to drive the football to the perimeter of the field. He's limited in that department. But his accuracy is top notch.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think Shane Carden and Rakeem Cato are probably the top senior QBs in the class, and it might not be that close. Some will continue to like Bryce Petty, though.

    I haven't looked at Hutson Mason yet. That's a caveat.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Now that I mention Huston Mason I'm taking a look and here are some initial thoughts:

    1. Very focused on throwing catchable footballs which is a kind way of saying he's not putting heat on his throws. Not necessarily a sin, depending on the throw.

    2. Is he able to really DRIVE the throws that he needs to drive? Inconclusive evidence thus far on small sample.

    3. Pretty accurate but a lot of what he's doing is short.

    4. So much of what he does is the quick game and he really excels with it. He gets that football OUT of his hands and is generally making good decisions that hurt the defense. When I'm looking at a quarterback (or really any player) I try and think of key identifying traits that make a guy who he is, and this is most certainly Hutson Mason's key identifying trait. He gets that ball out. It belies intelligence and ability to read the field.

    5. Is he a play-maker? Inconclusive evidence on small sample.

    6. Can he handle pressure, reset and make throws? See #5.

    7. Feet VERY in tune with his eyes.

    Kind of thinking along the lines of a poor man's Shane Carden. But that could be harsh. His ability to get the ball out and make such great decisions so consistently is actually very intriguing, especially at the SEC level.
     
  32. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Yup, Shane Carden is in the zone right now. I'm taking Siemian off the list, he was horrible yesterday. I have not looked at Mason closely.
     
  33. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Is Jared Goff draft eligible? That kid has some arm talent..
     
  34. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Love all the Rakeem Cato talk. #CatoIn14 is the proper hastag they're using, Rev..haha

    Here is his website - http://www.catoin14.com/

    I'm so glad Tom Renaldi and ESPN did that feature on Cato. It's pretty well known.

    What people don't realize is how fiery he is. Football is HIS LIFE. He's constantly in the film room and around the field. It's all he wants and does.

    He was benched his freshman year because he would literally go crazy at teammates for screwing up. We though Marino was bad...nothing on Cato. He's since toned it down and become much better with his delivery, but he's still passionate and fiery as ever.

    I worry that his size will keep him down, but as for Marshall, he'll go down as our greatest QB ever if he leads us to an undefeated season. He's going to surpass all of Pennington's records without the help of Randy Moss - although he had Aaron Dobson & Gator Hoskins to help for 2-3 years.

    One thing to keep in mind is what team's are doing to try and take him away. They've started to bracket Tommy Shuler, his go-to-guy & BFF, in the slot. Basically, they're making him take shots down the field - very low percentage throws - and he's nailing them.

    Chris you said it great. The guy just makes plays.

    Rakeem Cato is a true son of Marshall. Go Herd!
     
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  35. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know this is a thread about QBs, but if you're watching Marshall games...watch out for A.J Leggett. He's a Sophomore Safety and a stud...going to be a draft prospect soon.
     
  36. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So so glad Tommy Shuler brought him to Marshall over FIU. Glad the U didn't keep this kid in Miami or FIU for that matter.

    He's brought Marshall football back. He along with Shuler.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's a very good point. He was over-reliant on Tommy Shuler in the past and this year defenses have really focused on taking that away. He's become an all-around better quarterback as a result.

    He's not just breaking Marshall records either. He's very much threatening RUSSELL WILSON'S record for most consecutive games with a touchdown pass.

    If you want more of my thoughts you can find them here:

    http://www.thephins.com/forums/show...cts-for-2015&p=2397029&viewfull=1#post2397029
     
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  38. UK Fins Fan

    UK Fins Fan Member

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    Tank for Jamies!
     
  39. UK Fins Fan

    UK Fins Fan Member

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    or try to win and go 6-10 at best.
     
  40. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I just don't see a dramatic weakness in Cook's game. I think he's a better quarterback than Cousins was at this stage and he has a stronger arm than Cousins. As far as athletic ability, he moves around the pocket well enough despite his lack of foot speed. I just don't see a real problem with the guy at this point and that's the same feeling I got from Wilson a couple of years ago. The height just didn't bother me since it would have affected him in college in a pro style offense. I think this guy is a better player than Nick Foles was coming out, a better player than Cousins and I think he'd be a great pick at 20-22 if Miami is there at the end of the year.
     

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